Episode Highlights

• The role luck played in making Marc’s job connections
• What gave Marc the confidence to say ‘yes’ to a high profile opportunity
• Why Marc thinks the Assistant Editor route is what’s best for him
• The importance of narrowing down who you want to work with
• How Marc shortened his 5-year plan of sitting in the editor’s chair to just 2 years
• The big difference between doing the hard work and allowing yourself to be exploited
• The importance of surrounding yourself with the right people
• The course in the Optimize Yourself program that made Marc land his dream job
• The mindset shift Marc needed to help nail his toughest job interview

About Guest

Marc Wiltshire is a Film & Television Editor known for Wu-Tang: An American Saga, BEL-AIR, and Lee Daniels’ STAR.

Born in Montreal, Canada, now residing in Los Angeles, Marc initially found his passion for storytelling through writing, leading him to write and direct several short films. While editing his first short film on a 16mm Steenbeck, Marc discovered his passion for Film Editing. He is committed to making bold choices, protecting the story, and bringing the best version of the filmmaker’s vision to life.

An alumnus of NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts Graduate Film Department, Marc worked closely with Oliver Stone and Todd Solondz in the making of his short film My Avatar, which premiered at the Fantasia Film Festival in 2011. His film Bullshit (2016) became a hit on the festival circuit, winning awards in Canada, the United States, and Australia.

Prior to moving to LA, Marc lived in Singapore for four years editing dozens of short films, commercials, music videos, and documentaries.

An avid cinephile and record collector, you can find Marc at the movies every week.

Connect on Twitter, Follow our guest on Instagram, Linkedin, Click to visit our guest’s website

Transcript

Zack Arnold: I'm here today with television editor Marc Wiltshire whose recent credits include Bel-Air, Wu Tang, An American Saga as well as Star. Marc, you were also an AE and worked alongside Susan Vaill, who by the way, shameless self promotion is a fellow podcast guest on the show. And one of my favorite people in the industry, you work alongside Susan, on the first season of the very prestigious award winning HBOs Hacks. And most importantly, the reason that you're here today is you're a very highly valued member of the Optimizer community. So Marc, it has been a long time coming, but I knew the day would come when we will be telling your story on the show. So here we are.

Marc Wiltshire: Zack it is like a bucket list item to be here. So thank you so much. Yeah, you're

Zack Arnold: Yeah, you're more than welcome. And you have really planted your flag in our wins channel, you kind of snuck in under the radar, because I've got a lot of people that I've worked with in small group classes that I've worked with privately that really dig into the program. And they're willing to play the long game and get results. But Marc just kind of snuck in under the radar, and said, I'm just going to do some of the self guided classes and use some of these resources and just occasionally pop into office hours. And then all of a sudden, you said, hey guys out of my way, I'm just going to take over the winds channel for a while. So we're going to talk about how you made a lot of that happen, because you really kind of, you know, set the community on fire. And you've really made some major strides in your career over the last few years. But you've also gone through a lot of challenges and a lot of struggles to get where you are. And I want to talk about both of those things. One of those things that I you may not even realize or know that much about is that even before we really connected, I knew a lot about your career journey already, because we've worked with a lot of the same people. So I you know, talked about the process of you working with Joe Leonard more than once. I know that you worked on Star with my former assistant turned editor Natalie Boschan. So I actually kind of knew of you and knew of your journey and a lot of those challenges before we ever connected. So I was very excited when I finally saw your name on the roster is like oh, cool, I get to be a little part of Marc's journey. So. So having having settled that, I know that you've now become quite the seasoned veteran of doing the podcast circuit. But we're probably not going to talk too much today about the actual shows or the creative process. And I'll make sure that we put some links in the show notes to some of the other really great shows that you've done talking about the craft. Today we're going to talk about the journey. So I would love to know if we're if we're going to start from the beginning, what would you consider the start of Marc Wiltshire origin story from making the transition from Canadian citizen to big time Hollywood television editor?

Marc Wiltshire: Well, thank you for that amazing introduction. I mean, just let me start by saying that it's been like an absolute pleasure to be part of the community. Likewise, I've known about you for many years before even joining and you know, always had an interest in your podcasts, and then your, your, your courses, everything that you were offering through Optimize Yourself. And so it was a no brainer, once I got to the right place where I felt like, Okay, I need some extra guidance in my specific goals. And I knew exactly where to go, you know, so I'm very grateful for your, your community, even before I joined it, but um, what was shocking was actually I like once I joined just how much more valuable it was than I even had imagined. My journey was, you know, somewhat unconventional, I guess, compared to an American citizen trying to move out here. But especially because, you know, I bought let me let me go back to the beginning, I was obsessed with moviemaking. Since I was like eight years old, I kind of knew I want to work in that world in some capacity. And initially, I thought it'd be an actor, and then realize that you can't make a living as an actor. So maybe that's not the best approach. Maybe if I'm a director, I can put myself in movies, and then I can still do the acting thing. And, you know, through through various short films and lots of hard work and going to film school and, you know, making films as a director, I learned over and over again, about failure. And maybe I'm not the greatest director that's ever come out of film school. But what I learned through those projects was I might be a good editor, because I know how to like piece together something out of a pile of crap that I you know, thought was something and that's that's sort of how my journey started in the editing world was just recognizing that there was, there was something I had, I had a skill set of looking at footage. And just like I when I was a kid building Lego blocks, I was like, I have an idea of what we need to do here. And so I can just piece this in a different way and get the result that I want. So yeah, I mean The film school that I went to, you know, so I left candidate actually go to Singapore, and live there for four years because NYU had opened up a brand new graduate Film School in Singapore. And long story short, I was dating someone who broke my heart at the airport in Hong Kong. And that's when I decided, Okay, I'm going to she was going back to Canada, and I decided, You know what, I'm gonna stay here in Asia, and be as far away from that person as possible, and go to this film school, and took a leap of faith because I knew inherently living in Singapore is not going to lead to my dream job of working in Hollywood as an editor, or as a filmmaker, anything. But I sort of figured, when else am I going to go have that experience living in Asia. So I did that. And the beautiful thing about it is that I ultimately did, you know, move to Hollywood, and had no other context other than those people that I had spent four years with, and this little tiny island in the middle of Southeast Asia. So we were very, very close and helped each other out when we landed in LA. And that was kind of the beginning of my, my journey, as an editor was through this very odd, roundabout experience of going to live in Asia for four years. And ironically, that's where I got my first credit, as a, as an editor on a feature film, was working on a documentary about graffiti art, all over Southeast Asia, I handled the Singapore section of it, which was a very unusual section, because Singapore is notorious for not having any graffiti art. And so that kinda was a very interesting entry point into editing documentaries, I went back to Canada did that a little bit before finally landing in LA, but that that documentary was very music heavy. And it just led to a bunch of music based projects. And so I often think if I hadn't lived in Singapore, maybe I wouldn't have, you know, been on this journey of editing music based projects. So yeah, I basically moved out to LA finally, when I got a visa and was able to start my career. And, you know, I knew right away, I had to start as an assistant. Just kind of accepted, that was going to be the easiest route for me to get to the editor chair, based on all the interviews I've listened to and what I had read. And so but you know, I wasn't a young guy, either. I was a little bit concerned about ageism. And maybe I wouldn't be considered a good candidate with so little experience at, you know, being in my early 30s. Already. That was incorrect. It turns out that, you know, age is less important as personality and drive and passion and wanting to do the right thing. So how I ended up meeting Joe is such an interesting leap, or turn of faith. It was at an NYU screening. And prior to that, so I had tried to reach Joe Leonard for nearly a year, I had been emailing him doing the cold outreach. He was on a list of NYU mentors that lived in LA, and they were editors. And I was like, well, there's like three of these people. He's one of them, you know, I emailed all of them. didn't get any response from anybody. And through another contact, he also tried to connect me to this editor he knew who was working on Empire turned out to be Joe Leonard, I was like, I'm trying to contact this guy already. Perfect. Okay, so I've got a couple of ways in and still nothing. Eight months later, after that first email, I get this email from him. Hey, I'm so sorry. I've been buried in work on finally coming up for somewhere. I'd love to meet you. Are you going to go to this NYU screening next week? I'm going to be there. And I said, Yeah, I've got a I've got a short film that's gonna be playing at that screening, actually. And sure enough, he showed up texted me when he got there. He says, I'm sitting in the back, I'll see you after the show. Screening went great. I ended up winning the editing award for that film. It was a nice, you know, entry point into meeting this person. But the real kicker was he came to me after the screening and said, Marc, this is insane. Your film was so good and so well edited. But beyond that, it's almost identical in terms of story to the pilot that I just cut. And I needed an assistant on this pilot who can cut because I really want to like mentor and bring someone in who can do this stuff. You've proven you can do it. You've got the music performance, you've got you know, dramatic acting. This is dynamite. Do you want to be my assistant? We just met like literally that moment. But it was again, it's all about like luck is is a combination of opportunity and you know being in the right place at the right time. Right and It just worked out so beautifully. But it also helped that I had been preparing myself to be an assistant and I had been doing the research of what that would entail. And so when I finally met this guy, I had the confidence to say, Yeah, I could do this, I can absolutely do this, and I'm going to kill it. And I'm going to do a good job. And, you know, I was very apprehensive my first day because I came in when they had already started. And I had no idea what a turnover meant. And they were sending the cut out to the studio network that night, and Joe was going out to some parties, so he had to leave early and just left me the keys to the car and said, Oh, can figure it out? Yeah, that was the scariest day of my life, and like they're gonna, I'm gonna get fired. On my first job. In Hollywood, this is terrible. But, you know, luckily, it was willing to be humble and go talk to other systems and say, I don't know what I'm doing here. Please save me, and show me what I'm supposed to be doing. And, you know, I've managed to fake it until I made it eventually, you know, no one, no one ever thought I couldn't do it. And that was the nice thing. But it was a lot of pretending to know what I'm doing and figuring it out as I go. But yeah, that was sort of the the genesis of my journey.

Zack Arnold: I love it. Give it given how much you and I have already worked together and talked, I'm fascinated by the fact that I knew almost none of that. That is such such an amazing story I didn't know about the, you know, going to film school in Asia and living in Singapore. And I knew very little of that story. So I was just as enthralled and sucked in as I'm sure as anybody else was. Because when when I hear from a lot of prospective students, or just people that I talked to in the industry, almost everybody says the same thing at the beginning of their story. Well, my story is a little bit unconventional. And it's a little bit all over the place. And my response is, everybody's story is unconventional, and all over the place, because we all have our own unique paths. And we all go in all these different directions. But yours actually is an unconventional version of the unconventional story, which I love, because it's one thing to come from a different country from Canada to break into the industry. But you took a very circuitous route, to decide I'm going to come from Canada to Hollywood via Singapore. So I would say you're probably the first person that I've ever met that has that accreditation on their resume. And the part that I want to dig into next is you said something very, very specific. They're really, really keyed into the reason that we're here today. And you said, I decided to become an assistant because that seemed to be number one, the easiest approach. And number two, what everybody told me I was supposed to do. And this is actually a two part series that I'm doing with two different students in the program, one of whom did the exact opposite, where everybody told her that you have to become an assistant, you have to, quote unquote, take a step back. And I hate it when people say that. But it just seems like it's such an absolute obvious piece of advice that everybody says, Well, how do I break into scripted as an editor, you have to become an assistant. And I have just adamantly and categorically said, That is not true. It doesn't mean that it's not the most common path. And it doesn't mean that it isn't the easiest path. But it isn't the only path. So I wanted to make sure that in talking about Melinda's own version of an unconventional path, we now talk about yours, which seems like the conventional one, but still is a totally unconventional one. So let's go back to that point, where you first come to the industry, you already have a credit as an editor where you're working in the documentary space, and it doesn't surprise me that you're doing something that's related to where you came from. Because that was the experience that you already had. That's where you had interest in transferable skills, and you could start to gain some of that experience that you didn't have. But was there ever a point at which where you asked yourself? Do I even want to go the assistant route? And you did it because you had to, versus I actually think this is the best fit for me?

Marc Wiltshire: Absolutely. It was not an easy decision. Because again, like I mentioned, you know, I was 32 I think when I moved to LA, and had been cutting, you know, for a couple of years at that point in Canada and in Asia. I mean, that's all I was doing. In my time in film school in Asia was cutting all these short films and getting any big project that I got an opportunity to be involved in. I was I was doing all that stuff. And so the notion of like, yeah, sure enough, like taking a step back. It seemed like oh, man, is this does that mean? I'm going to be held back for 10 years? And then by then I'm 40? And am I even going to be cutting at all because then I'll be too old to be considered and, you know, all these doubts and concerns were kind of flooding over my my mind. What I think triggered me to make the decision for the path that I made was, I think, you know, like you pointed out, it is a simpler path. I think people are more likely to hire you as an assistant and then from there, you know, if you do everything right, and if luck comes in and all these things happen, you know, maybe you'll be able to cut but I'll Some knew enough about the TV landscape versus feature films. And understanding that in TV, you can move up much faster than you can in a feature film world. So that was the kind of probably like, my conscious strategy was okay, I can, I'm willing to be an assistant, knowing that odds are if I, if I play my cards, right, and if I work really hard, I can be cutting in five years, maybe, you know, that was that was the that was sort of the five year plan, if you will, was I thought to myself, Okay, I'll give this a shot. Worst case scenario, I can probably move out to Canada and edit documentaries, and be an editor and, or, you know, stay here and edit something. Either way, I knew I had a skill. So I wasn't too worried about doing the work. But I just knew what I wanted to do was work on large projects, big scale projects, be them TV, that I was really inspired by, or our features. And I was willing to play the long game to get there. You know, I also thought, there's a lot you can learn about editing, without a lot of the pressure when you're an assistant. And having not lived here, not you know, a lot of people go to film school in LA and so you're exposed to a lot of panels or access to people who can teach you things. I didn't really get that in Singapore, that was it was such a different industry in Asia. And NYU is very much like an independent filmmaker type of education. So you're really just like going out there and figuring things out. So I all that to say I didn't really have the the ground base understanding of what editing feature films or, you know, high scale television meant any television for that matter. And so I figured, you know, I'll probably be more valuable as an editor if I learn a little bit under somebody first. And then I can, you know, go in more confidently and say, I actually know how all this works. I didn't know any of it worked. Even as an assistant, right? I was like, Oh, am I gonna get fired? Right? That was my concern on day one. So I figured quickly, okay, you know, what I have so much to learn that it's not doesn't even feel like a step down. Because this is already so much of a step up from any other project I've worked on. And knowing that I had skills and you know, again, I got lucky meeting an editor who was willing to hire an assistant who wants to cut and she wanted to give me opportunities to cut and that was a big two way road for me, knowing that even if it's not my name on the on the credits, that I get to play that I get to have an opportunity to actually try things to get some feedback and learn how to cut TV, it was a no brainer as a way to to start my career. But that was also I think, a really important part of the journey, when deciding to be an assistant is narrowing down editors that would nurture that goal. And I think that's a huge, huge component of of having the career you want, is recognizing opportunities that are a good fit for you. And some that just may not be. And I had interviewed for big feature films as a second assistant and didn't get the job. And I think it would have been a cool experience. But looking back on that now, I realize, I wouldn't have really learned much about the editing of the project, because I would have been so busy just scripting, you know, the footage. And I knew that opportunity would not lead to any cutting at all. So I think just knowing what you want to be doing and where you're at, at at any given point is important and like recognizing what opportunities are going to be a lateral move, or if it is going to be a move up, even if it isn't as an assistant. That's exactly what it was, for me working as an assistant for Joe, he gave me a lot of opportunities to cut and make mistakes, you know, really, you know, learn how to cut a certain style without the pressure of failing. And I think that's that's important when you're starting out is that you want to start on the right foot, and you want to make sure you're building relationships with producers and showrunners that they recognize your contribution without seeing the flaws in those early days.

Zack Arnold: Yeah. So there's a whole lot that I want to break down in here that I think is going to be tremendously valuable. And I think that you can you can speak to the nuances of a lot of very common questions and give people answers that they just frankly, can't get from most other people. So I think that the stuff that I want to dig into next, I think is going to be just a variety of gold nuggets for anybody that's asking a question is going the assistant route the right fit or not? And I want to also add that caveat that this is not the question, do I have to be an assistant editor to be an editor this can apply to so many different crafts, whether it's should I be a writer's assistant or a composer's assistant or a first ad whatever it might be? I think that the the challenges inherent in post production and the editing path are similar to very many others, which is that you've thrown a lot you've thrown around the word luck, several times now and I think you already know that you're digging yourself a little bit of a hole with the way that I feel about the term luck. And it's not to say that luck doesn't exist. But when you had said, Well, I certainly was lucky that I ran into this editor. And this editor gave me the opportunity to be as assistant Well, yeah, that's because you spent a year starting the relationship via cold outreach. And even though the timing was bad, you were still making an impression. And I don't think that if you had just showed up at that Film Festival, cold, and you bumped into Joe, he would have said the same thing. So I don't think you got nearly as lucky as you might say. And your your head shaking says, do you agree with that, but I think

Marc Wiltshire: It's a taboo word to use luck, and I'm not using it appropriately.

Zack Arnold: Let me say this, I don't believe it's a taboo word. I believe that the word luck is an excuse for people to use that aren't achieving the goals that they want to achieve. Everybody else is just getting lucky, and I'm unlucky. So it's not that luck doesn't exist, I just think that we spent far too much of our energy using as an excuse, when things are going poorly. And I think that your luck was a lot of hard work that met with the right timing and the right opportunity. And the part that I wanted to get into that I think is so valuable, is not this idea of, well, if I'm an Assistant Editor for five years, I'm gonna move into the editors chair, because there's no guarantee of that whatsoever. And what I think you noticed, and we're very astutely recognizing is that working as Joe Leonard's assistant editor was a path to editing because of how he was willing to mentor you and give you the opportunity to cut. But what I want to talk about is just one of the areas that I'm so frustrated by the way that our industry has devolved, not evolved, but devolved is the fact that you can be an assistant editor your entire career. And you can be great at what you do as an assistant editor. And none of what you do makes you a better editor. Because it's become so technical. And so data driven, and so much about management and organization and turnovers and visual effects lists. So you can be immensely good and competent at your job. And nothing that you're doing makes you a better editor. So your choice of working with somebody that was going to shepherd the creative side of things is a huge portion of this. So talk to me a little bit more about once you're actually in the assistant editor's chair, realizing that I've got years ahead of me of doing a bunch of jobs and tasks and projects that I frankly have probably no interest in doing. And I need to find some way to get value out of this towards the editor's chair, because this is a component, I think that so many people miss, they assume I'm an Assistant Editor for X number of years, and I am entitled to the editor's chair, not even remotely true.

Marc Wiltshire: Not remotely true. And in fact, what can happen is you you spend too much time as an assistant that you end up not being seen as an editor at all. And that's the biggest danger. Because if you know you are an editor at heart, and that's what you've been doing on shorts or whatever projects, and now you know, you're like me, you're trying to use this opportunity as an assistant to learn and move up in the industry. You really got to be trigger foot, like super hyper focused on the goal, the ultimate goal of being in that editing chair, and how are you going to do that because it is so easy. And I've seen a lot of people get stuck in just one job after another as an assistant, because we get very comfortable and complacent. And, you know, we all need to work. And so you you start putting money ahead of the right show or the right opportunities. But it's also it is a matter of reaching out to the right people as well. I knew that Joe was going to be someone, even just as on a mentor level, someone who could guide me and figure out how to get to my goals. And I think that's one of the biggest components is recognizing what opportunities are more likely to give you the knowledge and the experience that you want. But beyond that, I mean, it wasn't like it was just because I had a great editor who was very nurturing. You know, it was a lot of hard work of proving myself so cutting recaps, you know, I was cutting every single recap not only for my episodes, other assistants didn't want to do it or didn't have the same ambitions to become editors. I'd volunteer I'd be like, I'll cut it. I'll cut that recap no Bronk Give it to me. If there was a blooper reel to be cut, I volunteered right away, I raised my hand and said, I will absolutely do this. I want to do this. So I just use any opportunity I had to show that I wanted to cut not just to Joe Joe knew it was about the producers. It was about the showrunner, beyond that enthusiasm. You know, this is pre pandemic. So we were working in offices, and I was always the last one to leave. And I was often the first one to be there. And when I would leave the showrunner would still be in her office writing and she would see me and I would say goodnight and she would recognize it's 9pm and Marc is still here. Why is he here, he doesn't need to be here. But I was because I wanted to, you know, cut some scenes do whatever extra curricular work I could do. And it wasn't like I was doing it intentionally to get her attention. But I did eventually realize, like, Oh, she must be recognizing that I'm here, you know, so this is probably worth it. It's all calculated in that sense of like, is this all worth my time and energy. But it was also, you know, the post producer would absolutely recognize my contribution and my extra work, that extra effort, I knew it was for that purpose of proving myself to everyone around me that I am not only hard working, but I'm, I've got something to offer, that I have value in my editing, and making sure that they knew what I had cut. Or if I if I cut a scene, I mean, I got lucky as well. And there's that word again, you know, working with Joe did give me some unique opportunities, because he was very close with Lee Daniels, who was the creator of star. And so he had a little bit of sway as far as asking the producers to give me a co edited credit. So on the season finale of season one, the first season of, you know, scripted TV I'm working on, I got a credit credit on that episode. And then season two came along. And same thing happened a couple of times. So I'm very grateful that, you know, he was willing to go to bat for me, and actually get that, that credit that, you know, that's what we all really need to be seen as editors. And so, but again, it didn't happen in a bottle, I was putting in the work, I was putting in the weekends doing like a lot of free labor. In hindsight, I certainly couldn't do it now with a child, it was lucky that I was, you know, just fresh off the boat and trying to do anything I can to to make it in America, right, that was the American dream. So I, I accepted the fact that I might have to work way beyond basic hours. In order to achieve that I just presentation of myself, but it depends, you know, like he saw it, and he was willing to go to bat for me, and then the producers saw it as well. And so I think if you're if you're surrounded by people that you believe, have your best interest or who, you know, believe in how and helping others and nurturing, I do strongly believe, showing hard work and doing the hard work will pay off. I think it's really easy to say, you know, no one's ever gonna notice. I don't want to work that hard, I don't want to like work the weekends, I'd rather have a life, I get it. I think work life balance is one of the most important things in our industry. But at the same time, I think when you're starting out, you have to accept that no matter what industry you're even in, no matter what position you're in, if you decided I'm going to go straight into editing, from you know, unscripted, I'm going to just make it as an editor unscripted, you can probably do it, but it doesn't change the fact that you're gonna have to work really, really hard way harder than people that have been doing it for 10 years, just to earn the right to, you know, call yourself that and say, I, I'm better than anyone else on your resume list, I'm the one you're gonna want to hire. And this is why, and these people will attest to that. So you do need to work really hard. And, and I, I believe that's that was the secret sauce, for me, getting the bump ups the opportunities I got.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, so the basically what you're talking about are these two concepts that are thrown around all the time, which are that you have to prove yourself, and you've got to pay your dues. And both of these things are in direct opposition to this idea of work life balance, which clearly, I am a fan of, you know, the the general concept of work life balance, and have talked many times about how I think it's not necessarily even the term or the ideal that we should be working towards. That's a conversation for you know, another TED Talk and another soapbox that I won't go into right now. But there is no denying, it doesn't matter what craft, what sector of the industry or even what industry, there's a period where you have to prove your value. And you're going to have to pay your dues. But the line that I always talk about not crossing is there's a difference between like you said, I'm basically just highlighting and packaging what you've already mentioned, there's a difference between I'm proving myself around people that recognize it, and that value it and that respect me versus paying my dues means I have to let people exploit me it take advantage of me and force me to do things that are well beyond any boundary that I set are communicated. And it sounds like probably for the most part and I've I've worked on lead annual shows and I know how high profile and how high stress and how crazy that environment can be in the network world. But at the end of the day, I feel that when you're in that position where you have to really prove yourself as long as people recognize it, it doesn't make you any less tired or exhausted. But it's a huge difference between I'm wiped out but that was worth it. Versus I am totally burned out because they are exploiting me. Take it did taking advantage of me, and why am I even here. So it sounds like a really big component of how you were able to prove yourself and leverage that was simply the people that you were surrounded with.

Marc Wiltshire: And I should mention that I spent at least 10 years being exploited and working my butt off on things that never paid off, you know, so it wasn't like, I just got that idea. When I came here and started doing it. No, it was like, Okay, I understand, I accept that. That's a fact. But by the time I did work on Star worked with Joe, I had already kind of figured out, like, how to determine the difference between someone who is going to actually help your career and someone who's just exploiting you, I hated, you know, getting job postings were like great exposure, you know, or like, work for free, and it'll be a great opportunity, it's like those never turned out to be a great opportunity. In fact, that's like, almost a golden rule now is like, if you're not even going to pay someone lunch, or, or give them any kind of return for their hard work, they're probably not that invested in you to begin with, and they're not going to do very much for you. And that was like a long, hard road to come to that realization. So yes, I think it was definitely the right combination. When I when I joined Joe, and met the team and saw the potential of you know, these peoples really care about making a good product. And also having a good work culture. That's that was a big motivating factor to okay, you know, what this, these people are people, I want to be around for years and years, and I haven't even I mean, I'm still very close friends, with a lot of those same people, we have dinners together, we don't even work together. And we wish we did. So it was a great, you know, culture. And I think that's, that's, that's probably the most important thing, as far as the combination of your hard work and your willing ness to to bring your all that's the other component is making sure that it is going to be recognized and pay off.

Zack Arnold: So from the first morning that you're in the assistant editors chair, and they say we need you to do return overs and exports, and I'll see you tomorrow, let me know how it goes from that day, to the day where you sat in the editor's chair as an editor no longer as a co editor or helping out but where you are an actual editor. What was the time span between those two moments?

Marc Wiltshire: Two full seasons? I'll start so roughly two years, I guess. With the hiatuses

Zack Arnold: It's an accelerated version of your five year plan.

Marc Wiltshire: Yeah, I mean, that's even when I got that first credit credit. I certainly didn't expect that to happen in my first year working in scripted television. That was actually a little bit stressful. Because after that happened, it was the season finale, I started feeling this pressure. Should I just be going after editing jobs. Now? That became the question. And then luckily, you know, smartly, I decided, You know what, there's plenty there's still to learn. There's still plenty of proof. I gotta put in my pudding. So yeah, I waited and did season two, but I, you know, yeah, I think by the time I was doing season two, and I got a couple more codec credits, I had decided either I'm going to go be an assistant on another show and learn from more people because I kind of had one editor that shepherded me in this TV world. Or, you know, I'm going to try to really get bumped up. And I mean, the thing is, I got bumped up. And I got the season three spot because some editors weren't coming back. And I knew the show, because I had worked on it since the pilot. So I had this added advantage coming in. It wasn't like any of us going on to a new to us show. Even if it's second season, third season, if it's new to you, you have a lot to figure out and learn. I didn't have to have that runway. I had been doing it. I knew the show like the back of my hand, I understood all of the tricks. So I had a pretty good successful run and that season. And I thought, okay, here we go. I'm on my way. And then the show got cancelled after season three. And that's when I realized like, oh, you know what, it's not that easy to just keep cutting, and get hired by other people who've never worked with you. When you have one show under your belt. They

Zack Arnold: They always say the second one's the hardest. The second one's way harder than the first and nobody believed it until they're there.

Marc Wiltshire: Yeah, but but also, for better or worse. I mean, I don't know how much it really factors in but the fact that I had come from being an assistant on that show to getting bumped up. It also kind of lowers the value of it in the eyes of someone who doesn't know you because they're sort of like, well, okay, I mean, they already knew you. So you didn't you didn't just like blow them away with some other project like you earned your way up the ranks. We don't really want to like, take a risk, you know, so getting that second spot was tricky. And yeah, it was kind of like a harrowing experience that summer realizing I may not get another editing job, and I have, and at that point, I had a one year old child, you know, so there was no more like, oh, it's all good. I'll just, like, wait it out, and I'll hustle. And I'll try to you know, and I was like, I need a job. And I also realized I had worked on one show, you know, I didn't, I didn't feel like I knew enough at that point where I could jump into any show cold, and kill it, and be and be great. Maybe I could have maybe it was a confidence thing. But a part of me just sort of, at that point felt like, I still have a lot to learn. And also, knowing that I wanted to work on really high and HBO level shows, you know, and I'm like, I'm not gonna get that was one credit on, you know, it was so little experience. And more importantly, I had no network, because I only knew that people that I had worked with for three years. And that's a huge part of getting recommended for a job is people know, you know, and I didn't know enough people. And so I just quickly accepted, okay, you know, what I'm just gonna, like, find another great editor who's going to be you know, nurturing and mentoring, and just do do the assistant thing again, and I accepted to take that step back down, you know, in quotes. And luckily, it was a very positive experience. I mean, actually, it's many thanks to Susan Vaill, who had already been a mentor to me at that point, I had met her at an event and and she quickly volunteered herself to be my mentor. When I got bumped up, basically, like the day I found out, I got bumped up on Star, I met Susan Vaill and told her about that, because we had met once casually, and she right away, spent 30 minutes talking to me giving me unsolicited advice that changed my life forever. And I and she said with sincerity, contact me stay in touch with me, like, let me know what's going on. I want to help you. And so she held herself to that. And when I was in this position, she's helped me find that editor. She says, I can't hire you. I don't I have someone right now. But I'm going to look around. She connected me with Philip Harrison, who was a brilliant editor. And he was going to do a limited series with Kate Mara called a teacher. That's a whole side story. Coincidentally, I dated a girl who was roommates with the filmmaker. And she had made her first feature called a teacher 10 years prior, which I had seen. So when I meet Philip, I'm like, I've seen this movie. All right, I know exactly the filmmaker, I understand her style, I understand what she's doing. The TV show was just an adaptation of the film that she had made. So I already had a lot like in the game, you know, and I was excited about it. I liked that movie. And so the interview went really well. And he hired me right away. And I did that for him. And then when that was wrapping up, I called Susan, that was great experience, I learned a lot I was able to expand my network. Not a whole lot of cutting opportunities because of the the nature of the show. But nonetheless, very valuable experiences and assistant to learn how a very different type of show operates was very different. It was one filmmaker for the entire series, it was just a very different approach from working on network TV on star. This was a Hulu series, you know. And so I learned a lot. And when that wrapped up, I called Susan to say thank you again, and just to update her on how it all went. And that day, she happened to have gone to an interview. And she was just telling me about it. And in the conversation. She was like, you know, it's this music show. I've never really done that. Hold on a second, you've done that. You can help me figure this out. Wait a minute, do you want to be my assistant. And just like that, she she offered me the job when my job was ending. And I was like, This is amazing. Yes. And not only that, she was like, it's a pilot. And if it goes, I'm going to tell them to hire you to be the editor, and it's just gonna be great. And everything's gonna work out amazing. And I was like, boom, boom, boom, this is all working, my life is going great. So we planned for that we prepare for it. The job is going to start in March 2020. It's going to be amazing. We are going to have an awesome time. Two days before the job starts, everything gets shut down. And none of us have a job for what nine months or something. But luckily for me, when, you know the job never went away. Pandemic was winding down and they were starting to pick up production. And you know, she called me said Yeah, it looks like it's going to happen. We're going to start in December I was like, awesome, great. I need a job this perfect. And and the same plan, you know is in place, you know, we're hopefully going to bump you up and all that. And then two weeks before the job starts. She says I just got a call. They're offering me a show with Jean smart. It's this comedy, and I've never heard of it and I don't know what thing much about it, do you want to do it? It's for HBO. And I was like, Yeah, let's do it, I don't care. And she was like, I'm not gonna be able to give you the same kind of bump up opportunity, maybe. But you know, I'll definitely give you stuff to card and it'll be, you know, very, very, I'm gonna do everything I can to help you. And I said, Honestly, I don't even care. Like, that's the kind of thing I love being smart. And I just want to do HBO type content. So it sounds like a great opportunity. And that was hex. And so that ended up being an amazing journey. Where once again, I was put to the test, I was given a lot of opportunity to cut to prove myself. We were working remote for the first time. And that was a challenge for everyone, the filmmakers especially. And but it was very advantageous to me in the sense that, due to the nature of the pandemic, shooting, they were shooting six days a week, we had to work six days a week for the entire duration of the run. And in order to not burn out. Susan needed me to like help out, you know, and so, and also there were three showrunners. And they wanted to work a lot and fasts in multiple different zoom rooms. And so they just said, can we just work with Marc for the day in one room, and we'll work with you in a different room. And so I got a lot of opportunity to end up cutting with them to work with them closely. And they saw you know, how hard I was working and what I was able to contribute. And, you know, they even sent me a plaque from the academy after they won an Emmy. thanking me, which is like the nicest thing any employer has ever done. Yeah.

Zack Arnold: That's pretty impressive that they're recognizing, quote unquote, assistant for that effort is pretty, pretty unusual.

Marc Wiltshire: Very unusual.

Zack Arnold: You sure are a lucky guy, Marc.

Marc Wiltshire: I know, right?

Zack Arnold: It's just a lucky guy.

Marc Wiltshire: Luck, guys. That's all it is just luck. No, it was hard work. I mean, that show burned us both out. But I think ultimately, we're very proud of it. Obviously, you know, even a week until it aired, no one had talked about it. And we were like, oh my god is this thing, just gonna get buried in the algorithm and no one's gonna ever know about it. And luckily, that didn't happen. And it's, you know, people knew that it was good, because we knew we're making it as like, this is the best thing I've ever worked on, you know, hands down. So it was very rewarding and the nicest people I've ever worked for. And, you know, but like, again, it was like, not another co edit or anything, I didn't really have any more leverage. And after that experience, I really, I would have followed Susan anywhere. Actually, I was happy to but I was getting to the point where it's like, Okay, I've been back to assisting for two years after editing for one year. This isn't exactly the trajectory I was hoping for. And then here's that word again, Zack. I got lucky. No. I stayed in touch. I'm joking. I stayed in touch with the showrunner from star over over the years, you know, when I wasn't editing anymore, I just want to make sure stayed on her mind enough. Let her know I still exist. I'm alive. And I had read in the trades that she had a show that was going that got greenlit that she had created. So I sent her my congratulations did my my warm outreach. When that came out, and then followed up, you know, just letting her know, hey, by the way, like I would die to work with you in a heartbeat. I would absolutely just love love love to work with you again, which is true and sincere. And you know, it's such a it worked out beautifully that it was the same post producer from star who was going to that. And we had, you know, tried to find other projects to work on together. And she just mentioned my name to her and we had a meeting and it wasn't I thought it was gonna be an interview. And it was it was just, you know, casual meeting. Let's catch up. What do you been up to? Not worked on this show with Jean smart, you know, and the center stuff and yeah, I'm just you know, enjoying being a dad, whatever. It was like, so Okay, great. I mean, did you read the script? Do you like it? Do you want it? Do you want to do the job? Do you want it? And I was like, Uh huh, yeah. Cool. Okay, let's do it. And that was, and then I was back in the editing chair, in which was at four. And that was for our kind of people, which was unfortunately, just a one season short lived show for Fox. But you know, another great experience and, and working with her again, was was lovely. And, you know, my same Star Pose team. And it was very, like, it felt like being very much at home in a safe space. So getting back into the editing chair, you know, almost like a nice, soft landing. While then again, it was a very challenging show, but at least I was surrounded by the right people, and felt this was going to be a good experience. And that went well. And then the next thing I did was Wu Tang and I've been cutting since. So that's

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I think we might go a little bit more. A little more. I think a little bit. Yeah, you yatta yatta the best part. As a side note, you haven't mentioned the name. I'm assuming that you're talking about Wendy Calhoun. Yes?

Marc Wiltshire: No. I know Wendy, but what was Wendy's connection?

Zack Arnold: She was the she created our kind of people. She might not have been the showrunner. Oh, she wasn't an exact horse. Yeah, she was an executive producer, writer on Empire. I don't know if she was involved with Star or not. But I know that she was the original creator or developer of Our Kinds of People. Yes.

Marc Wiltshire: Yes. Correct. So she developed it and with with Karen Gist who was the showrunner.

Zack Arnold: Exactly. So that the only reason I bring that up? Well, two reasons. One is shameless self promotion. I have one of my favorite podcast interviews is with Wendy Calhoun talking about her journey breaking into the industry how she became a staff writer than an executive producer than a showrunner. The other reason is, just to highlight how insanely small this industry is. Wendy gave my gave me my very first editing job,

Marc Wiltshire: No way right.

Zack Arnold: Right out of college. So I know I've known Wendy longer than pretty much anybody in this entire industry. And it just it shows how small this universe is. Because I mean, the what, what is the likelihood that you know, some random guy from Canada, that goes to Singapore to film school that now comes to La can have that kind of a connection, the same or similar, similar, similar connection that I had to somebody. And I just say that, to emphasize something that you mentioned earlier, how important and the people you surround yourself with is to the quality and direction of your career. And Wendy is just choose one of the best human beings and nicest people I've ever met. So I was hoping that you were talking, talking about Wendy and there's no connection. But you were you were talking about Karen.

Marc Wiltshire: No, but the fact that we have that connection just is incredible. But it also to me, like I take that as a testament to and I think everybody who listens to your podcast, can understand is that you just you never know who you meet is going to be a real change in your life. There's i i want to say it's a coincidence. But the fact that you and I both have shared such a similar journey and experience I think is also a testament to what most listeners probably tune in for which is like, hard work. And you know, opportunity. That's when you get lucky. Right? That's that's what that's what creates everything. So yeah, I mean, that's what an amazing coincidence.

Zack Arnold: Yeah. So so we're gonna go back to where are you yada yada. The best part? Because really, the whole reason you're here is to talk about that very small gap where you went from, I was on Our Kind of People to oh, now I'm working on both Wu Tang and Bel-Air and they're airing at the same time. And, you know, I missed her podcast A-list guest on all the major editing shows. So what we're gonna dig into, where are you yada, yada, the best part. My understanding is, and you can correct me on the timeline. But I believe this is right around the time that you just magically floated into my community, is it not?

Marc Wiltshire: It is. And I think that is also not a coincidence of how I got the job. Zack, I told you this in person, but I will say it here so that everyone knows is that I firmly believe I would not have gotten the job on Wu Tang had I not joined your community. And I mean, there were other factors that led to it. But honestly, I'll explain it in my story. But I think, at least the interview part. I got there. Because thanks, in large part, thanks to you, and one of your podcast guests and students, Chris Cavanaugh. So you know, yeah, joined your community. I think in January, it was January 2022. I believe, Ron, then it was right after I finished our kind of people. And exact I was looking for my next phase, I think we may have already known that the show got cancelled that point. So it was like, Okay, I need to figure out what I'm going to do next. And it just seemed like the perfect time to finally join this program that I had known about for years, that could help me just like map out my career and map out, you know, some kind of a plan. And it was far beyond that. I mean, I think I joined your program, like you said, just to kind of, you know, get some resources, meet some people. What I didn't expect was that it would be So concretely useful, given me step by step guides, of how to take those next steps and what to do and how to succeed in all of these steps. And so one of the main things that I focused on was, I mean, of course, cold outreach, and trying to, you know, expand my network was a big thing that was very helpful through the community. But the main thing was once I started to interview so after our kind of people, I hired an agent who I had met years before and didn't feel like I was ready. But at that point, I felt like okay, you know, I know they're not going to get me a job, but they're maybe going to help me get into the room. And I needed that So, you know, that was that was the the first step. And right away when when hiring this agent, she started saying okay, well you know, I'm gonna try to put you for interviews. And it just kind of dawned on me is like I haven't had to interview for a long time like I've known everybody, our kind of people happened very organically, I didn't really have to prepare. And so that was I guess the next thing I was like, Okay, let me just like look in the optimized community, see if there's any resources about interviewing. And I had discovered, you had built basically a mock interview course, and your advance yourself program, where you could use one of your students as a case study, Chris Cavanaugh, who was in a similar position going from, you know, being an additional or CO editor, to actually getting a spot on the show he was working on as an editor, and just wanted to prepare for this interview to know like, how to really nail it and convince them that he could do the job. And it was just like, everything you could ever possibly need to know of how to prepare for an interview was just like downloading into my brain, just like bullet point after bullet point of the buzzwords to use and how to like, sell yourself how to pitch yourself without it seeming cringy you know, it just it's like, basically list what you know, you can offer and what your take is on the show and what whatever specifics you can bring about the job. And but you know, very bullet point based, you know, not randomly talking the way it may be sounding now it was very, you know, clear, okay, I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say this. Anyway, I just took so many notes from that experience, and really felt like, if I just do exactly what Chris is doing to prepare for his interview, I'm pretty confident I'm just going to nail it. And the lesson I mean, I'm sort of gilding the lily here. The lesson, I think the main thing was trying to focus in on how you can provide value, and basically answering the question of, you know, how, how can you help me, as the employer, you know, you want to as the as the interviewee, I wanted to basically answer questions before he even needed to answer them. So basically, tell him how I can solve the problems that I know he's going to run into in the show. Before he even asked me about those concerns, in addressing his concerns before he even asked them. And so luckily, you know, for Wu Tang, it was, it was season three, so I knew, Okay, I've got a couple scenes, I can try to get some intel, as far as what challenges they've run into. Let me backtrack a little bit. This is how I ended up getting the interview to begin with, was, again, like a lot of the cold outreach work. I looked at who had cut the show. And turned out I knew one of the editors already Adrienne McNally. She, she she and I had been in the trenches together as as assistant editors on a pilot I had come in to kind of help her out. And so she always thanked me for that shows, put me on this position of like, you saved me as if like it was, on my end, I was like, You gave me a job. And I, you know, you gave me this amazing relationship with you and all that. But she always really appreciated that I had come in and helped her out. And so when I when I spoke to her about my passion for Wu Tang, and how I was like dream of working on that show, she said, You know what, I can't go back to season three. And I'm so sad, but I just can't make it. So I know there's going to be a spot. Send me your resume. When she said this to me, I happened to be wearing a Wu Tang t shirt that day. So I I said to the resume, I took a selfie. And I sent that to her. And I was like, This is amazing happenstance. I'm wearing this t shirt. She was like, I just sent this picture to the showrunner by the way. So now he knows what you look like, and he knows you're a fan. And now your resume is you know, top of the pile and I was like, Oh my goodness. Okay, so that's number one, right? Network Connect, be nice to people work hard for everyone you work for because you never know years later. They're she's an editor now. And she's in this position to help me and there you go. She was a huge, huge part of me getting in the in the mix. And then when I told my agent about this, she says, Oh, I know the post producer really well. So I'm just gonna call her right now and tell her to try to hire my client. So you know, we were able to hit them on multiple angles. And I think that was that combination was how I was able to get the call for an interview. But you know, like we've talked about many times, you can get the interview. That's that's the arguably the easier part. It's it's once you're in the room, how can you convince these people that you can do it that you're the right fit? And Wu Tang was arguably the hardest interview I've ever had. The showrunner really grilled me he asked me about hip hop about what music I was listening to when I was growing up. He asked me about On my connection to Wu Tang, he asked specific routine questions to make sure I actually wasn't faking that I liked them that you know, actually knew what I was talking about. And, you know, I had been preparing, I read roses books before this interview happened, I had taken copious notes about all these like little intricate stories. And I knew this the show really well. So all of these things were really crucial in going into this interview, I had actually watched the show, he grilled me about that, too. He asked me a lot of specific questions. You know, what was your favorite episode? And you know, what, what stories Did you like the most? What did you connect with the most? What do you think you can bring to the table and season three, and so on? And I had already kind of had questions prepared like, well, you know, season two ended here. And I assume season three and season two ends, right? Where they released their first album, so I knew Okay, season three, I guess it's gonna be about now they're famous. And now the struggles with that. And what's, what's that going to be like? Is it gonna be the five year plan, which is something Reza mentions in his book, when he made a deal with all the members, he said, Give me your life for five years. And you know, had them all sign a contract that he basically owned them for five years, and then they could do whatever they want. And so that was exactly what the season was going to be about. It was like, Yeah, we're gonna follow from Wu Tang 36 chambers until Wu Tang forever. That journey of these guys basically growing into their own finding. So solo careers not having those solo careers, and all this stuff that happened. So yeah, like all of this preparation, allowed me to go into the interview with confidence that at the very least I understood the content that we were going to be talking about, and the style, and I understood the why we had a lot of notes about the things I liked about certain episodes, they had animation sequences, they had homage as to certain movies, and I could comment on those things. And I'm a huge cinephile. So I was really able to dig deep into like, the references that I picked up on these obscure movies and all that stuff was helpful to know in advance, you know, going into this interview, but again, all of this, I think, was thanks to like listening to Chris Cavanaugh's. whole spiel, and not not just him. I mean, of course, like, a lot of those sessions, it was three, two hour sessions, I think. And you would be playing the interviewer and you would ask these hardball questions. And these No, I agree, and I grill the hell out of it, you grill the hell out of him. And so I just assumed after watching that, that's like, that's what the interview is going to be like. And so it was great, because most of the viewers actually haven't been that hard. But that one was the Wu Tang one was, and so it didn't throw me off, you know, where I think it would have had I not had that experience watching you and Chris, go through every possible scenario that could go in this interview. Where could you love it? Where How could you answer this thing better? And you guys did the same kind of interview multiple times. And I saw Chris, progress through his answers, how he would answer them, what specific details he would mention in them. And but also like the brevity of the answers, and the focus, and especially, everything seemed to be linked to an opportunity to provide value in the answer. So sort of like, if he's asking about this episode. Well, I can talk about that. And I can also say, you know, this is how inspired I got, and, you know, I did this short film A while ago that had music. And this is what I did for that to solve this problem. And I knew also speaking to Adrian, and I think I had spoken to Debbie, you know, one of your other members of our community, who had worked on the show as well. In my research, I was asking a bunch of questions to editors. And that was, you know, one of the things asked, like, what were the challenges? What were the things that they didn't like, that didn't work out? Well, and having an understanding of some of the challenges with certain cast members, was really helpful, because I could just naturally weave that into my answers about any challenges I've had that I what give me an example of how you solved a problem on a show. I think that might have been an actual question he asked me, and so I just jumped into, you know, well, there was this one time where we had a lot of actors that couldn't really act or, you know, on Star, we had a lot of rappers who are not actors, but they would come onto the show because it was a music show. And we would have to shape around their performances a lot because they would add live or they wouldn't really stick to their lines, and they didn't really know how to stay in character, they would just sort of go off and be themselves for a moment in the middle of a take. And all these things, you know, inside just knew how to like shape around performance without losing the momentum of the storytelling. And I could just see his eyes light up because he was you're, you're literally saying exactly what I'm worried about right now. And And that was a light bulb moment I could see in his mind of like, okay, okay, maybe this is a good fit, you know. So knowing what challenges they are going to be dealing with, if you can naturally weave it in without saying that you already know that, I think is a huge win when you're in an interview setting. And that yeah, that I think was like the clincher for me.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, well, you, you definitely have overcome yada yada being the best part, tons and tons of amazing details in there, I'm going to come back and do what I do best, which is summarize in bullet point it, because there's a lot of really good strategies that I have in that like four or five, six, plus our case study that I did with Chris Cavanaugh. And as a side note, more shameless self promotion, also have a full length interview with Chris Cavanaugh, because you may not know this, but Chris is literally the very first student of this program. And in being the very first student in this program, he ended up being my assistant editor on Cobra Kai for two seasons, because similar to you really proved himself and that even though he was he was on the editor path. He knew that being an assistant editor with which for him, probably the best fit based on lifestyle needs in the areas of the industry that he wanted to learn. So I think that he's the perfect analog for where you were in your journey. But if I'm going to summarize this down to the simplest version of all, this is great Marc. But what what did i What did you actually do to make this interview so successful? And I want to, I want to break it down into its component parts, the first of which, and I remember you and I had a couple of hot seats while we were preparing you for this interview. And the first one was what I told you, what I tell so many of my other students is that you have to shift your mindset, realizing this isn't about you. We think that we go into the interview, and it's, here's why I'm the best candidate, here are my qualifications and why you should pay attention to me and why you should pick me. And as you learn that, as we talked about, when you're at the beginning of your career, even at the beginning of the stage of your career, your basic skills and qualifications are important. But you knew going into the room at Wu Tang, you were up against a whole bunch of other editors that met all of the same qualifications that you did. And you had to differentiate yourself. And the way to differentiate yourself is to make it clear that it's not about me, and I'm not selling myself, it's I'm presenting myself as the solution to your problems. So you and I workshop multiple times was crawling into the brain of the showrunner, what keeps this person up at night, one of the things you identified is we've got a lot of non professional actors, and I need somebody that understands that the challenge, and they can shape their performance. So it doesn't surprise me that when you zeroed in on that, as opposed to well, you know, I've worked on shows like star and our kind of people and I've done network stuff, and I'm really good at what I do, and I meet my deadlines, and I'm good at taking notes. It was instead I'm going to crawl inside your brain. And I'm just going to twist that knife that keeps you up at night. And I'm going to tell you why you don't need to worry about that problem. If I'm on your team. Alright, because ultimately, the other thing I want to make sure that you and just about anybody else needs to address is the elephant in the room. You had an elephant in the room, which was I don't really have a lot of experience. And this is a pretty high profile show. So why are we even talking today. And that was another area that by identifying these challenges, and taking all this other experience that you had in, I would guess that even the documentary experience and all the music experience was hugely valuable. And what I have found is that the better we are at extracting all of the parts of our story, whether it's our past work experience, our transferable skills, just our interest in our passions and our hobbies. If you had all the qualifications that you did, but you would never heard of Wu Tang probably wouldn't have gotten the job. So if we take those areas, we've got work experience, we've got transferable skills, we have passions and interests, and we have character traits. And for you, obviously the one that floats to the top of the page is hard working, and we'll do whatever it takes. You take those four different Venn diagrams, and you look at the intersection of all four of those in the middle. Is there anybody else that's a better fit to solve the problems on Wu Tang than you? I would argue no. And that was the story that you told.

Marc Wiltshire: Yeah, I mean, that's certainly the story I told myself and tried to convey and yeah, luckily, it worked out. But yes, I mean, I think that that was the key component is taking myself out of that equation. Because ultimately, and even I think I knew at this point in my career, that there are lots of other people out there who could do this job. And arguably better or, you know, on paper would prove themselves to be better. But I also knew I really wanted this so bad more than anything I've ever wanted, because I am such a massive Wu Tang fan since I was like 11 years old. And that was actually something I was able to bring to the to the interview in the beginning when he said like so you know, what's your relationship to Bhutan? And I made a very clear, you know, this isn't just like something I got into recently. Now like, I am a lifelong fan, similar to how this was my Cobra Kai, you know, this was my karate kid moment. And we talked about that a lot. Because it's almost like, Okay, you got to temper yourself, you got to make, make sure you're not going to geek out too hard. But you do want to make it clear. Like, I'm not just here because I'm a fan of your show, or I it sounds cool. It's like, No, this is I am meant to be here with you doing this. So I certainly wanted to make that part clear. But then beyond that, that was sort of the meat part of it. And beyond that, I really did want to make sure I was just available to his needs and their needs. And whatever it is that they were struggling with, that I knew confidently I could solve those problems for them. It's absolutely the number one thing for any interview I go into now is I just think, How can I help you? And you know, will we be a good fit to each other for this because it's a two way street. But ultimately, it's your show, and I just have to come here to try to help you get to your your endgame.

Zack Arnold: Well, as I'm sure you've heard me say, and whether it's a job interview prep, or anybody put together a resume getting ready for any kind of a meeting, whatever it might be, I say callously and very honestly, that nobody cares about your hopes and dreams. Does the showrunner of Wu Tang, care about your hopes and dreams is an editor that really I don't know this person, I'm not making any judgment about them personally, they don't care about your hopes and dreams, what they care about are their hopes and dreams. They have a vision, and they have problems and obstacles that are stopping them from their vision. So it's their hero's journey, you are the guide, you are the mentor. And as soon as people realize that mindset shift the job interview game changes. But it's a hard one, because we're told you got to brand yourself, and you got to pitch yourself and you got to sell yourself and you got to be the best candidate. And it's a zero sum game. And there's only so many opportunities, and you just got to claw and scrape and step over people. And you got to make sure that people recognize you. And I just don't believe any of that has to be true. And you sir, are proof positive that it doesn't have to be in you ended up landing a dream gig by simply being the solution to somebody's problems. So having said all of that, I want to wrap it up with one final question. And I'm pretty sure I already know the answer. And I'm pretty sure the other listeners can surmise what the answer might be. But I think it's still very valuable for anybody that is in that similar crossroads of I know where I want to go, but should I go the assistant route? And whatever craft it is? Or should I just learn the craft and do the craft. So if we put you want a time machine, and you're gonna go back to talk to, you know, a younger, less wise, less experienced Marc, and he's debating, do I really want to go the assistant route? Or do I just want to cut? Knowing what you know, now, how would you advise yourself?

Marc Wiltshire: I wouldn't change anything about my journey. But that's my journey, you know, so I can't I can't say it's a blanket statement, I definitely did the right thing, and everyone should follow that path. But I know for me at that point in my life, I had so much to learn. And I I'm I feel confident that I wouldn't have reached my dream job. As quickly had I just stayed in editing and not had the assistant experience because what I learned from other editors who had decades of experience combined, right? I just I don't I don't know how else I would have learned those things. And I'm not just talking about like editing skills, I think you can learn a lot from videos and books and all that sort of stuff. It's especially the etiquette, the politics, the working in the room with various personalities, the expectations at different levels and different stages of the process. There's so many things, these little nuances that even if you asked an editor who was willing to teach you, they might not even think about that stuff. It's just what happens because it's it's different every time. And I think that is a huge part of my journey of staying humble and making sure that I always have more to learn. So I wouldn't change my path at all. But I do want to just make it clear, it's not like that's a one size fits all. Because I have seen a lot of editors who just stayed editing and they've also had their own, you know, fortuitous opportunities, if you will. So it really depends on the path. I think the main thing that the main takeaway in either path that you choose is just do your best to remain positive and and kind to everyone that you meet because you really don't know if that post PA is going to end up being a post producer in five years and could be in a position to hire you. I think that's a number one. You know, put your ego aside. It's not Your project, you're working for other people. And you need to understand that you are a problem solver and not the filmmaker. But that being said, I mean, I think there's tremendous value in both tracks and I wouldn't change a thing. I'm very happy with the way that things will go.

Zack Arnold: Well, I would say that that's a very good to do list to check off each of the boxes so that you can get lucky and become an overnight success. Here you are, right piece of cake. So having said all that, given how valuable the networking process has been for you in the process of building relationships, for those that are listening today that are inspired, where can they learn more about you? And how can they connect?

Marc Wiltshire: So you can always connect with me on social media, I try to be as active as I can I even check my LinkedIn, which many of us in our industry don't. But I do

Zack Arnold: LinkedIn. I'll put it I'll put a link in the show notes to what LinkedIn is because people in our industry, they avoid it like the plague.

Marc Wiltshire: Yeah, but you know what, it's funny when I first came to LA, even before I moved here, that's actually how I connected with a few assistant editors. So you never really know who uses what service and think it's a good idea to broaden as many of your your outlets as possible. So I try to keep LinkedIn up and running. Because once in a while, there are people that do contact me that way. So I try to check that you can find them on Facebook, Instagram, my Instagram and Twitter accounts are at flamousse F L A M O U S S E. And other than that, you can check my website, which is in the process of being built marcwiltshire.com. And my IMDB.

Zack Arnold: Nice. Well, my guess is we could do an entire part two about the origin of your twitter and instagram handles. But we won't go there today. But Marc it has been a tremendous pleasure getting to know you better, and being a very small part of this journey and everything that you've accomplished. It's been great working with you and looking forward to seeing what comes next. So having said that, really appreciate your time and your expertise today and very happy that you could be here to inspire my audience. So thank you.

Marc Wiltshire: Well, thank you Zack, and you're you're much bigger than just a little part of my journey. So thank you for everything.

Episode Credits

This episode was edited by Curtis Fritsch, and the show notes were prepared by Debby Germino and published by Glen McNiel.

The original music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Joe Trapanese (who is quite possibly one of the most talented composers on the face of the planet).