Episode Highlights

• How Matthew went from working in a paint store to working for Marvel…in 2 years
• The number one tool Matthew used to rapidly advance his career
• The number one mistake people make when they network
• The Philosophy Matthew lives by that directly led to his success despite any setbacks along the way
• How ‘career anxiety’ doesn’t ever leave, but how and why it can lessen over time
• What Matthew found out he was doing wrong when it came to networking, and what changes he made led to him landing him his dream job
• Exactly what you should be including in your outreach emails in order to get a response (and therefore useful guidance, mentor, or job)
• What quality you should have that makes you more hireable than others (even if they have a higher skill set)
• What you can do at work that makes you stand out above the rest

Useful Links

• Matthew’s Facebook page
• Marvel
• How to Find the Right Type of Mentor For You (and When You Should Seek the Best)
• How to Go From Cold Contact to Your Ideal Mentor In Seven Simple Steps
• IMDbPro for Networking: The 10 Features That Will Take Your Outreach to a New Level

About Guest

Matthew Farrugia is the son of a single mother, he has never been afraid of trying, falling down, and getting back up. To quote his grandfather; “where there is a will, there is a way.” He grew to love editing from mentorship of his high school video communications teacher, Mrs. Spatt who pushed him to pursue a career in editing. After high school, Matthew went to a small film school in San Diego, where he learned the value of networking and how it can lead him to his goals. He used to go to LA to start attending meetups while living in San Diego, all of this without having a car.

Once he moved to LA, it took a year of working at a paint store and constantly networking to get his foot in the door, often times the door slammed on his foot. But each one drove him to learn more, network more, and understand what it takes not just to survive but to thrive. In his first ever Post PA position on an indie feature, the assistant editor told him “If I have a choice between someone who knows Avid but is a complete d*ck and someone who doesn’t know jack but is fun to be around, I am going with the second guy every time. I can teach you how to be an assistant editor. I can’t teach you how not to be a d*ck” and this saying was the golden rule Matthew has lived by. He still hasn’t accomplished all of his goals but for only working in the industry for 3 years, he has made incredible progress.

Facebook, Click to visit our guest’s website

Transcript

Zack Arnold: My guest today is Matthew Farrugia, who's an assistant editor in Hollywood, whose recent two projects are both so high profile and high security, I literally cannot even name them yet. But hint, they are for Apple plus and Marvel. What is crazy is that despite his young age, and more impressively his extremely short amount of time in the industry, Matthew went from working in a paint store, literally working in paint store, to landing his dream job working for Marvel in just short of two years. After becoming a student of my OptimizerCoaching and Mentorship Program, Matthew quickly learned the fundamental mistakes that he was making with his cold outreach that were leading to zero success. Let's just say that once he learned how to become a networking ninja, the game changed. Whether you have been in the industry for two years or 20, or even more, you have most likely experienced the frustrating bridge between where you are now and where you want to be next. And inevitably, you're not going to bridge that gap alone, you're either going to need a mentor and advocate or ideally both. If you are tired of writing cold outreach emails that do not get responses, or at least useful ones, this conversation is going to illuminate what it is specifically that you might be getting wrong, and more importantly, how to do outreach the right way. My interview with Matthew is going to cover the exact cold outreach email networking steps that he learned in the Optimizer program that took him from working in a paint store to as he calls it, working jobs that he thought were going to be his end game. And yes, pun intended Marvel fans. You're going to learn what a great outreach message should consist of, how to write a great follow up message, and by the way, the magic is in the follow up, and you're also going to learn the key mindset shifts that it takes to turn your failures into wins so you can make the most out of every moment in your career. All right, so without further ado, here's my conversation with Matthew Farrugia. To access the show notes for this episode with all the bonus links and resources discussed today. As well as to subscribe, leave a review and more simply visit zackarnold.com/episode192. I am here today with Matthew Farrugia, who is a students and might I say a star students from my Optimizer Coaching and Mentorship community. He is a 25 year old assistant editor originally from New York who's now in LA transplant you recently have worked on too soon to be released shows which we have to be super secret about because we're not allowed to say anything. But we can at least say that you are working for both Marvel and Apple TV on too soon to be released shows as I said, and some of your other recent credits include Rise for Disney plus, Den of Thieves, Million Dollar Listing, Below Deck and starting out as a PA way back in the day on The Bachelorette. So number one, Matthew, it has been a long time coming. And you and I have been talking in the background about having this conversation and sharing your story. So first of all, thank you for taking the time given how busy you are working your dream job for Marvel's to be here with me today.

Matthew Farrugia: Well, it's not a problem at all, you know, actually one of my like, micro goals for my career was being on your podcast as a guest. So this is I'm checking something off the bucket list for me.

Zack Arnold: I love it. Well, that that warms my heart. I didn't even know that that was the case. But I love the fact that I can allow you to check that off your bucket list. And speaking of buckets, that's actually where I want to start the conversation, which is that looking at your credit list, knowing you're only 25. And you've only been in the industry for a few years, this credit list is very, very impressive. What's even more impressive, however, is that the first year out of college, you were working at a paint store, I believe Yeah. So you've actually done everything on the list that I talked about not even in three or four years, you've done it in essentially two years. So let's rewind, because I want people to understand how you could go from going to some little small college in San Diego, to working in a paint store to working for Marvel in a span of just a couple of years. So go back to the beginning of whatever you believe is your origin story.

Matthew Farrugia: Oh, geez. Um, you know, I think for me, the story really starts with high school. Actually, I've I've always known that I wanted to make movies I've always known I want to tell stories. That's always been my thing. And film was always the medium I used. And I was lucky enough in high school that a video call a video communications course. And when I was there, no like middle school. I always like Oh, I like writing. So I want to be a screenwriter that was always like, that wasn't my one track mind. And in high school sophomore year, my teacher Mrs. spatch. She gave. She gave an assignment and the assignment was, you know, like looking up career careers in film and television. And she told me she pulled me aside she told me she was like, Hey, Matt, you're really good editor. I like What do you do when you know, like you're editing? I think you should look into like the editor. I was like, mishpat. That's very kind of you. But I'm going to be a screenwriter. So I'm going to do that one. And then we kind of went back and forth. And she told me she was like, if you don't, she's like, you can do both. She's like, if you don't do editing, though, I'm going to fail you for this assignment. I was like, This is so unfair, you're making me do the assignment twice. And I was like, fine, whatever, I'm gonna prove you, right? That like this is like, like, what's meant for me? And I did the research on being an editor. And might I say, like, the research I did was like, wrong. Like now that I'm actually in the industry. It's like, wrong. But I did the research. And it was like, wow, this is exactly this is putting together these puzzle pieces of footage to make a story. That's exactly what I wanted. And she wasn't she was right. And I was like, editor editing, that's exactly why I need to go. And from there, I became one track minded again, just, you know, get into editing. And that's how I got into college, I selected my college because it, you could start editing immediately, there was no like, Oh, you have two years, oh, you will be doing that by your second, third. Fourth year, I was like, no, like, you can just edit start a go. Um, I also give me very good scholarship, which did impact my decision. But what I realized from college was the only way I get onto what I want to do is from networking. So I started networking, I joined a lot of Facebook groups, and I was like, Hey, I'm a complete newbie. Can someone help me, literally, and that was my beginning of my taste of like, what the community of post production is like, it's a very welcoming community, I have people, I still have people on my Facebook friends list that, you know, I'll occasionally talk to and it's like, they were literally there from the beginning. And I used to go up to LA, I didn't even have a car, I'd find a way to get myself to LA and go to like, you know, bcpc meetups, system editor, meetups classes. And when I finally moved up to LA, well, obviously everyone has to have a job, you know, everyone needs a source of income. I was working at a paint store for the first full year of being in Los Angeles. And, you know, that was that was rough. I mean, because it's like, everyone knows that things take time, you know, you gotta plant the seed and wait for it to grow. But I guess everyone's kind of, you know, at least for me, at least I know, I expected things to take off a lot sooner. I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna be here for a couple of months. And then it was like, a year later, I'm like, I'm still here. What am I doing? And then man, once things took off, they really started taking off. So I gotta say,

Zack Arnold: Well, I will, I will make it very clear to the audience that I did not pay you in advance beforehand, to say that networking is important, and was the number one tool that got you to where you are. But we're going to talk a lot more about networking, and all the strategies that you and I worked through and that you implemented. But it's I find it actually very rare. It first of all, it's rare in general. But secondly, it's incredibly rare for somebody at the age of the worth of the time, which is still in college, to recognize that networking is important. Because the vast majority of students, if not all of them that I've ever known, both in my experience students that I've worked with in this program, and you can tell me if you agree, almost everybody thinks that their skill alone is going to get them where they want to get, I'm going to be the next director, I'm going to be the next writer, I'm going to be the next great editor. And they just get buried in the craft, which by the way is great, especially earlier in your career, but they often missed a component of people actually need to know I'm awesome at what I do. So what made you realize that networking was so important, so early,

Matthew Farrugia: actually was a friend of mine, a friend of mine, he was moving to production. And we're doing a production on San Diego. And he got on, you know, not through the school completely by himself. And he ended up making this connection with this system director that they just clicked you know, they're just like that. And it was like, oh, yeah, like this. This guy. He's talking about getting me a job up in LA blah, blah, blah. And this is all it wasn't like the first couple months of college and I'm like, I was roommates with him. i My mind is being blown like if he's doing this for production work. Why am I not doing this for post production work? That makes zero sense. So I was like, so I literally I went on Facebook, and I searched editors then I I searched assistant editors, and like post production and just like my, that's where I found all the groups. And then that's it. That was the beginning of like, okay, how do you how do you network? How do you get into networking? And I'll say this, and this is like, you know, one of my big quotes, I think I'm a better networker than I am assistant editor, I'm still learning how to be an assistant editor. And honestly, I've been networking for longer than I've been assistant editing, you know, like, so I would definitely say that the only reason I've gotten to where I'm at right now, it's not even my skill. It's my networking.

Zack Arnold: Yeah. And clearly, you have, you've learned a lot and come a long way when it comes to networking skill on what it is that you've been able to leverage in the very, very short amount of time that you have done what you've done in the industry. And I know that feeling of I feel like I should be doing this faster. Why am I still at the play at this specific place? Why is it not happening? I think that happens to a lot of people. But I also think it very specifically happens to people that know exactly what they want to do. There aren't a lot of us, but I was very similar to you. And that by college, I already knew that I was going to be an editor. So for all the student film projects, everybody was fighting over, I want to direct I want to drink. Alright, I'll be the writer there. Like, nobody wants to edit. I'll let it I'll do it. I'll do it. Right. I just wanted to cut stuff. And I wanted to learn the craft. And I think that having that clarity provides more urgency where you just want to make it happen faster. So I would guess and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but the fact that you really knew what you wanted to do and had that level of clarity is why it probably felt like for ever sitting in a paint store.

Matthew Farrugia: Oh, yeah. Oh, 100 110%. I mean, you know, the paint store was not because I knew it was a temporary thing. And I want I hungered for getting in the post even as opposed to a for me, it's like all of it was just that world. And it you know, it's not, it's not that like, you know, it was like, oh, like you're out here for the thrill I once told. I once told my ex girlfriend's parents, I yeah, I made beginning of the film industry. But if you're expecting me to be, you know, to get famous, like, I'm in the wrong spot for that, you know, editors are the unseen talent behind everything. So it was never about, you know, like, glory, it was always about like, this is where I fit in. This is where I belong. And this is where I have to go. Because I couldn't imagine doing anything else. I really couldn't. You know, it's, there are some times where it's like, you know, I'm sure you've been there to where it's like, man, work is intense. And then you stop. You're like, Man, I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else, though.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, that's basically exactly where I am at this moment. Like right before you and I recorded this conversation, I was looking at full screen calendar, as I often do, staring at my calendar, and just saying to myself, How in the world am I going to get all this stuff done? By the time I launched the coaching program in September, a million and a half problems that need to be solved. And I'm like, there's just there's nothing I would rather be doing right now than solving these problems. So I can I can definitely relate to that feeling. What I'm curious about now, is that you're working at the paint store. And there's this urgency, and there's this impatience, and I've been here forever. But that's not enough. People think that just Well, I put in my time, and it should be happening for me. Now. That's not enough to do it. So what was the difference for you that got your foot in the door?

Matthew Farrugia: Networking, I got my first long term post pa position. And because of a friend, that this is one thing I think that people are mistaken about when it comes to networking is that many people are like, Oh, I love the Mandalorian. I'm going to look at the editor for Mandalorian, the head editor, I'm gonna look at the post supervisor and try and contact them. The friend that got me my first post pa position. She was a post PA on something else. And the only reason why she was able, you know, like, Hey, I know this was because they actually offered her the job and she wasn't able to do it. Because she was working somewhere else. And because I knew what post PA and they were like, Hey, I know someone else who's trying to become a post PA. I got an interview. And one thing I'm gonna say about the industry when in interviews is I still hate interviews.

Zack Arnold: I think everybody listening probably agrees with you right now.

Matthew Farrugia: I cannot stand interviews, because it's always the ones that you walk away from the most excited the most hyped are the ones you never get. And the ones that you have absolutely like like, oh, that's that's going nowhere. That's the ones that send you the email like that night. Oh, by the way, when are you ready to start? And you're just like, whoa, wait, I Uh, I went to the bar got a beer because I was sad, like, what's going on?

Zack Arnold: So then the friend that was offered a post VA position that wasn't available that referred you, that was somebody that you found specifically through the networking process through Facebook and whatnot, not somebody that you knew previously,

Matthew Farrugia: um, that was somebody that so I was a part of the ACE, mentorship, I wasn't selected to be the ace intern. But I, I was an applicant. And you know, even if you're an applicant, there's certain things that you do. And a bunch of us just kind of grouped together were a bunch of applicants that didn't get selected, we all just kind of grouped together. And there's still some of my closest friends that are here in LA, I still hang out with them, like all the time. And one of my friends, she was the one that she wasn't applicant. And she's the one that actually offered it to me. She was like, hey, like, this is what's going on. It was a group chat. She was like, anyone want to post pa position? And I'm like at the paint store? Yes. Yes, please, my resume. Here you go.

Zack Arnold: What I love about this portion of the story is the fact that you were able to reframe what most people would consider a failure into a success. Because many people that I've talked to, in the past, myself included, have been in positions where they have been applicants for something as prestigious as the ACE internship and they don't get it. Well, I failed, or there's this job opportunity. I didn't get it, I failed, but you said, Well, I didn't get it. I'm not the ACE intern, but I met some cool people, and I'm gonna stay in touch with them. And that's what literally got you outside of the paint store and into the world of post production,

Matthew Farrugia: that not only got me outside of the paint store, and as opposed to that I got me my first unscripted assistant editor position as well, I got that from that same group chat. And that what you said, is actually something that I really want to nail home. One of the biggest things is people, a lot of people, like my friends, I see this, even with my family outside of post production, I look at every interview is like, okay, what can I get out of this? And not if I'm like, oh, like, Oh, give me give me give me sense, like, Okay, I had an interview with somebody that worked on The Walking Dead. I have their email, I have a direct way to contact them. They know my name. My last name stands out, people generally don't forget it. You know, so I have, I can show you a list. I have a list. And if I am on this list, there's a bunch of people that I was, oh, how do you know this person? Oh, I interviewed for a post PA or an assistant editor position. And they didn't accept me. And I just asked, I was like, Hey, can I keep in touch with you? Like, you've worked on a lot of cool stuff, you continue to work on cool stuff. I just want to you know, stay on your radar. And that's, you know, and I think I got that and you might laugh at this. But um, growing up, I was really into like, you know, like, cartoons and anime and all that. And there was this one anime Naruto, I'm actually wearing a shirt for it. People were just listening can't see that, but. And there was just one minor character named Colin crow. And he got beat up by one of the villains. And when he's at the hospital, like all the main characters are there. And they say, they're like, Do you know who it was or anything and conquer reveals he actually ripped off a piece of their clothing. So it has their scent so they can track them. And one of the one of the main characters says, and I've, for some reason, I'm like, 10 years old and stuck with me, stuck to me like glue. He's like, That's what makes a real warrior is finding in the face of defeat, you still find a victory. And I'm like, 10 years old, that blew my mind. I'm like, wide eyed looking at the screen like, Whoa, this is a minor character. This is a minor, A minor character from like, an anime. And I'm like, man, and that's what this says one of the philosophies I've lived my life on. In the face of every defeat, you got to look for a victory. And even if it's like, Hey, can I keep in touch with you? Even if you get an interview, like feedback, I've done that before. It's like, hey, as my Interviewer What could I have done better? I went out and got you know, this is back when people were you know, before COVID. You know, things are a bit easier to meet people. I asked one of the ladies that interviewed me, I was like, What can I do better next time. So when I interview with someone else, I do better and she like a whole laundry list. She was like, it's not that you did anything bad, but this stuff would have made you stand out. Like man, I wish I knew that. But now I do. And there's always going to be another job interview. I can't tell you how many interviews for the greatest show on earth like men. If I got this show, it would be insane. It would be crazy how many interviews I had, I didn't get it. And, I mean, it's rough, anyone ended up this is not just a posting is any industry, it's rough to have an interview and you not get, especially when he really wanted it. But each one, it's like, you've got to look at it. And you got to be like this. Will this will happen again. There will be another interview, you know, there there, it will be for something cooler. The stuff that I'm that I have worked on and I am working on. I mean, to tell you truth, Zack, I thought this was endgame stuff, I thought I was gonna you know, 2030 years down the road, I'd be able to work on this stuff. And everything happens for a reason you know, me, there's always a reason why you didn't get that job, then that's because the next interview that you already know how to tackle is coming. And that's the job,

Zack Arnold: man, I love it. You're you're wise well beyond your years, very rarely do I have somebody that will come to me at your level of experience or your age that understands the value of taking a defeat and turning into a victory. I think that's, that's such a, I have all the meta skills and meta mindsets. As you know, that's something that I preach over and over and over in the program is that failure is simply feedback. And the reason that I feel that I can be successful, whatever it is that I choose to do, is because I fail faster than anybody else is willing to fail. I will just fail over and over and over. And I have hours and hours and hours of B roll for anybody that wants to watch me failing for the last four years at American Ninja Warrior. But it makes me better. And it's not a matter of well, I failed. I am a failure. I can't do this. It's now I know what I need to figure out next. And so you did you did an interview, it didn't work out. And you said Alright, great. This didn't work out. But how do I do a better next time? That is such a key mindset to be successful at anything. So very wise beyond your years. However, oh, go ahead.

Matthew Farrugia: Oh, I was just going to add something that like this isn't just interviews, I'm going to tell a personal story. I got laid off from my second AE job. And I can't tell you how terrible I felt. Second Age, I suppose because the first one I did really well and knocked out of the park. The only reason I couldn't go back because they didn't have anything for me. Second, when I went into it, I was going gung ho, I thought I got it. I end up getting laid off. I've pretty sure I actually talked to you about this when that happened.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, this did happen after you and I met we haven't gotten to the point in the story where we connected. But yes, you and I knew each other at this point. And I remember doing several hot seats to help you kind of work through that process. Because, as you already know, but maybe anybody that listens, people will often say, Oh, are you a career coach now? And I'm like, No, I'm more of a career therapist. So there you know, there were some some therapy sessions to work through some of both of the the grief and the fear and the anxiety that that comes from losing a job or choosing the wrong one or being in a bad situation. I definitely remember the darker times for sure.

Matthew Farrugia: Oh, yeah. So exactly. I got laid off. And I got a position that worked me less hours. And I worked from home, like a week later. And I'm like, Man, things work out. And that's why I've wanted to it's not it's not just job interviews, you have to have that mentality with it's literally everything. With your career, if you get laid off. There's something better literally right down the road, you just gotta we'll walk to it. You know, let's go around the block. You're there.

Zack Arnold: Yep. So it's clear that you have not gotten where you are. Because you are some savant with Avid Media Composer or Adobe Premiere or anything else. But you've decided that I want to prioritize networking as a skill that I want to learn, which brought you to me, roughly, and almost exactly two years ago. Now, you probably didn't even realize that but you and I had our first 30 minute intro get to know each other call almost exactly two years ago today. I didn't. I did not know that. I didn't know honestly. Yes. So I wanted to to remind you of those days, because when you came to me, you were a very, very different person. And you had set you had used a term that I never heard before that I now actually use a lot because you mentioned it on our first call. You said that I am experiencing career anxiety. I'd never heard it put that way before. Like that's a really good way to put it in mind you being two years ago, this was right at the height of COVID when things were just kind of starting to open up a little bit. But it was only like six months in and we still really didn't have any sense of what the future is going to be. And you came to me saying that I have a lot of career anxiety, and I'm not really sure what my next steps are. But And it's funny, you talked about this idea of like the end game was getting to projects like you're on now, you had said that you know the goal is maybe in three to five years, I can become a union assistant editor and dream jobs someday Marvel films, DC films, etc, etc. So rewinding two years to this call if I had said, this is where you'd be, you would have been, like, never gonna happen.

Matthew Farrugia: Yeah, I would have told you Yeah, I'm if the stars align and I win the jackpot, like, I'm gonna go buy a lottery ticket right now you know what I like to to you know, and I think of where I was two years ago, because I remember the career I mean, I, you know, stuff like that doesn't ever really go away. But it changes like it changes with you. So I was I still have the career anxiety. But it is much more different now. It is. But I mean, back then I was scared of being stuck. I was scared of being pigeon holed. I was scared of. I was scared. I was not being good. You know, I was, I can't do it. You know, it was like, Forget forget high end scripted. Forget. Top Warner Brothers top. Hulu, Netflix, Disney plus shows. I'm out here. I'd be lucky to work on a hallmark film. Me I mean, like, honestly. But yeah, so the career anxiety was definitely there. And it still does stick around. Because now it's like, Am I doing good enough to stay in this world? I'm sure you know a lot about that from everything you worked on. But like, you get this new career anxieties? Or it's like I have to always be improving, always getting faster? Because I mean, you don't want to get left behind?

Zack Arnold: Absolutely not. And that is a constantly evolving process where in this industry, it's always about what have you done lately? That what have you done, but what have you done lately? And that's what can generate a lot of that career anxiety. And what I've seen from my perspective with you, is that I think, of course, the anxiety is not going to go away, I still have career anxiety, like it's never going to completely go away. But the difference was that there was a lot of uncertainty about what does this even look like? What is the path? Is this even possible for somebody like me versus now you have all the tools, you know, the steps? And yeah, some things are unknown, but you have a lot more control of your situation.

Matthew Farrugia: That's actually a great way of putting it. So yeah, back two years ago, I did not like everything was in a thick fog. I felt like I was walking around now. The yellow brick road is there. I just gotta make sure I stay on it. And really, I think any like, I believe anyone can go on, like the yellow brick road. I genuinely it's like if you just follow advice, follow your gut. And just stay true to like your mindset, if your mindset is I want to work on through a horror movie is always be moving towards that.

Zack Arnold: So speaking of anxiety, one thing that I want to make very clear to everybody this listening is that you and I say this with all the love in the world, you are not born with some innate ability to network better than everybody else. And you are not sending out amazing outreach messages. And to be perfectly honest, your networking skills needed a whole lot of work. So when you came to me, one of the biggest pieces of anxiety was I just, I hate sending the emails, I send them. And a week later, I didn't get a response. And I'm rereading, it's like, Oh, my God, I must have offended them or, like so. So talk to me about before we learned all these techniques, how it felt to have to send these cold messages for you,

Matthew Farrugia: man before sending before talking with you for doing the answers. Of course, it was I mean, anxiety is just the word to say, you know, I would literally I would read an email a bazillion times, I would send it and then I would read it again. And if they don't respond in three days, I'm freaking out. I am. I am like, This is it. They don't like me this person was the golden ticket. And without them, like, my let's go back to the paint store. That was the mindset I had. And I mean, it kept me awake at night.

Zack Arnold: So after working together for a while, what did you realize were some of your fundamental mistakes with your outreach. I remember that I'm curious if you remember them, because just for the record, you're really good at this now. And the reason you got where we are, which we're going to talk a little bit more about a little bit later are the actual steps to go from this person to the response to the call to sitting in the chair that you are at this moment. But when you first started workshopping with me, I was empathetic and I had all the compassion in the world, but I was also very brutal. What was some of my feedback about the problems that you used to have with your outreach

Matthew Farrugia: for me I, there were two first off is, you know, and like you said, this is I did a lot, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't a sniper, I was shot gunning it. They were kind of generic. They were, oh, hey, I love what you did. Can I get it? You know, like, Can I pick your brain? Or can I, uh, you know, be your best buddy. And that kind of relates back to not back. But the second one, which I think was my biggest issue was I would send outreach, emails, texts, whatever, like a pen pal. And that was my biggest problem. And that's still to this day. I always like I'm, I don't even want to show you the drafts from my email, because we don't have enough time. But there are emails that I've written. And I just haven't sent because I'm, I'm being a pen pal.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, um, you have a very good memory, because the if I were to crystallize it in a single sentence, it was these two exact problems. I'm fanboying. And I'm trying to be somebody's email Pankow, which still the better approach, as opposed to, Hey, my name is Matthew Firoozeh. I'm currently available for any assistant editing opportunities, my resume is attached for your reference. And people think Zach's just making this up. Trust me, I am not making this up, I have an entire folder that I collect of bad outreach where people do this. And I had one of my students who I helped move from being an assistant editor to an editor on a very high profile Netflix show. And she sent me a message a week ago with a screenshot of that exact message. And she said, I get it. Now I'm starting to get these messages. And they're just I just feel dirty when I get them. And it was from somebody that she knew. And she was just feel she felt like she was being used. So to me, those are kind of the bottom of the barrel outreach messages where you only hear from somebody, when they need something, you weren't doing that you're kind of doing the polar opposite, which is, you are so awesome. And I love to know how you did this thing and that thing, and the other thing, and hey, where do you eat breakfast on Saturdays? It's like, what?

Matthew Farrugia: Yeah, and with real quick, the screenshots, I actually have gotten a couple of those as well. From random strangers. I have no idea alumni from my school. And I always tell them, like, hey, like, let me try and educate you real quick. This is not how you do it, because you're not gonna get anywhere. And I don't know if you've had this experience, but some people do not take that very well.

Zack Arnold: Yes, oh, I definitely had that experience. Because what I often do not always, but more often than not, if I can tell that somebody's intentions are good, I'll respond to their bad outreach. And I'll just let them know, like, hey, I'm interested in helping you but we need to come up with a better way with your approach because your approach is not working. And the ones like I there's one person I actually talked about in my networking ninja workshop that I do, where I teach all this stuff in like three hours. But I had one person where they sent me a cold Facebook message, hey, Zack would love to take you out to coffee to pick your brain word for word. I'm like, doesn't get any worse than that. But I looked him up. I'm like, this seems like a good guy. This seems like somebody that has good intentions and just doesn't know how the game works. So I responded back and I said, going to be honest, really not a good approach. However, I want to help you through this, why don't you try sending me your first message to me again, but do the following things. Two weeks later, he and I were having lunch together one on one was a fantastic lunch. And a year later, through just going back and forth via email. He never even joined the program. He moved from being a tech and an Apple Store to having his dream job as an assistant editor for a major trailer company. Nice. And his first outreach sucked. So the point is, and people say this a lot like oh, well, that's mean that you don't respond. Or it's mean that you know, you call them out. It's like, I do it. It's essentially tough love. If I know their intentions are good, and they don't want to just use me. I'll point it out. But it's amazing how many people think that this approach works. It does not work. Stop doing it.

Matthew Farrugia: It does not work. And it's yeah, it's it's weird. It's weird to get those kind of messages and you're just like, I don't know, you and you know, especially like the film industry is so word of mouth, and it's so like, Oh yeah, I'm vouching for this guy. And, like, Give me something to believe in us. You know?

Zack Arnold: Alright, so we've talked about a few things that don't work. We've talked about how your approach was, at best getting you a couple of messages from people you admire that said, thanks so much for the kind words. Best of luck, buddy. That was kind of the the best case scenario getting a lot of non answers. What did you learn that fundamentally shifted your mindset about networking and your ability to send outreach that gets results.

Matthew Farrugia: So the guy I workshopped with you. He he put it very, very simple. He's like, man, you want full FBI on me? And it's true, you have to know. Just know stuff about them. And when you send that email, you actually know the person you're talking to, like, obviously, you're not gonna know their birthday. Even if you did, you don't want to say that. You know,

Zack Arnold: thanks to Facebook, it's not even that creepy anymore. But yeah, I get your point.

Matthew Farrugia: Like, you know, know, know, what they've done, know, how long you know, stuff like that. And then send it directly like, Hey, this is exactly what I'm asking of you. Can you help me, you have to be direct you, you can't sit here and play around with the subject, but like, Hey, I'm asking for your time, you have to offer them some sort of value. Like, you know, what you what you done on the Incredible Hulk was amazing. You know, I love the scene, where Bruce Banner spilled his coffee all over the floor, I thought it was so funny. Something like that. I'm just kind of spitballing off the top of my head. But offer them value. Offer them like, Hey, this is why I should reach out to some, this is why I should respond to this guy, or girl. You know, this is why I should respond to them and ask something direct like, hey, you know, even if it's like, you know, like, the one I use is like, you know, Can I know your story? Like, how did you get to where you're at? Stuff like that?

Zack Arnold: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of good stuff in there that I want to just clarify and dig into the first of which, as you know, now is that you must lead with value. And the value can't be something that you look up on IMDb in three minutes. Like you said, I was like, Hey, I loved the show. Right? It demonstrates I've done my homework. And I actually understand the work that you contributed. And here's the impact that it had on me, that's a really, really big part of this. It's not just some generic, you know, attaboy, it's more you did this thing, you made these choices, here's the impact that it had on me. And I love you didn't even didn't even tell me this part of the story. But that he said, You went full FBI at me, I'm totally going to steal that. Remember that for future workshops and sessions. But like the joke that I always tell people is that you want to do your homework, but you know, don't become a cyber stalker. That's very, very fine line before between, I've done my homework, and I'm a cyber stalker, and you didn't cross that line. But he was kind of alluding to the fact that you went full FBI because nobody does that. So this person received an outreach message from a total stranger that stood out because it wasn't the same generic template. It was, wow, this person really put time into learning more about me and my work, the least I can do at this point is read the rest of their message, not the least that I can do is respond. That's where people get stuck. Well, I provided you value, I earned a response. No, you didn't. You're in the right for me to read the rest of your message. The next thing that I remember telling you and I want you alluded to this, and I want to dig into a deeper, because this is kind of the foundation of my entire system. And this is one of the slides that I have in my workshop, and I tell my students that you need to print this out 27 by 41, poster style, frame it and put it above your workspace. It is not that people don't want to help you. It's that people don't know how to help you. And that was one of your biggest challenges. I would read your outreach from the perspective of the person receiving it, I'd say, What do you want? I don't know what you want from me. Right? You said you said nice things. But it becomes a transaction it becomes this was awesome. Thanks for letting me know, Matthew, best of luck, versus turning into the beginning of a relationship. So what did you start to learn about how to tell your story? So people understood how to help you?

Matthew Farrugia: I would say you explain where you're at by Hey, so I'm currently unscripted assistant editor. I want to transition over to scripted. What's something that a second assistant editor would do? Or would know, that would get them hired? You know, it's stuff like it's like, always, like, how did you get on? You know, like, how did you get on this big Warner Brothers film? How did you do that? Like, like, you know, like, food, you know? And then oh, well, you know, as you like, when you're direct when you're to the point. And when you let them know where you're at. Like, like, I'm at a I want to go to B if you can do that. That's half the battle right there. I mean, and maybe even more than half you know, we got

Zack Arnold: Oh, it takes way, way, way more than half the battle. It's the entire battle. Because ultimately, if they don't know how to help you, even if it was a nice message, nothing's going to come from it, or at best is going to be a very simple response. You're like, well, I got a response. But now what? And like you said, it's very clear where you say, this is where I am now. This is where I'm going next. And here's the knowledge gap. This is where I'm stuck or this is what I don't know or this is where I'm seeking Some advice or a guide, or whatever. But one of the key things that you mentioned, which is another area where I feel so many people get stuck, is it wasn't just tell me what to do. It was, what did you do in the situation? Remember where we talked about the expert approach versus the journalist approach? Where it's like, you're the expert, tell me what to do with my life. Most people are like, I don't know what to tell you to do. I barely got my own life figured out. How can I give you life advice, right? Like I've, I've made a living out of giving people advice. And I still feel that way. It's like, who am I going to tell you what to do? Even though it's not what I do for a living. But most people feel uncomfortable with that. But everybody knows their own story. So you've learned how to talk to people about their story such that it applies to yours, and you can get something from it.

Matthew Farrugia: Yes. And that is really like that's, that's the goal. That's the key. That's how you make the Connect, because then it's because then they talk to you then again, just as invested in you as you are with them. My my mentor, the one that I connected because of you because you know, because of you and the whole team. I mean, I still talk to him. I still I message him and he not like every scripted show that I've been on. He's got me on. This is all like, we actually still have not met, which is the craziest thing for me. I, I worked with an editor that knew him. She showed me a picture of him. I didn't actually even know what he looked like. I was like, I've never actually seen his face. What does he look like? And she was like, What's you haven't seen his face?

Zack Arnold: I didn't even know that part of the story. That's amazing.

Matthew Farrugia: Well, that's like the that's a recent thing that's actually happened. She's like you you've never even seen his face. I'm like, I've never met him. But like him, and I talked like, oh, like he's someone you know, like the whole pen pal thing. You get into that as you go on. Because then it's like, Oh, it's my, it's my buddy met, of course, I'm gonna respond to his text. What's up, man, how you doing? And one piece of advice I just want to give everyone listening is this is something that like, you know, that kind of like alluded to, with, like, the whole anxiety thing. And now that I'm working, especially in like high end scripted, I can tell you this is so true. I, once before, when I sent an email, and someone responded a couple days, I was scared, I was hurt. I was scared. I was like, man, they don't like me. The fact of the matter is, if they're currently working right now, they got your email, you're on their list of respond, as long as it's a good like outreach email, you're on their list of people to respond to, they're just so busy. And like, that's something that like, you know, that comes from, like, you know, this experience of actually working in the industry, I understand that now. Someone sent me an outreach, email, good outreach, emails, a good guy, and talking to him for a while. And like, he sends it to me like a week ago. And like, I just responded like yesterday. And I was like, I am so sorry, I feel so bad.

Zack Arnold: And I don't think you you you don't need to be apologizing for anything to go less than a week to send a message. I mean, my lord, I have outreach messages that are perfect. Like people go through my ultimate guides, they do step by step by step they sent the perfect outreach, I haven't responded in a month and a half, has nothing to do with the outreach, it has to do with like, I have so many messages in my inbox. And if my full time job or answering emails, I'd probably be able to keep up and I say probably, and that's what helped from an assistant. But email just is not my number one priority, even though it's funny, because email is now one of the foundations of what I teach people how to communicate with, but it's just not something that I prioritize all day every day. And if you do creative work, whether you're an assistant editor, or an editor or a composer, especially directors, producers, people on set, you might not hear from them for weeks. So the assumption that you show up in their inbox, and within days, your dual response, gotta get that out of your head. However, you also can't give up and you must have a follow up system, such that you can gently nudge them at the right time to elicit that eventual response, which of course is something that you and I also workshop extensively is what does that look like? So you're not being a pest, but at the end of the day, you just gently remind them in a very polite way I'm still here.

Matthew Farrugia: Yes. And it's that follow up email that makes the I think makes the difference. Because when you send that follow up email, it's like, I think is the two weeks you say is generally two weeks, that two weeks, hey, no pressure, just want to see how you're doing what's you know, you know, just be like, you know, I know things are busy. That one you can be a little bit more passive with but if you do it right, it's like a rite kind of passage. You get the response and that's what happened with you know, the guy that you that you helped me connect with. It was actually the thought I sent a foul. up two weeks later, and that's what he responded to. And he was like, Dude, I'm so sorry, I didn't respond to you like today, you know, he's like, dude, like, I'm so sorry. Like, let's hop on the phone. And I mean, you know how it went from there, Zack,

Zack Arnold: I do. I know how it went. But I want to make sure that people listening know how it went. Because so what I want to do is I want to connect the dots. So people can see that even though everybody's path is different. The formula is essentially the same. I see this happen literally every day now with my students, where yes, the paths are different. And the timeline is different. But it's essentially the same beats over and over and over. So step one, you write an outreach message to, we don't need to mention who the person is, but you know, a high end editor working in animated features and the world that you want to get into. Yeah, write them a message, the message was not good. You and I workshop that we made it way, way better to eliminate all these issues of being an email Pankow and just kind of fanboying. And instead, like, you know, I want to reach out to you as a professional in the same world. And there's a few things that I wanted to ask, they did not respond. And then two weeks later, we use the follow up formula that I taught you. And I always tell people, the magic is in the follow up, it's never about the initial message, the magic is in the follow up. So had you not sent the follow up. The rest of the story might not even exist, but knowing you would have found another way. But you get the follow up message. And I want to make this part very, very clear. Did you ask to get on a call?

Matthew Farrugia: No, I did not. I was shocked. I I don't even think I waited for the Wednesday that was our class, I think I sent you a message immediately. I was like Zack, he wants to call. But

Zack Arnold: I get messages all the time where people say, Oh, my God, I sent the outreach message. And they want to have a call with me. And nobody understands why. And the reason is, if you're very clear about how somebody can help you, and they see the need, and they know that they can fill that need, they want to, I really believe that by and large, most of the people in this industry want to help other people succeed. Not everybody, there are douchebags we do live in work in Hollywood, there are people that see this as a zero sum game, which means that if I help you, you're going to take my jobs that does exist, but it's way less prevalent than people think that it is. But by and large, if you make it very clear, where I need support, and this person can provide that support, they want to do it, and nine times out of 10 if you formulate your ask and just the right way, which you did, it almost always gets the response. You know what I would love to answer your question, so much easier to just get on a call rather than sending an email. I mean, it happens every single week.

Matthew Farrugia: And it really, you know, it's, I sent the follow up. And him and I, we had the call, we talked for 45 minutes, and at the end of it. And the biggest thing is to be yourself, you know, the person you reach out to have it actually, it's not just like, Oh, I'm not really a Star Wars person. But the Mandalorian was a big show. So I want to reach out to the Mandalorian editor or assistant editor. No, it's like, I was religious about the Mandalorian you have to be like that. You have to be like, Hey, this is something that really matter. You know, like this matters to me. This was such a big part of my childhood or this is a big part of my current. Or it's like I never heard of this show. I watched it on Netflix, I saw your name on the credits. And I just gotta say, that's amazing. Here's where I'm at. You're where I want to be. How would I make that a how to bridge that gap? That's, I mean, a little bit more polished. That's your outreach email right there.

Zack Arnold: And as you know, every time that I talk about this idea of providing value to people in giant, bold, red, all caps, letters, underline, asterisks, I say your value must be genuine. If it's not genuine and authentic people smell the ball. Yes, but yours was genuine and authentic. And the person that you reached out to was like, I never get messages like these, like, why would somebody sent it's not like we were reaching out to Walter merch, he probably gets a lot of outreach, we were reaching out to somebody that most likely almost never gets the quality of message that you sent, which is why it stood out, which is why you probably got a zoom call and had a conversation. So now connect the dots between initial zoom call and dream job for Marvel.

Matthew Farrugia: So um, basically it was I had I had the phone call with him. And it was he couldn't help me immediately. But he I was on his radar. And he was like, man, we are going to get you out of reality. We're going to get you into scripted we're going to is going to be awesome. And he's like, I see a lot of myself and you I want to help you and I do believe you know like what you said people do want to help each other. You know, even like all of the shows I've worked on. It's always been like hey, This is what you need, we want to help you get there. So basic. So you know, it was he connected me with people, he whenever he learned about like, Oh, hey, this is something that you could do, he sent my resume. And I mean he now I will say the guy that I connected to where he went above and beyond, he would he, you know, like, someone will respond to me, he would send them a message by Hey, why didn't you respond to the sky? That's a lot. I would not expect most people to do that he did, because he's awesome. I mean, just to be honest. But it's like one of those things you because I was genuine with him. And he knew where I wanted to go. She he put his neck on the line for me every time. And to the point where when I made a mistake I've made you don't know this text? Well, let me tell you like this story, I made a mistake. And it ended up being a positive thing in the end. But when it happened, my soul was crushed. And I called him and I told him, this is the first thing I told him. I was like, I'm more scared to have this conversation with you than I am having with my own mother. And he was like, what? I explained to him what's going on. And he told me, he was like, dude, and he's like, I put my neck on the line for you. Not because I thought you were gonna get right every time I put my neck on the line for you, because I knew you were going to try your hardest. And that's what you did. And that's why I did it. And you have to build that level of trust with somebody. So like, that's what I like. Because I was able to build a level of trust with him. That's how he was able to get me on. Right, you know, rise in the Apple show in the Marvel show. He was you know, he, I built a level of trust when that I didn't even like built it to that level. Because all of this happened. Before I had that conversation that phone calls, I'm like, yo, I'm more scared with my mom, like, all this happened before that that call happened afterwards. And I was that conversation made me realize I built up such a level of trust that he like, it's not just a matter of going to bet he's the coach, you know, he put me on the field, knowing I could hit that home run. And that like when you build a relationship after that outreach email, when you're building we're talking, that's what you're trying to get to. Because that's what's gonna get there. And that's what's gonna get you where you want to go. Or as far as they can take you, you know, like, that's what makes it

Zack Arnold: little did we know that workshopping, ad nauseam, one outreach email was gonna get you a mentor, that was not only going to open doors, but it was going to kick them open. And make sure that people knew that the door was open, and you were there standing waiting, I had no idea any of this would come from this, my hope is that we will get a response in a zoom call. So the fact that it led to where it did now is just absolutely astounding, and just speaks to your level of tenacity. And, you know, clearly understanding the value and all of this. And there's a there's one piece of advice that you learned a little bit earlier in your career that I think is another very good piece of advice for people to understand before we wrap up, because what you've alluded to and realize is that you don't have to be perfect. And he's judging you based on your character. He's like, this is somebody that's going to work their hardest. He's still young, he's going to make mistakes, and I understand that, but I'm vouching for this person's character. Because as you said, you're not even that great as an assistant editor. And I would bet the you're probably better than you think you're very hard on yourself. Given where you are now, I bet you're pretty good at your job. But you realize that it's not the only part of your job. So talk to me about one of the most, if not the most profound piece of advice. You got a little bit early in your career about skills versus character.

Matthew Farrugia: Yeah, so you Okay, so my, when I was in college, I was I was an intern slash post PA, for an indie feature film. I used to drive from San Diego to La without a car. So I would borrow I would rent cars borrow them from friends. I racked up a pretty big bill from that.

Zack Arnold: investment was well worth it clearly.

Matthew Farrugia: Oh, yes. 100% and the assistant editor for that for that in the feature film he told me. He was like, listen, Matt, if I have a choice between somebody who knows avid was a total dick unbearable to be around, and someone who knows nothing about Avid, but is really fun, really excited and really eager. I'm choosing the second person every time because I can teach you how to be an assistant editor. I can teach you how to use an avid I can teach you how to treat people. I can't teach you how not to be because As we're all too old for that, and I mean, I 21 years old, I was too old for him to do that, you know. And he even straight up said he was like, I wouldn't have let you stayed as the post pa if you were unbearable to be around. So and that's, that's one of those things like you have to go into everything. Be humble, and be like, Hey, I'm here to learn. Even if you know how to do dailies, you know how to script saying, you know how to do a sound, pass? You know how to do all these 10 VFX? What's the way you like it? Because when you're working with with first aid II or an editor, you gotta be like, Hey, how do you like it, and you have to, I relearn everything, every job, I waste so much paper, writing all these notes, just to literally rewrite them the next job because this is the way they like it. And I know it's not really a waste. But I have probably written how to do dailies about five times, there will be I actually just recently found like, I have one in the notebook that I'm using right now. And I found one from an earlier show I'm comparing I'm like, these notes are basically the same with like a few minor editor preferences. And but like, that's the thing is that you have to do that. Because you have to learn how they want it. And you'd have to be, be bright, be cheerful, especially as we're all remote. As we're all in zoom, you're not able to be there all the time. So when you are on Zoom, and you people do see your face, be the guy that smiles be the girl that you know, makes a joke or like even like, you know, I try and most of my Zoom meetings, we have like a daily meeting, I try to always be the person who's like a good morning, everyone. And everyone else's cameras off. Everyone else is muted. Usually I get one person to unmute Oh, good morning, Matt. Stuff like that. Like it sounds corny, but stuff like that. Because it's you're being bright, you're being cheerful and do not have an ego. Whatever ego you have, check it out the door, you don't have it, you got to be humble.

Zack Arnold: But once again, lots of amazing advice and you're wise well beyond your years. And on that note, we're going to have one more advice based question. What I would love for you to do and you may already know this exercise, because I do it on a lot of my podcasts, not all of them, but I do it when applicable. And in this case, very applicable. I want you to jump back into a time machine. And I want you to travel to yourself with the highest amount of career anxiety you have ever experienced, sitting in the middle of a paint store. Wondering when the hell am I ever going to get out here? And am I ever even going to get out of here? What are you going to tell yourself?

Matthew Farrugia: The first thing I'm going to say is don't be so hard on yourself. You know, I think I know, I know, I'm very hard on myself. A lot of my friends have told me that they're hard on themselves. Don't be so hard on yourself, because Rome wasn't built in a day. And when you're building your career, you kind of are like you're building an empire, you're building something, it's gonna last the rest of your life, you know, generally, is never gonna be built in a day, take every defeat every failure, quote, unquote, and find a way to win from it. And then I would also tell myself, it's like, hey, like, send those outreach emails. When you have a reason to when you know what you know exactly what you want to say. Because there are a lot of people, especially when I was at the paint store a lot of people that's like, Man, if I could go back and put that phone down by anybody. Think about it. Just think about it. Because this does this is not a good this is not a good outreach you're doing this is I don't think anyone hold anything against me. But there are definitely people that there's like an awkwardness now that's like, oh, you you said that really bad outreach, like a little while back. And this is this is the curse of having a very recognizable last names like yeah, that was me. You know, give me too many more perogy as in the film industry, especially for posts, you know, like that was me. Hi.

Zack Arnold: Well, with your personality, you'll you'll learn how to how to overcome that very quickly and make that a positive instead of a negative I'm sure. Definitely. So well. Like I said, that is amazing advice. I think that everybody should take note of your story, your approach all the things that you've mentioned, and most importantly, for anybody that is listening today, this thinking man, I would love to reach out to Matthew, if they wanted to connect with you and learn more about you. How can they do that?

Matthew Farrugia: Facebook is probably the best way way to get a hold of me. My name is my name Is I'm sure Zack's gonna put in the title. So just reach out. But send a good outreach email. Because you know, you've heard a lot here and listened to a few more of Zack's podcasts, you'll you'll know how to send it, send something that will knock my socks off, and you don't get a response.

Zack Arnold: I love it. Absolutely fantastic. Well, this is just one of those journeys that I just have absolutely loved watching. And it's certainly not the end of a journey. It is the very, very beginning of you building what is going to be your giant empire. So I can only imagine how quickly things you're gonna move along as you continue to build these relationships and continue to be humble and provide value. But at least for the meantime, this will be the end of the story. So I must say that has been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast, very glad that you can check off your bucket list being on the podcast, it means a lot to me. And I can't thank you enough for being here today. So thanks so much for sharing all this with us.

Matthew Farrugia: And thank you Zack, for everything you've done. Thank you for inviting me on the podcast. And yeah, I'd love for a part to one day of follow up. See where I'm at.

Zack Arnold: All right. All you got to do now is earn it. Yes, definitely. Which I know you will.

Matthew Farrugia: Thank you. Thank you

Episode Credits

This episode was edited by Curtis Fritsch, and the show notes were prepared by Debby Germino and published by Glen McNiel.

The original music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Joe Trapanese (who is quite possibly one of the most talented composers on the face of the planet).