[CASE STUDY] How to Diversify Your Creative Skills and Experience to Build Multiple Income Streams | with Krysia Szyszlo

About Episode

My guest today is Krysia Szyszlo, an Optimizer OG who has successfully diversified her career across multiple fields, including television editing, real estate investing, and dating coaching. Krysia’s journey is nothing short of inspiring. In her own words, she started in a dark place, struggling with a stalled career for over a year and later, a broken relationship. Through resilience, smart strategies, and more importantly, a shift in mindset, she transformed her career and built a life filled with purpose and growth.

In our conversation, we also uncover the fascinating connections between her work as a dating coach and career-building. Krysia highlights the parallels between dating, networking, and job hunting, offering practical advice and fresh perspectives that resonate across both personal and professional journeys.

If you’re navigating challenges in your own career, this episode is a thoughtful reminder that reinvention is possible — even when the path forward feels unclear. Krysia’s story offers a blueprint for resilience and growth, no matter where you’re starting.

Key Takeaways

Transitioning is not necessarily an all or nothing approach
Your ‘why’ has to be big enough for your unbalanced life for a little while until you get into the groove
No matter how many tactics and strategies you have, if you don’t have mindset and belief, you’re wasting your time
Transition is integrating skills from one career to another career

Transcript

Zack Arnold: I am here today with Krysia Szyszlo and Krysia. You and I have a very, very long history that goes back many, many years. It has been a long time coming since you and I first decided, You know what, maybe we should have a podcast conversation. But just to briefly introduce you to my listeners, you are what you say is the true embodiment of the gig economy's potential, and boy do I agree you are. And by the way, this could probably take the entire session, so I'm going to keep the introduction to a minimum, because it could be very overly complicated. But you were one Toronto based television editor. You're also a real estate investor. You're also a dating coach at date your destiny.com where you created the three date method. I believe you're also harboring and sheltering and training dogs. And I can only imagine there's a whole other laundry list of bullet points of what you know classifies use as we're going to talk a lot more about being a jack of all trades, but at the very least, I just, I wanted to point out that the most important reason that you're here today is actually the fact that you were on my very, very first students in this program, and somebody that I really admired and respected and really kind of helped me find my place to building the community and building the resources that I built. Now you're one of the very early kind of cheerleaders I had that made me realize, oh, maybe I do have some potential, and maybe there is a world of this for me. So I just wanted to say how much I very much appreciated that, and how excited I am that the two of us are finally getting this conversation on the record today.

Krysia: Well, thank you for the invite. This is really important for us to talk about, especially with what's going on in the economy, in the editing world. I've been through it for almost 40 years, Zack, I've been editing for 40 years. I've seen a lot, and I hope that what I could share today could offer some hope to those who are having some challenges in finding a gig and they're scared like I have been many times. So why don't we chat about that and give some hope and help to the people out there.

Zack Arnold: Yes, I'm all about giving people hope, because that is in very, very short supply right now. It's been in short supply for a long time. And I think that one of the things about your story that I appreciate the most, that we're going to get into the nuances of is you're a very resilient person. It wasn't a matter of, well, I'm a TV editor, and there's no TV work, so what was me? I'm just going to have to wait to see what happens. Like you always find a way out whatever it is that's going on. You always find your way through it. And we're actually want to start and we can find other parts of the origin story that I want to get into, but just for the sake of a place to start the conversation, share with everybody how it is that you initially found me and where our relationship started, because I think that's kind of at the epicenter of where this career pivot really started to kind of seed itself.

Krysia: Well, this when you first started coaching, yes, I was in a dark place. I hadn't found a gig for over a year. My self esteem was in the toilet. I didn't have a community of people who understood, specifically my boyfriend at the time, who was fully employed, didn't understand what it's like being a gig worker, and when we can't find a gig, it's really hard to get out of bed in the morning sometimes. And during that dark period, I realized, shoot, I need to find some support. And at that time, I didn't know that coaching was a possibility for editors. I heard about mentoring and all of those things, but lo and behold, there's Mr. Zack Arnold with a podcast, and I said, I need to talk to this man, because he understands gig work is not for the faint of heart. It's for a very courageous kind of people. We are very unique beings, and I think resilience does come out of being that

being in this kind of gig work, you know?

So I did reach out to you. I we did the 10 week program, and I could see in your current newsletters, you're doing the GROW Model, which

Zack Arnold: now doing an entire year working with people, yeah,

Krysia: but the GROW Model, the basis of it about looking at your your fear, the many obstacles. Are they real? Are they not real? That kind of work was the mindset that I needed so that I wouldn't continue going down a black hole, that I'm unworthy, for example, because those thoughts come in our head when we're not working, we feel we're unworthy. No one's hiring me. Where are my past clients? So that was super helpful. But during that time, I want to say, even though it was a dark place, I did choose to take a gig, because sometimes you just need to get out of your own head. When there's no real jobs in the market. So I was actually working in a garden center. I don't know if you remember, but I was watering the plants in the garden center for a whole summer, and that gave me peace and joy and being in community and not so isolated, because that's the other piece about mental health when we're unemployed is being with other people we really can't isolate. So that's what you offer Zack in your coaching and your new mastermind, I think is really needed, especially during this time of reception or change.

Zack Arnold: Well, I very much appreciate all of that, and just so people have a little bit more context. You were coming to me, where you were in this place, if you hadn't been able to find a gig in over a year, a lot of uncertainty, trying to figure out who you were, this loss of identity. But this was not over the last year or two. This was like six or seven years ago. So I'm just painting the picture that this is not an isolated incident with the current circumstances in the entertainment industry. Working as a gig worker, like you said, it takes a very specific kind of person, right? And it's this catch 22 especially for highly creative people like ourselves, where the idea of doing the same thing over and over is terrifying, and we want variety, but then the flip side is we just want some stability, and we know what we want to know the work is coming along, but as soon as we have the stability and we get comfortable, we get bored, and now we create the instability, right? So I find that it's this weird catch 22 where those that really excel at being gig workers, they love the creative process, but they hate the uncertainty that comes with being a gig worker that goes from project to project, and given the fact that so many projects have all but disappeared for all of us, and it's not just the Toronto market, it's not the Hollywood market. I've got students on six continents. This is happening to everybody that works in any form of entertainment or form of content creation, right? But this is not a new thing. This idea of the work not being there and it being an attack on our identity and our mental health. So I'm very glad you brought that up. And here's, this is something that's really funny. I had forgotten about you, having worked in the garden center when you and I first met, but here's why this is so interesting. Just yesterday, and I think there was you had subconsciously planted the seed of my mind. I'm working with another client right now, and she's in the process of overcoming burnout and took leave from her job, and we were starting to connect the dots on ways she can generate income but also improve her mental health and do something she's passionate about. And I literally said to her, what if you were to go work in a garden center? And she said, That actually sounds like a really great thing for me right now. So subconsciously, you planted that seed, and I didn't realize where that idea came from until you just mentioned. I'm like, no wonder why I suggested that. So I'm gonna have to connect the two of you.

Krysia: Yeah, it helped. It really did help to get out of my funk. It really did, even though it wasn't, it was minimum wage. It was really wasn't for the money. But we have to do what we have to do because to get out of it, and sometimes just being with nature, or having a friend to talk to, or Zack Arnold's coaching to help us with our mindset and believe in ourselves again. And that's when we have the calmness of our adrenal glands, when we're not stressed out. That's when my creativity flows. That's when I start realizing, Oh, hey, I can board dogs because my dog died in the summertime, and now I've made like, $1,500 just by having a beautiful dog in my life once in a while, and my partner who, oh, by the way, I'm engaged.

Zack Arnold: Oh, congratulations. I would expect nothing less of a dating coach. So congratulations on making that happen. That's new news since the last time we talked.

Krysia: It is new news. But he is retiring, and what he loves is roasting coffee beans. So his passion is that, hey, I don't have to work, but I want to work, and I'm going to work at the local Roastery and learn how they roast coffee, because something I love. So the point is, do something that lights you up, whether it's for a gig or just some income in the meantime, while the economy changes. But also remember that economies change, and we change with it, and pivot and learn new skills. When the opportunity will come, we don't know, but we're prepared, because we're always growing.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and that's exactly where I want to go today. Again, I feel like you and I if you give us 90 minutes, we could probably talk about pretty much anything, and I know that I would enjoy that that conversation with you, but I think that the epicenter of today's conversation is about really understanding the value that we as creative people hold far beyond our job titles. Because so many people right now are not only in this pit of despair because of the uncertainty, but. But it's this feeling that my identity is tied to my job title, and I'm a specialist like for you, you edited unscripted, reality television, right? So you get put in this box. That's your identity. But what we don't see when you step outside yourselves, and that's why I think having a coach or a mentor or anybody that can reflect this back on you, I truly believe that everybody can provide way more value than they think, because they have a lifetime of transferable skills, knowledge, unique abilities, or even their experience, they don't understand how to connect the dots and transfer those skills. So what I really wanted to do is use you as an example to kind of break you down into your component parts. Because once you can read the matrix and having known you for years and watched this transition. I can see the code right. I can see the matrix of all the transferable skills in one area that have led to what was just the inevitable, obvious success in the other areas that you have now. Most people can't see that in themselves. So what I actually want to do again as they want to kind of rewind back to when you and I first started to work together, and it was really, really challenging to find work as an editor, working in unscripted working in Toronto. And, you know, we talked both about mindset. We went through my go far framework, which I'm still using to this day. I've got much better at breaking it down and explaining it, but it's still the essential foundation. But we also got very, very tactical. I remember spending a lot of time with digging into your website and going one page at a time and talking about the copy and my memory of your original. And this was for your you know, your sizzle editing business, right? I remember the original version of that to the new version and seeing that transition and transformation. But now I look at your dating website and it's like you're playing the game at a totally different level, your ability to not make it about you, your ability to speak to your ideal clients, to help them understand where they're stuck and see their potential. It's like it's not even the same human being that I workshopped the website with years ago when I look at the business that you build now. So what I want to help people understand is that transition in all of the transferable skills in one area that have made you successful in the other areas that you have now. So that's kind of, to me, the epicenter of today's conversation.

Krysia: Well before you even knew me, I would just want to give you a little bit more history of how many times I had to reinvent myself. And when I first started editing, it was TV commercials. You did trailers. And when my business partnership, I was a vice president with my business partners, we dissolved the company, and it took a long time for me to re identify myself. I tried different things. I wanted to do long form, more than 30 seconds, but everyone said, You cannot jump from commercials to a feature film. And I'm going to say bull, because somehow I was in a mass depression. I didn't know where I was going. I started body building. I broke my glass ceiling with my body and health. But I also found my very first feature film with Eugene Levy Daniel Baldwin in a B movie called Silver man that was filmed in Toronto. So 32nd commercials to a 90 minute feature film, it's possible. And when you and I were building my website, you helped me realize. I said, Well, I'm doing I do scripted, I do features, I do unscripted, I do documentary, I do music videos. I've done this. You said you're genre agnostic? I said yes, and that is something I want to give hope to every other editor there, although Hollywood drama and scripted stuff may be down, but there's everything else is coming up, whether it be YouTube videos, YouTube TV shows, it's still the same skills. So, yeah, we can do the transferable stuff. So that's what I want to give hope for. I mean, it may have been a miracle that I got that feature film, but then again, Canada, guess what? We're not a movie market. It dipped. And then what did we call those? Like HGTV stations, all of those food networks all came up. So guess what? I jumped into that. So now I'm a master of editing food shows or house and garden shows or renovation shows. And that is transferable as well. So just giving hope that even though you want to be a scripted editor, there's other things that are just enjoyable. Can I just speak briefly on this one show I'm working on right now? It's called, sure, please all ghosting, and it's not about dating, it's it's second season. It's on CBC here in Canada, which is our national network. And the premise is, it's two hosts go to supposedly haunted buildings in Canada, and they do a Ghostbusters with Go, Go, Gadget, Go, little things. Try. Trying to talk, but it's a scary slash comedy, and here me as an editor, I have to bring more skills to the table and learn how to create those atmospheric scary scenes and then jump scares and then make it funny because it's funny because they're comedians. It's a real skill. But I'm saying we editors. I started doing 35 mil Film Editing commercials, and we had to pivot to linear editing systems to now non linear editing systems to Premier, to file cut. We are adaptable. We are so adaptable. I just want to give everybody remember how adaptable we are,

Zack Arnold: yeah, and I would, I would underscore that by saying it's not just editors, because since you and I have worked together, I far expanded beyond working with people just that are doing editorial. And I find that the the epicenter is really people that are highly creative, and especially those that are geared towards storytelling. So it definitely broadens far beyond just editors and that ability to be adaptable, where I feel creative people don't understand how poised they are for this massive transition that we're seeing in the way that we work. But I want to go back to the there's two things that I want to hit what you just said. The second one that I'm going to kind of come back to in a minute is the idea that you're literally working on a show right now, while also running a dating business, while also, you know, housing animals, while also being a real estate investor. That's part of the journey. We're going to put a pit in that. We're going to come back to that in a little bit. But what I want to talk a little bit more is the value of being genre agnostic. Because I remember having that conversation, and I too, saw myself as genre agnostic. And I think that most people with the way that the the industry, or frankly, any creative industry, has worked for, you know, the last several generations, that was always a liability. They want you to be. One thing, we're going to pigeonhole you. We're going to say you only do 32nd commercials, or you only do trailers, or you only do HGTV Home Remodeling shows and the specialization is what gave us stability, right? Most people wanted to break out of that box, and they wanted to be a square peg in a round hole, not being a square peg shoved into a square hole. But they thought that having that diversity was a liability, because people couldn't pigeon hole them. But here's what I want to point out. And I've been talking about this and beating this drum for two years, and people have not believed me, but I now have verifiable proof that I have been on to something. So just recently, by the time this comes out, it probably will have been two three weeks ago, but I just sent out a brand new newsletter where I saw just this week from one of the top Hollywood recruiters in the industry that's helping recruit talent for the major studios. Here's what they said, the number one thing that was in the most demand, and the most important, the main thing in demand is versatility. Companies don't want to pigeonhole somebody as much as they used to. You've got to be able to wear several hats and be flexible and versatile. There's so much change that you have to be able to go with it. Creative people that feel like they're a jack of all trades, and that was their liability, has now become our superpower. It's just all about understanding how to harness it. And you were the perfect example of somebody that was ahead of the curve, where you were already genre agnostic, and you've been able to use that to diversify yourself, not just as an editor, not just as a storyteller, but in multiple ways, across three different industries, generating multiple streams of income. So that genre agnostic does not just apply to you as an editor. I feel like that applies to you as a human being.

Krysia: Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think for me, getting into real estate was about my it's a story about my father. And my parents came from Poland in 1960 with 100 bucks in their pocket, and within a few years, my dad bought an eight Plex. He was a bricklayer. How he did that with four children and grandparents from the old world, and he supported us, and he showed me that I can like I'm able. I would help him with renovating, I would help him with all sorts of things. And I just want to say that he gave me the idea that I could be a real estate investor by buying a house in Toronto and renting out half of my my house because of the instability of the cash flow right as a gig worker. So I always know my mortgage will be paid. I always know that I am safe. I won't be kicked out of my apartment. So that's why I got into into real estate in the first place.

Zack Arnold: So having said that, now, I want to talk a little bit more about this kind of misnomer or misunderstanding that I see so much when people are making career pivots or transitions. Whether it's by choice of which, most of the people that I've worked with over the last several years, it was by choice, like for you, it was a matter of, I want to, you know, broaden my horizons. I both just want to get more work, but want to, you know, get more diverse work. But over the last few years, from the pandemic forwards, are a lot of career transitions that are happening involuntarily, that. Not by choice, right? But the the myth, or kind of the this misunderstanding, is it's an all or nothing transition. I used to only do this, now I have to stop doing everything, and now I'm only doing this. And you being on this call today is the perfect representation of you're running a successful dating business. You're also managing real estate. You literally just closed your avid so you can do this podcast conversation, right? So you're constantly spinning multiple plates and wearing multiple hats. It's not an all or nothing transition. Where you were this thing now you are this thing. You're kind of all of it at the same time.

Krysia: Yeah, and you've had burnout, and sometimes I've experienced burnout, juggling that and managing teams of people who are on like, you've got Debbie helping you, and I'm awesome. I'm so happy you do. I have a virtual assistant. I had a creative director who's helping me create my brand, so I have to keep on top of them too, but that's also juggling people. And so yeah, I'm up at 7am managing my team, and then 9am at the editing desk, six o'clock back at the end of my coaching, whether it's with clients or not. But it does take some balancing, and I can learn from you maybe a bit more about that. Well,

Zack Arnold: I'm one of the world's foremost experts on burnout, not academically, because I have all the solutions. Is I'm one of the world's experts at experiencing it over and over and over. It is the eternal struggle, and I always talk about how I really believe the root cause of burnout is setting unrealistic expectations. And having since talked to multiple experts that have literally written entire books and gone through all the research on burnout, they're basically saying the same thing. Like, yep, you pretty much nailed it head on, right? It's all about setting those unrealistic expectations. And for me, one of the biggest challenges, and I want to hear more about what this has been like for you as well. But when you go from being one thing, right? Like, it's hard enough being an editor or being a creative in a very demanding industry, but it's also simple. There's a huge difference between simple and easy, but when all you have to do is wake up and open the timeline and open the bins and cut you got one job, right? But for me, that was enough to create the burnout, because I would become so invested in the work. But now all of a sudden, I'm editing Cobra Kai during the day, but before that, I'm doing my coaching calls, but I also have to manage the podcast, but now I have to, you know, answer these messages from my team. I would presume that for you, it's very similar, where you have to put on your editor hat. Then you're you've got your dating coach hat, but then you've got your partner hat, right? But then you've got your, whatever you would call yourself as somebody you know, that's fostering animals, right? So first of all, tell me a little bit more just about like, what, what a typical day or week in the life looks like for somebody like you who's doing these multiple things. And then I want to talk more about understanding how I believe that for most of us, this is going to be our new reality going forwards. But first, just kind of give us a sense of what does your life actually look like with all these different things that you're doing simultaneously.

Krysia: It's not balanced, to be honest,

Zack Arnold: and that's totally fine. This isn't about you're here as the experts that solved it all. I want people to really understand the challenges that come with us.

Krysia: Yeah, it's tough, and I get tired. I'm so lucky that I have a supportive partner who believes in me and sees how much work goes into creating an online business. Online Business is saturated right now, since the pandemic, because everyone jumped on businesses. So how do we get through that again? It shows our resilience, our ability to pivot. I have a copywriting coach that I help that helps me with some of my writing. I have outsourced a lot of people because I believe in me, so you have to believe in yourself, and I believe that being a coach is the biggest gift. So my why, like I remember you and I working together, you said, What's your way? What is your why that you're doing this? Your why has to be big enough for your unbalanced life for a little little while, until you get into the groove, until you build up your your copywriting skills, like these are all things that are teachable, are learnable, but balancing our life and dealing with what matters like. Luckily, I don't have a family. I know you do, so your kids are priority, and you got to make time for that. It's not just work, work, work, because I don't want to be a workaholic. So yeah, it's tough, but you got to believe in what you're doing.

Zack Arnold: Yep, and that is you and I started from almost day one, and setting that foundation for mindset and really understanding, number one, why this is important to you. Like, well, what's really driving you? What is that core why? But also having the mindset and the belief that I am actually the kind of person that can do this, because I say to people all the time, they're always looking for the task. Tactics. They want the tactics and the tools, but that's the surface level, right? I can give all the tactics and the tools in the world, and frankly, I can tell you all the best strategies. If you don't have mindset and belief we are wasting our time, and I see this all the time with people that want the quick fixes, but if they don't believe that they can actually achieve that success, and there isn't a core reason that's driving them their core motivation that goes far beyond I want a more stable income, or I want to make money, or I want my name on the screen, that stuff ain't going to cut it, especially with the amount of adversity we're dealing with. It all comes back to mindset and the belief that you are the kind of person that has these abilities or these skills or this perspective that makes you valuable, right? So I want to continue drilling into this. And when I talk a little bit more about this concept of being a jack of all trades and master of one, because everybody always says, Oh, Jack of all trades and master of none, right? But the saying actually goes, jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. But I believe you can be both, and I think that there are core specialties that you have that have nothing to do with your job title that have made you successful in these other areas. And the through line that I've seen, and you've mentioned this a little bit here, but I see this through line very much on your website, and also from knowing you, is not your ability as an editor, it's your ability as a storyteller, and it's also your ability to manage relationships, and I don't mean as a dating coach, I know that one of the things that we talked about was your ability to really collaborate and communicate with clients and really understand that the stories that they want to tell. So let's talk a little bit more about the skills that you believe came from your years of editing and storytelling to now making you a great dating coach and entrepreneur.

Krysia: Oh, I love that question.

Well, for a creative person, I get my juice with collaboration. You mentioned that word. So for example, I'm working with a team. We're working remotely, and once a week, I'll go into the office and work with my executive producer and the director, and that's where the juices kind of fly. The sparks fly in the room. It's magnetic. So I take that, that skill of being able to speak with people, getting to understand them, reflecting back their words to understand what they really want, and managing it in a way where they feel heard and understood, and also problem solving. I think, yes, absolutely, editing is about problem solving, working and unscripted. There's only one take. There might be two cameras, there might be three, but that's it, that you know you have to problem solve all the time, and so that's also an excellent skill that we have as creative people. I don't want us to forget that. And if we have the right relaxed mindset, like you talked about or calm adrenal system, that creativity could come up, but if we're under stress or depression, it's hard to get there. But I'm going back to that. So I think the adaptability working on different kinds of shows all the time makes us more resilient. I'm working with different people all the time. We don't have a culture that's the same in each space. I have to adapt to them. I have to learn how to work with them. So for example, if someone's sending me emails, well, I'm not looking at my email inbox when I'm working. I only do it at specific times in the day. So I have to train them in a way, saying, Hey, if you need something, phone, text me. I'll see the text, but I don't open my email because it's distracting me and then get it. So we have to learn how to work with each other all the time. So that's another skill, so that's amazing. It's people skills, right? Don't we call that soft skills that are transferable?

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I hate to be honest. I hate the term soft skills, because it did to me. If you didn't know the definition of a hard skill versus a soft skill, the presumption is the hard skills are the really important ones and the soft ones, oh, their soft skills are not that important. I like the term human skills, and it's the human skills that separate us from our competition, not our hard skills, your ability to navigate an avid timeline and be able to cut footage together, yeah, you and everybody else in the industry that has those hard skills. It's your human skills, your ability to understand what somebody needs, to reflect their needs back at them, to solve the complex story problems, not the technical problems. That's what I believe sets you apart as a storyteller and an editor and now as a dating coach and as an entrepreneur, that's, that's the thread where I see the specialization, where That's where you're a master of one, but also a jack of all trades, right? And here's, here's a piece of information that, if you had told me about this, I either overlooked it or I'd forgotten about it, but in reviewing. Kind of updating myself on everything you've done recently, I looked at your website and it said you have a degree in psychology. And I don't think that it's an accident that your degree in psychology led you to being an editor.

Krysia: It's true.

You know, when I when I got my degree, the only way that I knew have to get into the psychology. The business of Psych is to be a therapist, and I realized I don't want to be a therapist. But back then, I didn't know there were such things as coaches. If there was way back in the 80s when I graduated from university, I would have gone into coaching, but I didn't know. And

Zack Arnold: here's the ironic thing. I don't think that most editors realize, myself included, that they're therapists, basically Great, good editors. Sure you understand how to put music and sound effects and picture together, and you can make a scene compelling, and you can cut a montage, or whatever it is, the good ones that are technically proficient and are able to do the job, sure, the great editors, I believe most of them, are therapists. I've always said that the essentially, what you are as an editor is you are the therapist or mediator between multiple groups of divorced parents, right? It's like, Well, mom wants me to do this with the scene, but dad wants me to change it this way. And dad says, Don't tell mom I wanted it this way. Like, that's been the story of at least 10 years of my career in television is I'm essentially the kid between divorced parents, and you have to learn how to mediate conflict, but also you have to learn how to talk incredibly insecure creative people off the ledge because they don't believe in themselves and they don't believe in their ideas. So again, if you were to say, is it a natural progression to go from degree in psychology to dating coach? I'd say, sure, but I think it's even more of a natural progression that most people don't see to go from being interested in psychology to being an editor and storyteller.

Krysia: Yeah, and you know, during those bouts of unemployment between gigs, I would always go into personal development, I would just hunker down and want and some of the things I've done is I'd go to an employment center. I'm sure they're around, and I learned how to work with LinkedIn. I got trained on doing this, but I also got the personality tests done, whether it's the Myers Briggs, or what color is your parachute, or all of those kind of different personality tests. And you know what? Once we put them all into the computer to discover what were my best job titles, you know what I was doing as an editor and a producer all came up. So it's not a surprise for my for my personality. Yeah,

Zack Arnold: and so and again, it's not a surprise that we were kind of starting to put all these component parts together, and we start to see how they comprise this unified whole, right? So I want to talk a little bit more now about the components that we've discussed, where it's a matter of this degree in psychology, this ability to mediate communications and really understand and listen to people. In hindsight, it just seems like, Duh, of course, you became a dating coach, right? But at what point did you go from here? I am trying to figure out I want to just make a living as an editor. I'm working at a garden center. What was the impetus for you to say, Huh? Dating Coach, interesting. Where did that come from? Where did that spark come from? So if other people are looking for that, we can create that environment.

Krysia: Well, during this, all happened during the pandemic, we were in lockdown for a long time, and luckily, our government offered some income monthly. So I wasn't, you know, financially in a hole. I invested in myself by going to coaching school online with Eben Pagan. He's quite renowned. He used to be called David D'Angelo. He was a dating coach a long time ago, but he's a business coach now, and I did the training then, and also with another coach, Adam Gilad, who's a dating coach for decades, who also lives in LA I worked under his umbrella in his group coaching as one of the senior coaches with the community of men and women. And that is where, but that is something I did, because I do my personal work when I'm not working. But the personal reason is that when you and I met, I was engaged to another gentleman. That didn't work out. Because honestly, when I was going through that dark period of unemployment, the empathy wasn't there, the communication wasn't there, it was falling apart, and maybe that was partly it was both of us. But then I was single again. I became single. I was single for four years, and during that time and during the pandemic, I mastered how to date in three dates or less to know if that person is an ideal compatible. Partner or not. So that's when I came up with the three date method, because when we're older, we don't want to waste time. We know that life is short. And I'm I'm working with people who are in midlife and up so 40 plus, they have life experience the maturity that I want to work with, because they know time is limited. They they really want to have a life partner and a companion, and that's something I really wanted, so I mastered it, and I'm giving my gift to the world and like, just like you, just like you.

Zack Arnold: So I presume that Tinder is probably not one of the the tools in your arsenal. Then, if you're, you know, helping people to become compatible in their, you know, their 40s and beyond,

Krysia: but clients, those aren't Yeah, exactly,

Zack Arnold: though. And what I love about that is, you know who you want to help and you know who you don't want to help. And that's all part of understanding who you are and understanding what your brand is, right? So the yes, there was a proliferation of people that came out of the woodwork during the pandemic. They started online businesses, coaching businesses, doing online courses, like there was an explosion of all of this, where I was basically this big fish in a tiny, tiny pond, and then all of a sudden everybody had a podcast talking to editors, and everybody was teaching productivity and how to write emails and all this other stuff, right? But when you really understand who it is that you help and who your brand is. You naturally attract the right people, you repel the wrong ones. But as long as you keep at it, kind of coming back to this theme of resilience, right? It's not a matter of, this is the gold rush, and I'm chasing after that pan of gold. When you really know why you're doing it, right? Eventually you rise above the rest, and I've barely, barely been able to survive throughout the last two years with this massive crash that's happened in the industry. But we're still here, and we still have that foundation of who we work with and growing from that foundation, which, again, is all about branding and knowing who it is that you want to work with and who you don't, which I love about the fact that you know exactly who's right for your coaching method and who isn't. But here's one I want to get into a little bit deeper what I find really interesting. And I see this all the time in the kind of the general life coaching industry, right? And I'm sure you've probably heard this before, where people say, if your life is a disaster and you have no idea what to do with your life, what do you do? You become a life coach and you help other people with their disastrous lives, right? And I think in some ways there is some truth to that, but I also think in other ways that there are people that are really genuinely suited to be helpful to others, because they can reflect on them having very, very similar experiences. So what, what first came to mind? And this is me playing the devil's advocate when you say you're a dating coach and you've mastered dating? Well, hold on a second. You're single. There's a disconnect between those two things, right? And obviously you're not anymore, right? Anybody that can't see the video, you're holding up your engagement ring. Yes, I am, right. So, so on the surface, if you didn't better understand it, you would say, Well, how can you be a master of dating? If you're single, you need to practice what you preach. And I feel like there's, there's so many businesses out there now, or whether it's life coaching or otherwise, where it's somebody that's teaching something or selling something that they themselves are not doing. And what I appreciate about you is you're very authentic to the things that you're teaching, and you do practice what you preach,

Krysia: right? Like when I was going through that depression, when my business, when I was in doing commercials and our partnership was dissolving, I started body building, but I wouldn't take training from someone who was out of shape, right? I had a personal trainer who was awesome, had great shape, had great skills to share with me. You're right.

Zack Arnold: And here's the reason that I bring this up, and this is something I, too, can very much relate to, is that once you put yourself out there, especially if you're more kind of an introverted, creative and you've always done your own thing, but if you want to try and diversify your income, whether it's being a coach, or whether it's, you know, creating another business, whatever it might be, you have to put yourself out there and what comes out of the woodwork? Imposter syndrome. Who the hell am I to think that I can help creatives manage their burnout? When I have experienced burnout so many times, I've lost count, right? And I would presume there had to have been some fears or apprehensions about like I'm coming out of a mess of a relationship, and all of a sudden I'm going to be a dating coach. I would guess there had to be some of those fears, limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, because it's not easy to put yourself out there and help others.

Krysia: Well, I had a mentor, so I was well supported, and I knew I had a lot to offer, because I've been through it up and down, just like you with the burnout, yeah, you got to learn. What do they say? The stuff you need to learn, hard like to really get sometimes you have to teach. And I get better and better every time I coach and every time I help somebody. Don't you like, oh, yeah, absolutely, better and better. And you get more precise with your words. Times and and you have a, maybe another workaround that supports their personality, because everyone's different. Some people learn by visuals, some people learn by listening. Some people learn by doing. So you have to adapt with your client as well.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, the and the I don't know if this, I'm definitely paraphrasing the saying, but to kind of go on what you just said, it's essentially that whatever advice you find yourself giving the most is probably the advice that you need the most yourself. And it it took me a few years to kind of step outside the jar and kind of read my own label, and I'm like, Oh, the reason that I think I'm helping people better manage work life balance and overwhelm and burnout and anxiety and depression, is because I need to be giving myself the advice all day long that I'm giving my clients, which is where that's kind of where the imposter syndrome transitioned for me from. I'm supposed to put on the veneer that I've got it all figured out. I have solved these problems. I am your expert, and now I'm going to help you reach the promised land too. It was when I made the transition from I'm at a soapbox sharing here the strategies and the solutions, to Hey everybody, I'm stuck in the same trench as you. I'm trying to solve all the same problems. And as soon as I shared the vulnerability, that's when the game changed, and that's when I started to attract the right people. And it sounds like you very much have put yourself in that same position, and

Krysia: that's true with what's going out right now with the influx of people online, is what's going to cut through is the honesty, the vulnerability, the realness of us as human beings. And that's where I want to help people who are really true to themselves and true with me. So they have to have a trust too. They have to trust me if I'm going to work with them. They have to like me. They have to know that I have their best interests and that I believe I believe in them as much and I I'm going to believe in them until they learn to believe in themselves.

Zack Arnold: So if we're going to dig even deeper into this transition, and again, for anybody that might have missed earlier, it's not the transition from, I used to do this, and now I do this instead. It's the transition to integrating another area into your life, which is this coaching business integrated into, literally, you editing, you know, an unscripted, you know, ghost chasing show. All at the same time, it went from well, I'm now trying to figure out how to get more gigs as an editor. I'm working at a garden center now, all of a sudden, it's the pandemic. I see these opportunities. Where specifically did it go from? There's definitely an opportunity to coach, very specifically to it's about dating and helping people find love in their true mates. Because, again, I feel like all of us are this mosaic of all of these experiences, these unique perspectives, these abilities, this knowledge, but it's hard for us to put the pieces together. How did you know it was dating coaching? That was where you belonged,

Krysia: because that was my world. Because I was I was during the pandemic. I was on 170 telephone dates, a 101st dates. That was my world, because I believed in myself that I I wanted to be partnered with someone as special, and I wanted everyone else to have that as well, because that's what I knew best. Honestly, I knew dating best by making the mistakes choosing people for chemistry instead of compatibility, or choosing compatibility and negating chemistry. So we I had to come up with a method where both our head, our heart and the chemistry are in line so that one doesn't overpower the other. And I was teaching both. I was coaching for men and women, and I'm finding that mostly men have been coming to me, so I am pivoting or niching down even more, not just men and women in midlife, but now men in midlife, they are unique beings, and they really need a woman like like me who can really understand them so they get a sense of what an empowered female might look like. I could flirt with them. I could role play with them. I could help them with their style. I could help them with their with their writing, of their dating profile, of their photos. I'm finding that they really need a female perspective. I think that's why they're coming to me.

Zack Arnold: Well, going back to this idea of resilience, I think I'd rather be trapped on the Small World ride at Disneyland for 24 hours a day than go on 100 dates. You must be the most resilient human on the planet. When I was in the dating sphere for it was a very short period of time, maybe 10 dates, maybe 10 max. And it just happened though I literally gave up. After, I think, less than three months. But luckily, the very last person that messaged me also said, I'm done with the whole dating thing. We were on match.com at the time, way back, just still back in the date when people would say, how do you know they're not an ax murderer like now, everybody finds somebody online. But back then was, this was a novel idea, and what was now my wife, she had said, I'm done with the whole dating thing, but you seem nice. And I said I literally already canceled my account, but we started emailing back and forth. We got on the phone. 20 years later, here we are married with two children, right? But I can't even imagine having the resilience to go through that process and go through that much rejection. How do you manage going through 100 dates without saying to yourself, I must be a piece of shit and

I'm unlovable.

Krysia: Oh, never

Zack Arnold: I would think that most people would. So what I'm asking is, how did you not fall into that trap? Because it's exactly the same in the creative world, sending resume after job application, it's exhausting, and eventually you say, it's got to be me. I'm broken, I am unlovable. I am unhireable. How did you get through that?

Krysia: Yeah, sometimes I had to shut down the dating apps. Sometimes I had to take breaks until I got my mojo back. I also realized that people that I meet and I just didn't go on blind dates, I always vetted them first. You'd have telephone conversations or Zoom calls to make sure they're truly who they are, but they're really nice people. So I met some incredible human beings. Some are still my friends, which is lovely. So it was mindset again, and yeah, it's exhausting when it's not the right person again and again again. But also, remember, as a coach, I'm also really self aware the kind of caliber of gentlemen that could meet me in all of my aspects and really appreciate what I have to offer. You know, it took a while to find, and the one I found, I found on a personal development workshop right after the pandemic, we met in person, we were on retreat, and it's like, bam,

Zack Arnold: and of course, it was at a personal development workshop. Is where else are you going to meet somebody that has those same values that you do

Krysia: correct? You got to put yourself where people have the same values and the other glitches. I'm Canadian, he's in the US, so a long distance thing going on. But I just want to say that you know resilience and believe in yourself, and that's what I did. I knew that I'm worthy for the right person, and I'm not going to betray myself ever again by going just for chemistry or being keep going on dates for someone who's in a friend zone. But it's also like, when I was talking to Debbie earlier on, she was saying, it's kind of like dating and and editing and looking for a job. It's like dating,

Zack Arnold: yeah, it's not kind of like it. Networking and dating are the exact same thing, with maybe the end result looking different. Sometimes it even isn't right, and it depends on who you know, who you're working with. But I've been saying for years, the networking and dating are essentially the same thing, and I always use dating as the analogy for when people are doing outreach or looking for jobs or whatever it is, which is why I wanted to continue digging into the this idea of overcoming the imposter syndrome and being able to manage the resilience and the rejection. Because even though you teach dating, I would say that if you were a networking coach and not a dating coach, it would probably be almost exactly the same process, very, very similar frameworks, and having gone through the process of rejection, where you went through an entire year where you couldn't find work, knowing that so many people are going through all those rejections. Now, I know people that have literally just given up. They said, I've sent 500 job applications, I've gotten two interviews, I've gotten no work. I really want to help people understand how they can use the strategies you teach with dating to network, but ultimately not let it get to clearly, I'm the problem and I'm broken and there's something wrong with me versus it's just about chemistry or it's just about compatibility. So let's start mining all of your really cool tools, mindsets and strategies as a dating coach, but let's pretend you're a networking coach for a second, sure. All right, so I want to start putting myself out there. I'm really struggling to find work up until now, most of the work has come to me. The work falls in my lap. It's one referral after another that well, in the last year and a half to two years, has dried up for me, right? I want to start putting myself out there. I don't even know where to start.

Krysia: First place I would start is your current network. If you could find them. I know that you speak about using IMDB. Here. I get most of my work through LinkedIn, because we're all gig workers, even the producers, even the directors, we're all. All on LinkedIn, and you have direct access to them, so that would be one way to go through. You could do research on companies, finding out who, what kind of projects are coming up. Sometimes they even go to the website of specific companies. Let's say it's the Scott brothers doing a house renovation show. I would go to their website, and you could see the casting calls. So when I see the casting call on their website looking for specific homeowners, I could see that they're actually gearing up to do a show. So then I know, then that's when I start networking. And I could see who's worked on LinkedIn, who worked with Scott brothers company before, and maybe I know them, and then I can ping them and say, Hey, do you know what's going on? We're all freelancers, so I want you to not be afraid to reach out. And I know when I'm doing that remotely, trying to reach out online, people don't always check their messages, so don't take it personally. No, I don't know about networking events. I clam up in social situations. I'm an introvert, and I get really anxious, and I really suck at doing it in person. I do better by direct messaging and networking through LinkedIn. What do you think about that?

Zack Arnold: Yeah, no, I think that's a great place to start. And I, too, I was just shaking my head vigorously for anybody that is not watching at the idea of using in person networking events, not because I don't think that in person networking events can't be tremendously beneficial. I think they're the worst possible strategy for looking for work. I think in person networking events are great if you want to build your peer group, if you want to connect with like minded people, and you want to collaborate, and you just want to kind of build your network of human beings that do similar work as you. I think in person networking is great. I think if you see it as a meat market where you're thinking, I'm going to pass around my business card, or I'm going to pass around my reel or whatever it is, right? That's the way that most people see, quote, unquote, networking in person. But my, my deeper hypothesis, and I'm actually at the point where I'm pretty convinced, I'm actually going to write a book to prove this hypothesis, is that I believe that introverts are better at networking than extroverts. They just don't know it. Because I believe that introverts are a lot more thoughtful. I think they're a lot more caring and empathetic to the people that they work with. And I think introverts are much more capable of deeper, meaningful relationships. They're just much more selective about how to do it. So it doesn't surprise me at all that you gravitate to LinkedIn because you can be strategic. You can understand the people that you want to work with beforehand, rather than, well, here's a bunch of people at this networking event. We'll see what opportunities come my way. But when you're reactive instead of proactive, 20 years later, you ask, How the hell did I end up here? And how is this what I do for a living, rather than I've gone down this path instead, right? And I would presume that it's very similar with your dating advice, where it's probably not a matter of just show up at a bar, right? You're probably having people be much more selective to understand their needs, where they're compatible and what would create chemistry.

Krysia: You said it all, yeah. And I know for me as an introvert, being at networking events, if I'm unemployed and my self esteem is low, there's a lot of pressure, and that energy kind of leaks out. And it's not a positive one. When you're in person looking for a gig, it just comes out sideways. All right, so now

Zack Arnold: I'm going to put myself back in the position of trying to understand the similarities and parallels between networking and dating, and I've decided I'm going to start doing some research. I'm going to go whether it's via LinkedIn, IMDb, pro, wherever it's glass door, wherever, whatever your community is, and where they hang out. We start with using my existing network, but now I realize that I need to expand my network, and that's where it gets really scary, because it's kind of a crutch to say, well, let me connect with people that I've already worked with, right? But that's that's going to be a relatively small, small well for most people. So now I have to, quote, unquote, put myself out there, and I got to start from scratch, and I got to reach out to new people. I know that in the professional sphere, for most creative introverts, that's terrifying for me, the that was abject terror in the dating space. So all of a sudden I decide I want to start meeting new people. Where in the world do I start? If this terrifies the hell out of me, and the last place you're ever going to find me is at a bar or at an in person networking event, like, how do I start to build a network of people, whether dating or professional, if I have to start building a new one using some of the frameworks and strategies you teach, how do I put myself out there? If this is terrifying and I don't believe in myself,

Krysia: Well, for dating, I have to we first look at themselves. Do an internal look. We look at. Them their personality, for example, are they introverted or extroverted? That helps? I also we do an assessment on attachment style, whether they're clingy or away. So that's specific to dating. It's it's a self knowledge. But if you know you're an introvert and you do better at networking online, then we'll help craft a dating profile, or using a profile or craft an opening letter to your network and asking them for referrals, because they're going to say lovely things about you and you'll get in the door. So that's another thing about dating. You could ask your friends, hey, I'm open to dating again. Do you know anybody who's compatible? It's similar, you're right. Zack, so that's a great way that's more comfortable. So it's a warmer a warmer match, as opposed to supreme cold match. I don't know if LA is the same. When I was there, I actually networked and made phone calls to production companies, post production companies, and they were so open to have a coffee or lunch, even someone from Canada, this is sure come on down. I don't know if that's true anymore.

Zack Arnold: Oh, I would say that it's universally true. I don't think it's la versus Toronto. I think it's just people being human. We need and we desire and we require human contact, and we require feeling like we're a part of something. It's literally a basal survival mechanism. If you're not a part of the tribe, and you're extricated from the tribe, you're going to get eaten up by a lion because you have no protection, right? Nowadays, it's exactly the same way. And by and large, as long as you're reaching out to somebody and it's genuine, and it's not get me a job or be my girlfriend or boyfriend, right? If it's genuinely about just connecting as humans, yeah, I, by and large, I'm shocked by the amount of my students that are able to send cold outreach, they don't even ask for the coffee or the lunch or the Zoom meeting. The other person says that was the nicest message I've received. I would love to chat. You know what? Let's get on Zoom, or are you local? Let's go grab a coffee together. They don't even have to ask for it, because people just desire this. But especially we introverted, creatives, think as soon as we send that message and we don't get a reply in 17 minutes, oh, my God, I was bothering this person, and I sounded so stupid, and I must have just totally offended them. Oh, I'm never gonna ask for anything from anybody again, right?

Krysia: So that's coffee date. You're right. This is just like a coffee date. I've done that in the past, too, for a production company that I really wanted to work with. I really loved their show. They were going into six seasons, and it was a comedy. It was it was fun, and I wanted to work on comedy. I love laughing every day in the edit suite, so I did that exact thing. I used your letter format of asking them a question, and then the emails went back and forth, and I met them for coffee. She was a post production executive. I didn't get the gig, but that's okay. The point is, we had a lovely time, and as an introvert, I got to go deep with her and get to know what she what she's like. So that helps me as an introvert, I don't like big, crowded spaces, and we had coffee on a park bench. It was really nice. So just coffee date with your data

Zack Arnold: exactly. And I'm going to keep coming back to this. I'm going to keep hammering this point home, because this is always the main objection that people are going to have with this process. And again, networking and dating are identical in this respect. It's the resilience to rejection. It is impossible to put yourself out there, whether you want to find a job, whether you want to build your network, whether you're dating, it is impossible to do this without being rejected, right? So let's, let's just presume we're talking about dating, and I'm literally one of your dating clients right now, and I come to you and I say, I've tried the apps, I've done the coffee dates, like I just, it just continues to not work out. And I just, it's me. Clearly, the only common thread here is there's it's me, and it's just, there's something wrong, and I just, I don't know what else to do. Like, how do I build the resilience to this rejection and manage the fact that I'm clearly blaming myself for this?

Krysia: Oh, Zack, my heart goes out to you. I believe in you. I know that you're you just want to love and be loved like everybody else. And these dating apps are have algorithms that are not in anybody's favor. It they're they're dopamine hits that keep you going on the app, and they're not real, real conversations. So what I'd like to do with you, Zack, if you're open, is to look at what you are doing with your texts. Maybe you're just giving a Hey, baby, I don't know what you're saying. That you're not getting any feedback from let's look at your communication. How are you stepping in forward? Let's look at your dating profile. Let's look at your photos. Let's look at how you are presenting. Yourself out there, and then on a first date, let's talk about how you show up. Are you dressed to impress? Where do you meet? Let's talk about that. And if you're being ghosted, which is something that is prevalent, and it's even in business, by the way, people apply for jobs. They put their heart into that cover letter and there's no response, and it's heartbreaking. I get it. The point is, ghosting says more about them than it is about your value, and that's where I need to help you believe in yourself, that you are worthy, even though we have this mindset or story, this little voice that is so old since we were children, thinking we're not good enough. Look at your story. Look at your history. You are good enough. Your friends love you, your family loves you, your ex partner still probably loved you at some point, and you just haven't met the right person. So let's make sure we take you to the right places, where the statistics and the odds are in your favor, where you feel more comfortable and confident. And let's just do it together. I'll even stand beside you. We'll go to we'll go to a coffee shop, and I want you to start communicating with women. Let's see how you are, how are, how's your posture, how's your confidence. Let's pretend you're Superman, like, put your chest out. Remember you and I did that, Zack, you had me stand up, and you said, Okay, stand proud. I remember that. So it's very much about mindset. And we as coaches, we have to believe in you, and if you don't have someone in your corner, please, please find a community of people who believe in you, whether it's a coach or best friend or family members, but don't hang out with people who don't believe in you, because you need as many as much resilience as possible.

Zack Arnold: Yeah. So clearly you and I are working from the same playbook, where without belief, the strategies, the tactics, the tools, the apps, none of that really matters, and it's so hard to find that belief and that self worth. And I feel that everybody has it inside of them. And again, I really think there's tremendous value in having that outside perspective. For you as a dating coach, for example, being able to reflect and allow that person to see the value that they're not seeing themselves. But here's where I want to, again, get back to the kind of the tactical level. And I think what you said here is everything, it's how you're presenting yourself. This is again, where I think the professional networking scene and the personal dating scene are all but identical. It's all about how you're presenting yourself, but it's not about what are all the things that I need to say? What am I supposed to do to get the job, or what am I supposed to do to get on all the dates, or get the pretty girls or guys or whatever it is, whatever your preference might be, right? So let's talk about, I would presume that you and I are also working from the same playbook, that when you present yourself, it has to be in an authentic way. So if we're talking about how to present ourselves, if we're getting constant rejections or we just find we're going on dates or going on meetings or job interviews, and it's like, I just feel like I keep meeting the wrong people, what does it say about the way that we're presenting ourselves? What are some of the most common pitfalls that you're seeing in the way that people present themselves,

Krysia: We often wear masks to show our best selves or what we may think the other person wants, so we may not be our real selves. I know when I was dating, I would text my date who might be at a restaurant waiting for me, I would I would text early, saying, you know, I'm really nervous. I'm excited to meet you, but I'm also very nervous, and that set the tone even before I even walked in the door, and when I did see that person, it was a big hug or a hello, and it was like meeting a friend so vulnerability, whether it be dating, I'm not saying, Put your trauma on the table. Okay, that we're not going to trauma bond in any way, shape or form, in work or in personal. That is not the first thing I'm saying. I'm just saying, Be real. To say I'm really glad to meet you. I've done research on your company or all of the work you've done, and how did you do that? Like, when you worked on that scene, or you did that creative thing, where did that idea come from? That lights them up, and then that creates, you know, hours go by and all of a sudden, wow, wow. This was awesome.

Zack Arnold: I love this strategy. This is something that I've never heard of before. And by the way, if I had a time machine, I would love to go back 20 years and have had your help through the entire dating process again. Luckily, you know, found the woman of my dreams and have been happily married for almost 20 years. But that process, it's just one of the most traumatic experiences of my life, like five. Five years of just dejection and feeling like I'm broken, I'm unlovable, like it was. It was a horrible experience. So needless to say, you would have been wonderful to have in my life 20 years ago. But the strategy, I love this. It's so simple, and I want to break this down, and I want to better understand how it works. The I just wanted to let you know I'm really nervous because I'm excited to meet you. That's brilliant. And I also think that could very much be used in the context of professional relationships or even interviews. But I Where did this idea initially come from? I'm fascinated by this tactic.

Krysia: Ah, I just made it up.

Zack Arnold: You just made it up. That's That's amazing to me, because there's so many levels to why I think this can be so beneficial, so maybe we can break it down together. The first thing that I love about it is that it creates a level of vulnerability, right? And again, it goes back to this idea of I really believe one of the core components of building lasting relationships in any context is your ability to be vulnerable with that person. The faster you can be vulnerable. And again, it's not going deep down in all of your you know, worst, darkest traumas. But if you can be a little vulnerable and essentially say, You know what, I'm human, here are some of the things I'm struggling with, immediately, people gravitate to that. If they're struggling with similar things, right? They're empathetic. So I would like if I were to get a text from somebody and I'm like, waiting for the day. I'm like, oh my god, I'm so nervous. I'm such a dweeb. She's going to think I'm such a nerd. I look so stupid. She's not going to like me, just like all the other dates. But if she sent me a message saying wanted to let you know I'm excited to see you, but I'm also nervous, oh my god, that would have changed the game for me, because now all of a sudden it's like, oh, walls come down. I'm nervous too, you. Oh my god, right, but I can totally see this working in a professional setting. I don't I think it's, it's harder to be vulnerable, especially in a professional setting, because you're supposed to have it all figured out. I'm the solution to your problems. You know, rather you hire me, because I'm going to do all these things. But I still believe there's a level of vulnerability that can be valuable, even in that context, as long as it's played well. You know, there's a very fine line you'd have to walk, but I can very much seeing this strategy work for interviews or professional meetings too

Krysia: well. Remember, a lot of the people were be who are interviewing us are gig workers too. So it's like they're human too.

Zack Arnold: All right. So now we've gone through this process, and I've both kind of connected with people in my existing network, again, professionally, personally, whoever's listening, whatever your challenge is, this will work in any of those contexts. Now I've decided to start putting myself out there, and I'm starting to present myself in a different way, right? So now, how do I get a better sense of who's actually a match and who isn't? Rather than anybody that's going to accept me. I will immediately accept them because I'm so desperate for a date, or I'm so desperate for a gig, like, at some point we have to be willing to say, You know what, this isn't a good fit for me. How do we start to recognize what's a yes and what's a no when things have been dry for so long?

Krysia: Well, I'm just going to say, take the gig if you have to pay your rent.

Zack Arnold: And there's no shame in that. By the way, I'm going to second that with you. There's no shame in taking a paycheck job.

Krysia: That's true. Take it if you've got babies to feed, do it. And remember, you don't have to be there forever. If it doesn't work out, give your two weeks notice, but in the meantime, keep networking. You. I remember getting this was when the housing crisis ended. I was working on an HGTV show, and the producers came to me said, we want to renew your your contract, but we're going to cut your rate by 30% and you should be lucky, because we're in a recession. I was appalled, and I immediately called My favorite producer and said, I really miss working with you. I sent a message, and you know what she said, Oh my gosh, we just need someone. Could you please be the third editor? And I just gave my notice, and I was gone, but that's our my self esteem kicked in, you see? And this is where someone who needs to believe in yourself, whether, if you don't, you need someone else to believe in you, to say that's not okay, because they start undercutting and that's something I want everyone to realize, if there is a lack of work and there's a lot of unemployed people, producers or companies, we're going to start cutting your rate because they know someone is going to take it. And that undercuts all of us for years to come. I've seen it so many times.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I wrote an article about this four years ago, actually, yeah, four and a half years ago now, right the smack dab in the middle of the pandemic in 2020 about this idea that normal wasn't working and we don't want to go back to it ended up even completely me, putting in no effort whatsoever. I literally posted it in our Slack community. One of my students shared it five days later, 150,000 1000 people had read it completely blew up in our industry because we were fed up with the way that things were working. But I had a warning. I said, if we don't address this, the exploitation will exponentially get worse. Here we are, four years later, and essentially the word on the street is you should be lucky to take this job. But whether it's 2535 50% less your rate, because if you don't take it and you do open play by our rules, I have 100 people on my stack of resumes that'll do it tomorrow. So here we are, four years later, this rampant exploitation, and yes, there's no shame in taking the paycheck job if you need it. But there also has to be a level of intuition that says this is not the right fit. This is somebody taking advantage of me and exploiting my value, and I bring more value than this. Yep. So, so now let's go to the there's one more kind of level to this that I want to go to, and that is yes, if you're putting yourself out there and somebody's willing to accept you, and you desperately need it, say yes, for whatever the minimum amount of time is to support yourself, support your family. But now let's say we're in a position where we're fortunate enough that we can say no to the wrong things, and we have a little bit of a nest egg or a foundation to be able to be a little bit more choosy. Again, whether it's professional or personal, how do you help somebody better understand what's the right fit or intuitively, even if the opportunity is there, maybe this is a no like I could go on dates with plenty of beautiful women, not that I ever have and not that I ever would. But there's a difference between, ooh, they accept me, versus this is actually, I think this is a mutual fit. How do you know? How do you just know? Well,

Krysia: that's a process, and that's what I developed, three date method. We go through our values, and I think we did that together with you when I was coaching with you the values of our head. So what's important on paper? And there's probably a lot, but we narrow it down to the top five, and then we look at what's important for your communication, or for you to feel in your heart that you are fully seen, heard and understood again, there are things unique to that person, and we narrow it down to five, and then we get down to the chemistry. What are the five most important things? And then we list those, and then it's another digging down process. Is it really true? Do you really need someone who's blonde and blue eyed. Really? Do you really need someone who's six feet tall, but if they have everything else? And then we play a game when we start dating, where three dates we check off and we ask curious questions, flirty questions, to try to discern whether they are fit or not, and you don't go on a date if there's any, if there's a red flag or no to any of them, you abort the mission, not date that person again. They are not your fit. So it's a real discerning strategy. It's very fast, but take it back to editing. I remember interviewing for a job. It was a plastic surgery show. Those

Zack Arnold: would be some fun raw dailies. And I went, Oh,

Krysia: I'm sorry. They gave me an episode to watch. I said, I can't do that. I can't I can't do that. Or, or if someone said, Do you want to cut a porn, a soft porn? Maybe, I don't know. Maybe depends on if it's not graphic, okay, maybe if there's a story behind it,

Zack Arnold: which, again, comes back to your own values and knowing what your values are. But

Krysia: if you need the money, take the gig and then keep looking.

Zack Arnold: So this is going to be a little bit of a random question, but this is, again, me just being curious. You're very systematic about this. You've got check boxes. You've got this, this three date method. So I want to know, Do you believe in love at first sight?

Krysia: Yeah, I believe in chemistry at first sight.

Zack Arnold: What's the difference?

Krysia: Well, because, uh, love is a drug. It's actually a chemical reaction that we have in our body that makes our frontal our brain, um, not function very well. Yeah, no kidding. So when we have the love drug in our system, which could last up to three months, we don't always see the red flags. So having stuff written on paper is vital, because we might overlook things because we're just not thinking the love drug is bubbling through our system. And then, usually, after month three, you start seeing clearly you go, why this person isn't even a match? So that's why I have a checklist. It has to be strategic because of the love drug factor. I

Zack Arnold: love that. I love that approach, and here's why I love it so much, because, again, dating and networking are the exact same process where you can see a movie or a director on a panel or a TV show, and it's love at first sight. Oh my god, I have to. Work with this person. Oh, my God, I must be a part of this show, right? I had that, had my own experience of that. I've talked for years and years about my journey to working on Cobra Kai, and I was unaware of that show. Didn't know that it existed. So as soon as the first season came out on YouTube, this was years before it was a Netflix show. It was on YouTube Red, which isn't even a thing anymore, love at first sight. 15 minutes into the pilot, I'm like, Oh, my God, this show was made for me. I must work on it. Oh, hold on a second. There are certain criteria and values that must be met if the show is a good fit. And it was having that criteria where it wasn't just a matter of whatever it takes, I'm gonna work on this. It's under the right circumstances. This is my dream job, and it was about the nature of the relationship with the showrunners, what their expectations were, the hours, their collaborative process, what they expected of me. Am I going to be able to maintain my value of being a present father and husband? So even though it was love at first sight, if I didn't have that criteria, I might have just jumped in head first, because when I was on Empire, it was basically, it wasn't even love at first sight. It was just more lust. It was more Oh my god. This is going to be a huge hit, and everybody's going to watch it, and this is going to be a career changing credit on my resume, all of which were true, but it also brought me into the deepest, darkest hole that I've ever been in, personally, because I wasn't looking at all the criteria, and I missed all the red flags. All right, so that's why I think your approach to understanding chemistry at first sighted, love at first sight is great, but you gotta have these criteria to keep yourself honest.

Krysia: That was a great way to bring that together. I love that. Yeah,

Zack Arnold: that's why they now call me Zack GPT. I literally have my little summarizer here in our group called Zack GPT to take all my notes, but yeah, now my students say, I need, I need Zack GPT to summarize all this for me so. But that kind of comes back to this general theme that we've had to wrap it up is that in my own process of trying to understand myself being a Zack of all trades, like you look at me on paper, my resume, my experience, genre agnostic, but I just kind of bounce all over the place. My entire resume is very scattershot. But what I found is my specialization across all those generalizations is my ability to synthesize complex ideas and story points into something that's very simple to enter, very simple to understand, right? So that's kind of where the the moniker Zack GPT came from. Now with chat GPT, kind of, you know, clearly summarizing everything, but that's where, again, I think that your unique specialization, or your master of one, is your ability to be able to help somebody else reflect their values, reflect where they can be valuable to others and how to craft that story, whether you're an editor, whether you're dealing with psychology, whether you're dealing with real estate and dealing with renters, all of that, it seems to me that where you really specialize, and probably also why you've been able to create the relationship of your dreams now is your ability to understand the power of story and how to present yourself and present your story. So are there any other components where you believe that you really have that unique specialization that's made you successful in all of these various endeavors?

Krysia: I just believe in myself when it came from my family, hard working people, we got to believe, and if I didn't believe, I wouldn't even try. So keep trying, because you're worthy. This is your life, and I want you to succeed in whatever turns you on, whether it's a life partner or a gig or you pivot to something even better that you never thought of before. I just want the best for you,

Zack Arnold: and I so I'm going to add one, one layer on top of that. I don't think it's just your your specialization across all of these areas, because you believe in yourself. I think you really, truly believe in others. I bet you truly believe that as an editor, when you're working with a director, a story producer, the show runner, you truly believe in their story, and you want to be a part of it, right? You truly believe that these dogs deserve a home. You truly believe that your renters really deserve to be in the space that you're creating for them. Or you truly believe that your clients, when they're looking for love or looking for dating, and they're just like, This is hopeless, you're like, Nope, I believe in you, and I believe that you deserve it. To me, I think that's really where you differentiate yourself from everybody, is that I really sense this strong belief, not just in yourself, but in those that you work with.

Krysia: Yeah? And to tie the two together, we all want to love and be loved, and in the edit suite, or whatever creative work we are we're doing, we all want to have a purpose, and we want to give back, and by having a purpose that builds our self esteem by reaching out and doing warm calls or cold calls, we're also building our self esteem because we took the chance that we had the courage and those baby steps build on each other. And you go, Oh, I didn't die when I did that, I actually went online and said. Hello to some lady on match I didn't die, and that builds our resilience, and that builds our confidence and our self esteem that we are worthy. So keep building on those little things, because they really make a difference.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, could not agree more, and this is where we transition to what I call the shameless self promotion portion of the program, which is, I want to make sure that anybody that literally is looking for dating coaching or dating advice, they know how to find you. They know how to connect with you. I know you also have a free gift the 10x your online dating matches overnight. But something tells me that a lot of this, again, as we've discussed, could probably be translated over into professional networking and relationship building. So how do people find you, connect with you and get your gifts literally?

Krysia: I invite you to contact me if you have anything you want, if you have any questions, if you want to reach out, date your destiny.com. Date your destiny.com. Or if you want to check out my genre agnostic editing portfolio, that is sizzle dash editing.com you could reach me there too. So it's sizzle dash editing.com I would love to hear from you if you have any comments, or if you want to chat about anything, I'm here for you. Thank you.

Zack Arnold: Well, Krysia, I can't. I can't. Thank you enough for being willing to take the time to chat with me today. Thank you for having the confidence and the belief in me years and years ago when behind the scenes, you were ready to sign up and work with me. And I'm thinking, Who the hell am I to think that I can help this other person like she's got more experience in the industry than I am, like she's in Toronto and I'm in Los Angeles. Who the hell do I think I am to get on a zoom call and try and make her life just a little bit better? But way back in those days, you believed in me, and somehow, here I am. So I very much appreciate all that you know, all the connections we made over the years, and so excited about all the things you've accomplished and what you will continue to accomplish.

Krysia: Well, thank you so much. Zack. I look forward to listening to the podcasts as they come forward and how your newsletters really inspire you doing good work for everyone. Thank you for believing in all of us.

Zack Arnold: I continue to need to hear that every single day, so I appreciate that. Thank you.

Zack Arnold

[CASE STUDY] How to Diversify Your Creative Skills and Experience to Build Multiple Income Streams | with Krysia Szyszlo

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