William Zabka on Managing Overnight Success, Choosing the Right Opportunities (to Avoid Being Pigeonholed), Staying Creative, and Balancing Fatherhood with Hollywood

About Episode

My guest today is William Zabka who is best known for his portrayal of Johnny Lawrence both in Cobra Kai and the Karate Kid movies. While Johnny is the quintessential 80’s bully, William is the complete polar opposite of that character. The bully you love to hate is actually a passionate filmmaker and dedicated family man who has overcome the challenges and obstacles of the wildly fickle entertainment industry.

We discuss his commitment to sticking to his values and what he did during the seemingly big gap in his career from Karate Kid to more than 30 years later resurfacing in Cobra Kai. He talks openly about the tough decisions to turn down jobs that weren’t a good fit while struggling with feelings of doubt.

Throughout our conversation, William shares his first hand experiences on some of the principles I teach in the Optimizer Coaching and Mentorship program like shifting your mindset to work in your favor, staying authentic to your values, facing your fears head on. And having said that, I hope this conversation will leave you inspired to pursue your biggest dreams.

Transcript

Zack Arnold: I'm here today with William Zabka, who frankly requires no introduction. But if like his character Johnny Lawrence, you've just recently been introduced to this thing called the internet. Billy is currently the star of the hit Netflix series Cobra Kai alongside of course, his partner in crime, Ralph Macchio, who shameless promotion was also recently guest on the podcast. Billy, you are also widely known as the quintessential bad guy bully character from all of the best 80s movies, including back to school, just one of the guys and of course, obviously the Karate Kid. However, the reason that we are here today is that we're going to chat about the renaissance man, Billy Zabka, who is also a screenwriter, a director, a producer, a musician. And by the way, this one's really going to pick up the ears of my listeners, you're also an editor. I am just absolutely dying to dig in all that and more. But first of all, longtime coming lots of emails back and forth. Lots of scheduling conflicts were finally finally on Zoom. can't thank you enough for your time.

William Zabka: Awesome. Thanks so much for that good to be here. Finally. Yeah, many, many seasons where be like, we got to do this. We got to do this. And now's the sweet spot. So it's good to get to do this with you, man.

Zack Arnold: Yep. So now we're finally here. And the place that I want to start is I think that it's going to be a similar place that I had to start when I first joined the show. And I think the impression that so many people have is and I'm gonna basically I'm going to quote Marc Maron, because he nobody has put it any better than Marc Maron his interviews, he discovered Cobra Kai. And he said that the way that Billy was playing this washed up old broken Johnny Lawrence, he got it right. And you got to write so quickly. I just assumed that this had to be his life. And when you watch both what you did with Johnny as a kid, and now Johnny is an adult in Cobra Kai, you're just like, I mean, he's got to be like this, right? Because it just it feels so real and authentic. So let's just start the conversation by decoupling. John and Lawrence from Billy Zabka. Because they're worlds apart.

William Zabka: Johnny is the he's like, I use my alter ego. And he's also he's as far as the east is from the west as far as who I am in real life. So yeah. But yeah, Mark was great. The way I play Johnny in the Karate Kid was, you know, he's 18 years old, and I was the, the antagonist. And I had to have a view of you know, where that came from. And I gave him a backstory of, he had no father increase was his Sensei, and he was his father's mentor, but he was never a bad guy. Like, I always felt like he was misled. So the way I could do it as Billy Zabka when I read The Karate Kid script, I was like, Okay, I'm never gonna get this. First of all, I don't know karate and never rode a motorcycle. He's a jerk, he's a jerk. He's a jerk. And then when I get to the last page, when Chris says, Sweep the leg, and then he doesn't want to, he's reluctant. And then at the end, when he hands him the trophy, and so those are the two like points in the story in the script, where I'm like, oh, that's Johnny. And that's the part of me that I can kind of step into the skin of this guy, and I gotta reverse engineer them, and kind of play the antagonist against the hero until the end. And then, of course, take the kick. So like, from the beginning, I always had to put I'm like, Okay, so the seed of the sky is an evil he's not through and through bad. So that's the, that's the, that's the soul of Johnny. And Johnny was just built by the way, he was raised by a stepdad and didn't have the father figure and through experiences, but now we've got Cobra Kai 30 years of life, which I've lived. So I bring all 30 years of my road, my off road and my jeep and through the, through the wilderness, and to the mountaintops, and through the deserts and all those things, you know, and I get, and I've experienced those things, and, and I get to play him. So Billy is, is that much more evolved. So now I can take some of the those compressed, painful real experiences I've had in my life and, and beautiful experiences in raising a godson and didn't have a father and, you know, just all that, you know, the all that and bring it into Cobra Kai and just sit in that so. Yeah, so you know, listen, acting is is about identifying the piece of the character that is you, and you That is him. And then, you know, compartmentalizing that and shoving the rest of it away. And sitting in that pocket. And then the trick of doing that is after a long time, because it takes a while to get comfortable with like literally resting in that and trusting that and you know, and take a chance and go you know, so I remember season one like in the in the episode where he walks into the dealership to see Daniel for the first time and how Daniel's like, hey, you know, it's just a guy kicked his ass and, and everybody's goofing on him. And there was different ways to go. And he's like, Hey, Johnny, how are you? Like, he could have fronted and been like, Hey, man, I'm good, I'm good. But the more the more bigger chance was to sit in the pocket of kind of the down part of that and be just more in the belly and more honest and so little bit of both Did you know you bring, you know, that's acting. But yeah, and then that set the tone for the show. For me, it was really those scenes and the only way that I knew that they were working was by hearing the, the creators, the producers or writers behind the lens behind the monitors, laughing their asses off in the back room. And I'm like, Okay, so as much as this is painful for me and for Johnny, this is working. And so yeah, he's nothing like me, I'm not, you know, I don't drink the I'm not that guy. But I know that guy. And in the sense is, you know, as I've played him, since I've been, you know, kid, I've been my other other half in a weird way. You know, I know him very well. And I, and I try to not play him, I don't play him, I am him. I, I find those pieces. And that's part of my process is to push out. Billy, I always say when I come back from a season that, you know, there's 2% of me that remains and I have to decompress and reconnect to, to all my other synapses in my world, my family, my friends, and, you know, in kind of purge, Gianni Atomy. And the writers take me on this crazy journey that I dive into with my whole heart and mind, and you got to do it this way. And trust it in your hands at the end. You know.

Zack Arnold: I'm super glad that you brought that up. Because, as I mentioned you before, and for anybody that kind of doesn't know the super brief version of how I ended up in this universe. randomly see a thumbnail in the sidebar of YouTube, thanks to the algorithm knowing me well, saying check out this trailer for this new show called Cobra Kai. And I'm like, You have got to be kidding me. How dare they? How are they going to take my childhood dreams? Right? Like the Karate Kid was my Star Wars and they're going to destroy it. Because so many of these other 70s and 80s properties were being destroyed. Watch the trailer. And I'm like, that's actually looks pretty good. Okay, fine. I'm going to hate watch the pilot, because there's no way it's as good as the trailer. Hate watch the pilot. And of course, by the end of it, I'm just like, Okay, so I'm gonna have to block out the rest of my day. And I must watch all this. And I finished season one in one viewing, like I think most of the universe did when they discovered it as well. And I stared at the screen as the credits were rolling for the end of episode 1-10. And I said, Oh, I'm editing the show, there is no question that I will be editing the show, because this is my childhood and my life. And I must be a part of this. And it wasn't just this would be awesome. It's I knew that I could actually bring value to the show. So fast forward to anybody that wants to hear the in between there, I've got a 90 minute conversation with the three creators of the show, talking about from that moment of discovery to learning on the job. But I get there. And my first day I'm like, I'm watching raw dailies of Ralph maggio and Billy Zabka, playing Daniel and Johnny and this is absolutely surreal. But what I discovered very, very quickly, is number one, how in character and how intense you are, and how well prepared you are. But then as soon as you decouple just for a second, I'm like, Whoa, Billy's totally different than Johnny, it was almost like this weird, surreal experience. So the a couple of things that I noticed right off the bat, is that you have an intense level of attention to detail, you really dive into it. And I know that you mentioned this idea of getting into the belly of the character. And another another common theme or phrase that use that I want to talk more about because it's going to apply not just to the character, but how we build the character of who we want to be in the world is this idea of finding your anchor. So talk to me a little bit more about how you find your anchor, both as a character but then we're gonna as we go on, talk more about how to really do that as ourselves as people to

William Zabka: Interesting Yeah, and you know that that anchor that kind of mentioned that sink line that you need in your life, to keep that balance and everything you know, you have to know that first of all, before you even step into a character, you, you should better hopefully, as an actor have that in your own life. Otherwise, you're just blown in the wind. So, so first, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm anchored in my life, and my real world, and my family, my values, you know, what's important to me, you know, who gets my time and attention those things. And, and so you got to know that first. And then when you have your own self put together as best as you can, then then you can go ahead and carve up, you know, another another character, and that's what's so great. I'm out. I was always when I was a kid, they used to call me Dr. Z as a kid in like, you know, youth groups and camps and things like that, because I was always I could always kind of sense. I was, like, empathetic to people. And I always could see through other people's eyes. So someone had a problem, like, go talk to doctors, even though I was 14 years old, you know, and I would like, you know, many times on river raft trips, I'm talking to the kid that's, you know, going through something and always kind of helping in like that. So I have an empathy for for people. And so with Johnny, especially since I I'm so close to him, and and love him and he's, he's broken in the stuff that the writers throw at me. I remember in season one, when they were pitching me the show and they're like, Okay, so he lives in apartment and, you know, he drinks Coors banquet. When, and you know me, and I'm like, well, where's where's the rest of the Cobras? They're like, Oh, no, they're not here yet. And I'm like, does he have any friends? Or like, No, unless they have a girlfriend? No, I'm like, Well, can you have a fish like, what he's isolated in this world. So So now I've got this core of who Johnny is, because I know him. So well, from the beginning, I've got these 30 years of of life as a person, and then they're writing in this backstory, and then it's my job to kind of narrow down and go, Okay, so where's the belly of this guy, and what's important to him? And, and, you know, and of course, I come from the era of the 80s, and the music and all that it was really easy and fun in this cathartic to go back to those times without knowing what the internet is. And, you know, with the, just the more simple kind of basic, you know, blue collar do just trying to go out there and make make a buck. And, you know, carrying wounds from his past. So you find those things and, and one way that I really do that, and it's been this way, my whole life, even in my own life, is there's like theme songs, there's music that speaks to me, like, I think very buddy, we all have our songs from the 80s. And, you know, the 90s, whatever. But there's something about those those songs that fill me up that I find inspiration. So Johnny has his own soundtrack in my head. So I will, like, I'll read the script, and I'll find the music that goes along with that scene in my head, for instance, on Season One, when at the end before the tournament, and Johnny goes in a circle and tells the kids you know, we're badass your Cobra Kai, it's this kind of, like, circle thing. And, and I heard the symphony behind it, this kind of more orchestral kind of grandiose moment of inspiration, as misguided as it was, you know, now, let's go out there and kick the shit out of everybody. Right? But you got it, you know, so. So music helps me connect with that. And even though they filled it in with like, some hard rock acid song or something, you know, but for me as an actor, it's like, you know, that's such a fun part of the discovery is finding those anchors. And I find that through music, I find that through, of course, working with the other actors and how they're, they're bouncing off like working with Ralph is great for that, and every ball to a whole cast, really. So

Zack Arnold: One of the things that I think now helps me even better understand why I gravitated to you. And now vice versa, why you're seeing a lot of similarities is that I to have almost an extreme level of empathy, where it can be a superpower, it can also emotionally be even a kryptonite to be very draining. But the reason that I've developed the podcast, the coaching program, the educational materials is because of my level of empathy for those that are struggling to design a career path or deal with all the the requirements and the crazy expectations in this industry. And I think nice, I love it. But right now, today, isn't that crazy? Essentially, the reason that I'm doing all of this is because like you I want, once you made it to a certain level, you can either enjoy the spoils of your labor and realize how miserable life is when you're just focused on the money and the cars and the awards and everything else, or you can decide to give back. And there's a moment that I maybe you remember, but you probably don't because for you, it's just another day at the office. But for me, it was a really quintessential moment. That said in a might have been the kernel of Okay, now it's time to start emailing Billy incessantly, because I need to get him on the podcast. And it was when we were screening the season four finale of Cobra Kai on the big screen at the Dolby Theatre, and there was a panel for it afterwards. I think it was during like the four year consideration, period. And I was super excited about it because episode 410 Just about leveled and killed me in the editing room. But it's also one of the things that I'm most proud of in my entire career. But what is really important to me is that there is this moment right near the end of it, where and by the way Dolby Theater was full. I mean, it was absolutely packed to the gills, all three levels. And this kid comes up near the end. And he says, Billy, I'm a big fan. Can we take a picture together? And you're like, yeah, man, let's do it. And then security's like, no, sorry, we can't even come up to the stage. He's like, Alright, we're gonna make it happen. You come up, you find me afterwards, and you're gonna leave that picture. You don't need to do that, right? You do this all day, every day. But there was something about your character that led me to believe there's something different in you than whatever the perception is, and following you on social media and seeing you at all the comic cons and everything else. You're in a position now with the level of fame you've attained. You have no business being this nice to people, but it goes back to finding your anchor and knowing who you are. Right?

William Zabka: Right, right. Well, it's about never letting go of who you are. And it's about Listen, man, this the scenery changes around you. Like it's almost like virtual reality in some ways, like, you know, like you sink or swim sometimes in this in this business. It's deserts and its mountains in this business, and it's its ups and downs and you can't believe either of them. You can't be you can't let your circumstances tell you who you are, or dictate how you should feel about yourself or how your doing, you know, even though I don't believe the lows, and I don't believe the highs, it's not even about that it's not even about anything perception wise, it's like, you know, you just have to know who you are. And, and you're getting out of it, that you love to do this. And, you know, and keep your feet on the ground. And, you know, and, and I'm like, amazed by that. And I recognize the position that I have with this specially with, with young people with kids, because I have a real big heart for kids and generally my to my own kids. And I remember when I was a kid, you know, my, my father's in the industry. My dad was the associate director of The Tonight Show that my mom wanted to teach. I was raised in the industry. And but I was on set. So all my life like I was at NBC Studios in New York when I was five years old, walking around through the doctors of soap opera, checking out the fake drinks and all this stuff. But along the way, I met some incredible people like I remember my dad did a movie with Chuck Norris called force vengeance. And I was just a young kid. And I got to go and watch him do a flying psychic through a window or something I remember being on set years before Karate Kid, and just how you know how much I looked up to him and how he was a star. I was so and he was just so real. And he just got down on my level and made me feel so warm. Another time I was look forward. 10 years old, I was a stand in on a movie called the island that Michael Richie directed starring Michael Caine and David Warner, at Universal Studios. And I was the guy that they set the lights on my dad was an ad on that. And Michael Caine and David Warner were these big movie stars. And they every morning Hello, Hello, son. How are you? And I remember, though, I remember those for the rest of my life. And you know, just how good they were. And it's like, wow, it's sometimes you pinch yourself saying, Well, I'm that guy that is some of these kids, right? You know, sometimes I'm not in the mood to be super overly accessible. But I can tell when a kid is, you know, has the look in their eyes that I had when I was their age. And I'm going to do everything in my power to break through that wall and go, no, no, no, no, this is all illusion, dude. Like, I'm still Billy, you're you. I was you, you can do what you want to do. Like, I'm always encouraging kids and, and adults, especially, especially kids that are being molded and finding their way in this world that you know, dream big. Your limitations are your own. And how you know, and you know, and go for it dream big, you know, there are no there are no limits, our limitations really are our own, you know, we work we can be our own worst enemy in so many ways. So for me, the tricks is always to, even before something good is here, a Cobra Kai or a movie or anything. It's already it's already happening. It just hasn't, it just hasn't landed yet. Like I already have it. The next the next project, the next thing is already in the in the tank, it's just it hasn't appeared yet. You know, and when we look back in my life or my career, and I can remember times where it's like, dude, what you know, not getting booked on anything. And, you know, this isn't working. And, you know, there's these long periods of drought. But then another mountaintop will come. And then there's another drought. And then there's a mountaintop, well, if I could stand on the mountaintop, and look back, and I could see all the peaks the whole way. That'd be like, I have nothing to worry about in those desert times. Because I know it's coming. So you have to live in your, in your heart, even though your circumstances you may be struggling, you may be you know, discouraged all those things. But really to do it in this business. Like, you have to have a laser beam focused and you have to have faith in yourself and a belief in in the universe is going to come and bring you some some say, you know, he's gonna, you know, almost not manifest your dreams, but you have to have it inside you. So, yeah, no,

Zack Arnold: I think I think it's got to be a combination of the two because there's, as I'm sure you know, even better than I do in this industry, there's so much of that. Oh, just manifest it in the secret says that it will happen, create your vision board, sit back and watch all your dreams come true, total bullshit. But then there's the other side, which is just you just grind and you work hard and you put your grind yourself in the dust and eventually that'll happen. And I don't think just that works either. It's the combination of the two where it's I have a very clear vision. I know where I want to go. But I'm willing to embrace all of the discomfort all the setbacks, like you said, I'm willing to, to live in the valleys knowing that the peaks are going to come. It's one it's one thing to say that it's another thing to totally live it. So this is going to be a little bit of a transition now to a world that I'm guessing most people are unaware of is that you're also an Oscar nominee. And you wrote and produced a short film. And my assumption is if I go on YouTube and put in you know, Billy's aapke short film, it's going to be this fun, zany, action comedy, you know, it's like this cool character and all of a sudden you're like, Oh, this must be the wrong thing. Because this has subtitles and it's European. Just this this can't be the same Billy Zabka candidate. So talk to me about the process. Making your short film, it's specifically leading to this idea of, I don't care about the setbacks because I'm in the future. And I'm at the screening already.

William Zabka: Right, right, for sure. Well, to kind of go along with the other part, as far as, like, when I was talking about the valleys and stuff, like, it's not just an acting like, you know, I didn't set out to be, you know, you know, just an actor, I went to film school before I was cast with the Karate Kid. So I didn't go to acting school. So I wanted to be a filmmaker. Since I was 10 years old, I had a film eight millimeter film camera in my hand. And so for me, and one thing my dad told me and taught me when I was young, I think it's an old Confucius saying is, you know, if you do what you love to do, and you'll never work a day in your life. And so for me, expressing myself creatively, I'm as fulfilled creatively and as a person, you know, acting or writing or producing or directing anywhere in that wheelhouse about I just knew I was going to be a storyteller, whether through a character, so yeah, so I was I went and did a short film, just based on a story I heard when I was 14 years old, that impacted me and changed my life. And my partner came to me and said, Hey, I heard this story. And I think we should make into a short film. And I said, that's, I know that story. Well, I've told it 1000 times. And so we went out and set off to Europe to go make this film. And it was just shortly after 911, like, weeks after that, we went on this location scout when nobody was flying, it was really scary to be in the air, we had a little bit of money from somebody to go and make the short film. And we ended up scouting all through Eastern Europe, like eight countries and landed in Prague, and we shuffled it in Poland, cast it as a check cast. And it was a labor of love for two years. Three years afterwards, you know, we had an insurance battle went back about a man and a drawbridge. And that was a whole other you know, it's a part of my part of my heart and character that most people don't get to see. But I got, I loved telling that story. I was going to be in it. And then I thought, you know, I mean, I was going to be on the train or somewhere. And as we were getting forward, I said, you know, I can't put myself on this canvas, I need to be on the other side completely. I think I'll interrupt my own story if I'm in it. And so, yeah, then we went in when opened doors, and then a few years later, we're walking the red carpet, the Academy Awards. It's really a miracle making this movie because it was we went out with the faith that we were it was gonna get funded, but we didn't have all the money. And we went out and we cast all these amazing top stars in the Czech Republic, we rented 1930 steam trains from Poland. We we had crews on alert, we were staying in flats in Prague that we couldn't afford, they were turning the lights off while we're texting and typing, trying to get more funding from people at home. Through Series events. It worked out and we were able to make this movie and filmed in negative 11 degrees on a drawbridge in Poland. Well, like steam trains are coming across in the moment you're referring to, is while we were at the bridge in in Poland, and we had worked for two and two and a half months, it's now winter, it's Christmas. It's like December 2, really cold. And we went to go and rent to steam train to come from Warsaw, Poland to church in Poland. And they told us it was going to cost $3,500 A day for the for the train and all the cars and everything. We went to pick it up. And they said no, we didn't say 3500. We said 35,000. So now we're in our post production budget, and we're kind of getting really railroaded from this thing. Anyway, the train gets to the bridge, we're there, we're finally set to get our first shot. And this bridge snaps and breaks. And it's $35,000 a day to stay at this bridge while they figure it out. So we were supposed to be there for one day, we end up staying there for three days, and they never fix it. So we're shooting everything around it. We're manually opening and closing the straw bridge. And we're like, well, we have to go and get insurance money and come finish this. And there's a moment that's it, I think you saw on YouTube, where I mean, this is months in the making and getting a crew from Prague through Germany into Poland and the steam train in Poland, this whole events happening at a bridge and and it breaks. But in that moment, you know, it was like you have to sometimes will things through and believe things through and in even though we're in the middle of the trenches right there and all odds were against us. I wasn't freaked out. And I was like, you know, I know that. You know, I'm not here at the bridge right now I'm, I'm at the screening. And I've just stepped back into time. And this is our situation right now. So I guess you know, play the result like see the result, your vision envision the result? Have faith in that. Yeah.

Zack Arnold: It's one thing to say the words it's another thing to live them and that was kind of the the real moment where I'm like, yep, that that's the heart of this conversation because you can tell that story when you're giving an Oscar speech or you're at an Oscar luncheon. Oh, we we knew we had to push through adversity and we knew we get here. But we're watching this video of you saying oh no, the film's already done and I'm at the screening, but the bridge doesn't even work yet and you haven't gotten the most important, pivotal moment of your entire story. You've been working for four years. And the look on your face was like, totally going to be fine. Like what? And I was just like, there's just this this stoic level of I'm going to push through to achieve my goals, no matter what it takes. There was so inspiring.

William Zabka: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's blind faith, listen it where it hurt, you know, we ended up going to having having an insurance battle. So we call this insurance company and they said, No, it's covered, don't worry about it. So we felt like Okay, let's get out of Poland and go finish our movie in Prague and then go home and and file their claim, we go home and file our claim. And within an hour, they sent it back and said, sorry, it's not insured. And we're like he told us it was. Now we had to bail him for six months, and from a little office, and we're sending him like emails after emails and finally went through the insurance contract and found a loophole. We also had a generator go down on one of the trains and like, oh, wait, one of our generators went down. We couldn't like this train car. And that affected our movie as well. So we sent them a Hail Mary and said, Listen, you know, we're in really deep on this, our 10 year old boys getting bigger, it's now summer, we have nothing better to do than to go after you for the for what we've lost in all the future games of this film. Unless you know, so then within 24 hours, they wired the money for us to go back. But we went back in the summertime. And now the trees are all green, nothing matched the lighting was wrong. We rented two fire engines to be on other sides of the bridge to wet it down just so it could match. And we stood on the bridge and we just kind of like prayed we're like, bringing the clouds bringing the rain hadn't rained all summer. And no doubt five o'clock in the morning in comes this mist over the bridge. And the in the light temperature was exactly the same through our DPS lens. And we could we sent the fire trucks home and we captured the ending of this movie in the middle of summer, and cut it together seamlessly. And so and then to show more of the adventure of that it was quite the adventure after we finished that. At the bridge. We drove back through through Germany to Poland to Prague, got our flat had all our film there and it like two in the morning we had our transpo guy pounding on our door. Like Billy Bobby, you've got to wake up the worst flood in 100 years is coming through. It hasn't stopped raining since the bridge. No kidding was 100 year flood. And the road from Prague to Dresden was underwater. Like all these bridges along the way were they're letting the animals go out of the zoo. They're like you got to leave the city. We're like, well, we have all our film cans here. Like we can't leave our stuff here. So he's like, Well, there's this place is gonna go under you guys. There's another flat across the bridge we can get you into but everybody's leaving it. So we are like, I'll take us there. So we put all our film cans we shot on a film, drive across the bridge, we walk up to this to this flat where there's a guy with the big moustache and they're sandbagging the outside of the thing, people are checking out their luggage and me my partner, Bobby walk in, and we're like, Hey, do you have any rooms because of course we have rooms safe, he says, of course it's gonna be safe. And so we ended up staying there for like, three or four nights in Prague was in a blackout. It looked like Gotham City. And we were you know, so it's kind of an adventure. Like, there's another part in that story where it's like, you know, you know, if this didn't happen, like, what story if everything what's, what's the story, everything went great. What story is that? You know, so the journey is the destination, I think, you know, ultimately, and you know, it's not like you gotta get somewhere like you are somewhere and make that your make that your destination make that your journey, brace all of that stay connected to all of that.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, that's, that's what what I like to call a mic drop moment. Totally, totally hit the nail on the head there. And it's funny, because that's one of the core foundations of everything that I teach in my program, which, clearly I did not come up with myself, there's 1000s and 1000s of years of teachings, whether it's Stoics, or Buddhists, or Confucius, or whomever else. But this is why it's one thing to read the quote or say the quote, it's another to actually feel it in your bones, where you're like, it really is about the journey and the process and not the destination. And realizing that oh, I'm I'm struggling at the moment. And the peak may be up there. But there's so much so many clouds and so much Miss, I don't even know if the peak is there or not. And I'm just stuck here in the valley, but you just have to forge through and have faith that at some point that will come. And I would if I basically want to frame that to talk about this big giant gap, at least from the world's perspective, where you're the quintessential 80s Bully movie, movie movie, and then giant gap. Right? Some would say, Oh, well, you know, it looks like the the acting career didn't work out and then all of a sudden you reemerge, you know, out of the Phoenix out of the ashes. But for somebody for somebody that embraces the process and is just creative and wants to be a filmmaker, the more they learn about that big giant gap where you quote unquote, disappeared. There's a hell of a lot going on in there that was making you a better artist and a better creative. So talk to me about this gap that most people are unaware of because they always want to talk about Karate Kid. All right, now let's talk about Cobra Kai. There's a there's a lot more to Billy in that That giant gap.

William Zabka: Yeah, sure. Well, that gap was awesome. I remember there was a day I was doing movie after movie. I remember I just did a movie called The tiger's tail with Tommy Howell and and Margaret didn't get to see very Kelly Preston. And I had I had a meeting with a big agency, and they surrounded me with scripts. It was one of those like, Hey, here's 10 things we think you're right for. And I remember walking down to the car, my dad had driven me there to this meeting. And I'm like, I said, I don't, I don't want to do it anymore. He's like, why I'm like, it's because it's become work. It's become, it's become bigger than I imagined it being and more than I imagined it being and it's not, I'm not, I'm not. I had this thing before I started. Whereas, like, I, I was craving it. And I suddenly wasn't craving it anymore. And it was like, so what did I do? Like, I'm like, I went to music school. And I play guitar. I've been playing guitar since I was 10 years old. And I went graduated Guitar School, this place called Deke Grove and in LA, and did that for a long time I grew my hair long, I drove my jeep around, like, I played my guitar. And, you know, and you know, and you're always thinking to, like, you know, this is when you're, when you get a movie, or at a karate kid, and all sudden, these things keep topping themselves, you kind of get this false security, that's always going to be there, right? Like, I'm going to take a little break and go play the guitar, and I'll just go back, and then I'll pick it up. You know, but time marches on, you know, I went from playing the teenage kids to college kids, and then it was like, transitioning into the adult thing for me, was a little tricky. And it especially because these movies were, you know, European vacation and back to school, and just one of the guys in Karate Kid, they were, they were kind of, like you said, became known as a quintessential 80s Jerk, you know, and that was how I was kind of being crystallized. If if tiger's tail played better, it would have been different because they played this kind of fun football guy. Anyway, you just, it's not only about like, it's also self discovery and what you who you are, what fulfills you. And all of a sudden, I'm thinking, well, maybe I'm not going to, I'm not going to be an actor, you know. And again, I didn't set out to be, I never set out to be, you know, what's happened has been extraordinary. It's been way beyond my, my imagination. You know, I love it. I was telling you last night, too, we were talking on blood on the phone. And I'm like, you know, I would be just as content and sometimes maybe even happier if I could go do the work that I do. Because I love it so much. And you know, and if nobody ever saw it, it's so fulfilling for me, you know, so I like to go where, you know, where I'm alive, where I feel edified where I feel like I'm being useful and creative. And, like, with the editing, you know, I got, I did a lot of editing, I did a lot of music videos, and, and a couple documentaries. And I spent almost a year with four or five terabytes of footage from Uganda from a lady that was going there. And I was at home cutting this thing for months and months. And you know what that's like, but I mean, if you get if you get footage with no script, right? And you basically have to watch first you got to watch all that stuff, then you got to, you know, mark it and put it everywhere. And then you start to put a thing to get all that was just as fulfilling to me and man, I love doing that. Yeah, and then. So, you know, and you don't know what's ahead wasn't like, you know, like, I didn't know Cobra Kai was coming. You know, I didn't know. But I was just as happy then I was just as fulfilled then. And so I remember that. And so now that this is here, it's like, well, I'm the guy, I know who I am. So, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to make a kid come on, I'm going to say, hey, to a kid, I'm going to bump bump fists, and, you know, be as transparent as I can to other people and other artists, because we're all on this journey together. And you know, so like, you me, we're all part of the, this, this fabric that is, you know, it's dependent on each other. And, you know, so it's good. I love what you're doing. I was just so impressed to hear what you what you do. And I didn't get the whole full scope of it. But

Zack Arnold: Yeah which I appreciate. Because I can assume from your perspective, you're like, the editor of the show just keeps emailing me. I'm like, fine, fine. We'll be on his podcast. And then you and I talked about, Oh, I get it now. Right. And I want to dig way deeper into how you ascertain what is a fulfilling project? What isn't because I know you've had some, some really good career advice about that. And I'm sure you have your own. But there's one kind of side note cool piece of trivia that I have to share with people that's basically singing your praises, which is that season two, my first season on the show, because I wasn't on season one. That's the one regret that I'm gonna have on my deathbed as man, I wish I discovered Cobra Kai and I could have done it from beginning to end. But you know, still pretty fortunate. I found it at the end of season one.

William Zabka: The way you came into it was perfect though, because you were fully energized. Like you got, you know, you got pregnant with it. You're like I'm doing that, you know, yeah. From the beginning, you'd have been like, Ah, this is gonna be stupid, you know, and then you know what I mean? Like you can't

Zack Arnold: Exactly and it ends up, you know, becoming my dream job and the pinnacle of 20 years of my editing. career but so the reason I bring that up is I want people to understand it's not just a matter of, oh, you dabble or you play with, you know, the, the software and you do a little bit of editing near the end of season two, when we were just about ready to lock the season because we don't do it the way broadcast as we kind of locked the whole thing has this big giant feature over the course of a few weeks, and get this message one day like, oh, by the way, Billy's got some editing notes. And I'm like, does he now because I've gotten editing

William Zabka: some of these things. Zach has some acting notes for you. I know. Exactly. I probably could do this a little different. Maybe it'll get better.

Zack Arnold: Exactly. So. So my first thought was, Oh, interesting. Because I've gotten editing notes from actors before. It's not that uncommon, especially ones that had been been on a show for a while, have an executive producer credit. And by and large, the note is always about, well, I thought that I looked better in this or I like to my pro, it was all always about them. And for you. I discovered very quickly that it was number one about the quality of that actual moment or that scene. But number two, you actually knew what you were talking about. And then some the two moments and this is just a side piece of Cobra Kai trivia or number one, you would cut your own version of the Whitesnake dream montage the music video by literally taking your iPhone and shooting from the monitor and digitizing your own dailies, which just mystified me that you would go to that level. And then the other moment was there's this little like back alley, just not even really a fight just kind of a skirmish where you take down this really smarmy British guy. And with both of those moments, they showed me the notes. I'm like, Jed, he's right, this is better, right? And I switched it. But what the reason I bring that up, is my belief is that the reason this show works so well, is because everybody has the exact same way to approach it, which is that the best idea wins. It does not matter where it comes from. We're all very competitive, but there's no egos, it's we're just going to compete to find the best idea. And I think that all of us whether it's you or Ralph or John or Josh, or Hayden or me or anybody else on the team, we have this extreme level of perfectionism, where we just want to get it right at all costs. And those two moments I was like, Alright, I'm a fan. You can give me notes anytime you want.

William Zabka: Yeah, I'm really careful about sending in notes. Because I learned really early on. And one of the scenes that was cut out of the first season, which was the Brazilian jujitsu. Do you ever see that

Zack Arnold: I had. I didn't even know. But I'm intrigued.

William Zabka: Okay, so there's a scene where we're at Johnny's trying to recruit some guys from a Brazilian jujitsu studio. And I had some issues with the scene. And I was talking to the guys about and I got voted down. And I remember going home that night, and like, just realized that I have to surrender Johnny, like, I'm like, okay, so Johnny isn't really mine anymore. Like it's all over. He's all of ours, you know, so I'm always careful about that. But I do do that I'm constantly either I'm filming the monitors, or somebody's doing it for me, for myself. So then I'll go ahead and cut together like a fight sequence or just things, just so I know, for me that it's working. And rarely do I shoot that over to the guys to get to you guys. But um, yeah, those two instances, I think were the The music video was just so much fun. And I just had a blast. It was fun to cut that together. I didn't. I didn't actually have that to be sent to you. I just showed the guys were like, Oh, we're gonna send this on. And I think the one that Ali fight, I think there was something I saw, I can't remember exactly what it was. But it was just a timing thing with a couple frames, which makes a world of difference, you know, just to like one frame changes could change the whole DNA of the whole piece, the whole sequence. So I'm always watching for that. And there was also a you didn't do on the Oh, no, it was season. You know what I think it might have been two was in season two, the opening fight with crease. I don't know if you were doing

Zack Arnold: I didn't work on that. Well, that was episode 201. I came in and did 202.

William Zabka: Okay, so that one was one where I was, they had cut it together. And they showed me the cut. And there was just dead moments in between certain movements. And there was also a couple things that I didn't know if it was a style where there was a punch. And then from the cut, it was like a punch and then a repeat punch. And I don't know if that was perfect, but it didn't line up in the cut. It was just like, it was like a double. And I'm like is that sloppy? Or is that on purpose, I'm like, so I tighten that up. And just a couple things in my own edit, just so Johnny looks stronger. And it felt it just the energy was in it. I sent that one. And then they did some adjustments on that as well. And that's just you know, that's just my listening, especially with this character and with what this is, and, you know, I'm not 18 years old anymore throwing these kicks. So I want to look as good as I can look. So I'm super, you know, invested in it. Mostly, I'll do that to show the guys. Like I don't say, hey, send this on. I need to see this in the cut. I'll just show the guys and then if they agree with it, they'll send it on. But I do that a lot as part of my process too just for you know, because we're moving so fast. The CIO is moving so fast. It's a blur by the by the third month, third week, fourth week, you're just like, you know, you're swimming in it so I like I just try Wanna make sure these moments are? You know, I put everything I can into making it? What I hope it would be in my eyes, you know, but yeah is a full, you know, that's the best thing too is how what I learned on it was how what good hands? What good hands that were in with you guys? What good hands we are with the music what good hands. I mean everybody cares. And it's clear. So when you pour your heart out and you're playing something, and you give it over, you know and to see it come back like did you cut the end of season three to that last? That was you cut the season? That was it? Three 10? Yeah. Is that yours?

Zack Arnold: Oh my god, I'm so glad that you brought that up. Because whenever whenever somebody interviews me about editing, and they say if there's any moment or scene or episode in your career that you're the most proud of now, I've got to tell you the story about the last scene or 310. Yeah, I'm just gonna ask you, so go. Okay, good. I'm so glad that this came up because I didn't want to force it. But oh my god, this is one of my favorite moments of my entire career. So for those that don't know, spoiler alert, Johnny and Daniel come together at the end of season three, if you're right. But essentially, in my mind, because I was such a fan of the show, who I am is so driven by the themes of the original karate kid having been bullied for years, then learning martial arts, martial arts philosophy is a huge part of who I am, that all of a sudden, I'm reading the script. I'm like, Whoa, this is a huge responsibility that's partly put upon my shoulders as I'm sure you felt and everybody else in that scene felt anybody that's lived in this world. We've been waiting for this moment for over 30 years. And I was watching the dailies thinking like this. This has got to be the moment we've been building to this for so long and can't just be like, Oh, great, they're together and cut to black end of season. So Josh was the Josh Heald was the director of that episode. And I think, either co writer or he wrote it as well, I can't remember. But he had written a very specific song into it. And it was a song from Queen. And as soon as I listened to the song, I'm like, No, this is totally not right. This doesn't feel like what this moment needs to be. Because ultimately, what I this is what I tell people in the editing world all the time. As editors, we are painting with emotion. And our job is to create moments. It's not to cut together dailies or scenes or sequences, we create moments, this moment has to hit. So I call Josh, I'm like, Dude, I love you. This is the wrong song. Is it okay, if I dig around to see what I think is going to work better is like we totally trust you, you do whatever you need to. So I started thinking to myself, like, what is like the biggest moment the biggest crescendo? If you wanted to think about this, this gigantic build of any ad song? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? Like? Oh, I know what it is. It's Phil Collins in the air tonight. And I started searching for it. And all of a sudden, I find this alternate version of it by the Protomen. And not only is it a great cover, but it has all the kind of rock and electronic instrumentation underneath it felt exactly like our composers had done it. I literally broke into a sweat when I was cutting it in and like oh, my God, I think this is it. I think this is it. I was so nervous. I called my assistant editor in and I was shaking, I was shaking, I was breaking out in a sweat. And like, you have to watch this and tell me if I'm crazy. Because either this is the coolest thing ever, or this is gonna suck. And I showed him the whole scene. What's in the finished version was essentially my editors cut. Finish the scene. He just sat there for a second. He's like, dude, yeah, that's the scene. And then I screened it for the guys, one of our our kind of rituals that we have is we screened the editors cut of every season finale, which is terrifying, because it hasn't gone through any note notes hasn't gone through any directors, no writers, like here's my raw vision in my head. And my hands were shaking as I was screening it with the three of them on the couch in the front of the room. And as soon as it started to build, they started to cheer and I'm like, yeah, so all the moments that I've created for the whole series that I feel are in the DNA of the show. That's the moment that I'm the most proud of

William Zabka: What's amazing. It was I mean, I remember them showing me I knew that was coming. I knew that of course we played that moment. And it was really a big moment for both of us, I mean to finally turn to each other in character because we are we become these guys. So you know, we've always seen each other and opposite sides of the aisle. And I remember seeing that and going I remember what it felt like I knew he was with any song would have been a great moment. But when the guy showed me that with the cut, even knowing what it was like we were all like do chills like that was that's it like that's and they told me told me how how you put it in there. And I like that they surprise you surprise them with that and but those are those moments were a super yeah, those are the those I think are the moments that that resonate and linger like that's a moment in time. I think that that one scene that's the beginning of transition for these characters. That's got so much weight behind it with the decades And moving forwards. That's like a turning point for everything. I'm the pivot point. And you nailed it, man.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, well, I appreciate that. Well, I'll throw it back at you real quick because the my second favorite moment of the entire series is so god awful boring that nobody would be interested in it. But you, but I edited and workshopped versions of this to death. And it was the moment that you gave Ravi a hug at the end of season four. Like that moment just destroyed me. I literally I was in tears watching the dailies and like, I can't stop, I cannot screw up the scene because what you guys both brought to it was so good. And I must have caught 15 different versions of that trying to find what's the timing? What are the pauses in between, like that scene was just so good. So it's way more boring in the lexicon. But for me, it was such an important pivot.

William Zabka: Oh no, I loved it. I loved how you handled that. And it was really just, I mean, you're, you're so good, dude, your instincts are dead on the way you went all the way. Even the everything's gonna be alright, the way you cut back out of that to the wide at the end of that and let it live in this empty space. It could have been head to head and it could have cut to the next bit. But like, you know, that's what I love is when these moments breathe. You know, we're not just kind of, and that that just said, I mean, that could have been, you know, in one way that could have been almost an alternate, final moment of that season two, but it would have had a different you know, we had that shoot off with crease and, and the silver bit. But that was its own resolve. And that was another monster moment. I mean, for Johnny and for, for Robbie in the relationship. I mean, those are the two moments of pivot points and turning points and you're nailing it. So continue on, please don't.

Zack Arnold: I appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you. And this is actually the perfect segue to where I want to go next is talking a lot more about this father, son or father daughter relationship, because you have both and better understanding how at any level, but specifically at the level that you're at now, how you ascertain, if this is an opportunity that I'm worth making sacrifices for or not because again, if you don't love what you do, well, you don't, you're it's gonna feel like work. And if you do love what you do, you're not going to work a day in your life. But it's still going to come at a cost, especially now that you've got kids, I can't even imagine saying, Hey, guys, I'll see it in seven months when the season is over. Like I have a hard time if I'm gonna be gone for two days. So I don't I don't I can't even imagine what it is that you must go through knowing that you and I have kids that are essentially the exact same age. How is it that you decide what's an opportunity? And what isn't? And then how do you just manage the complete and total lack of work life balance when you're on a show?

William Zabka: Yeah, I'm still I think we're starting that we finally sort of figured it out. I've never done a series this long. And I when I did do it work in the earlier days, I didn't have kids. So when we started, it was like Mike, my son was seven and my daughter was four. So it was it was a little different. They didn't have quite they weren't quite oriented with time and like the time I was away and stuff. But um, it's that's that's a new, that's a new big deal for me is that I, I love being a dad, I've been home for a year now since our last our last show or the show wrapped and I didn't take any work and I had some offers come along the way to pull me here and there for a month or two and do this. And then I just wanted to go and make up for lost time and dive in. And, you know, given their coach, you know, in many ways, and you know, I'm just there, you know, daughter's doing gymnastics, son's doing water polo and guitar and just, you know, I love being hands on. I love being a father more than anything now. So it's really interesting, because when I started like, you know, my, my dream was to be in the business and all that when you have children. That's just a whole nother compartment of your heart. So for me, how do you how do you ascertain what's the right move? There's still two parts of it. I mean, there's some in a perfect world. And this is what I look for. And if everything can line up, it's great. I'm doing a project that they can come and watch me shoot. And that ideally, they can come to the premiere and they could see this movie, okay? Most of the things that are out there are not that. So if I'm going to go away for three or four months and say, Hey, Daddy's over here, but you can't come to the set, because it's this theme or whatever. And you're never going to watch this movie until you're 18 or whatever, you know, those are considerations. However, that's not the final thing because there are decisions that I'll make, that are purely career oriented and stuff like that. But my perfect world is it's like everything fits in where I go and work and the doors open on both ways. And I'm and it's and it's open and so I'm looking for something that's you know, fits with the whole the whole big picture, but it is it's hard. It's hard being away. It's it's, you know, we're bracing for it right now. They've gotten really used to me being around and being there, you know, throwing the ball on them in the backyard and, you know, helping them with their homework and getting them to bed every night and The barbecues and the whole thing like, you know, I've been a full time dad for a year. And it's just awesome. Like, if I could, you know, and I don't want to miss, I don't want to miss, I don't want to blink in on my kids at college and go, whoa. So I tend to play by play. But they're there, they're acclimated to this lifestyle now. And they're, they're like, they're okay. And I think there's something good about them. Like, when I leave, and I do these things, I say, Hey, listen, we all have our missions, like you have your mission to go knock out school, get your sports done, you know, that's your job, you know, mom's jobs to do her business. And also to make sure you guys do your stuff. And dad as a job. So like, you know, my kids were in play. So it's like, Okay, you guys are doing Wizard of Oz, like you got your rehearsals, you know, while you're here is a daddy's over here. So I try to make it like, we all have our missions. And there's something that happens to where, you know, when I when I do step away for a minute, although come sometimes it's too long, that it builds character in them, because they find their own selves and their own strengths. And they learn, you know, in a new way, so I just tried to keep it all positive. And, you know, and, and then I have, you know, my wife and I discuss every opportunity that comes through. And, you know, and I've been really so committed to Cobra Kai, that, you know, I just, I'm, I've been laser beam focused. And I think just now at this point, I'm like, Okay, I'm ready to throw a net, throw my line in the future and see what's out there. So there's all kinds of things coming in, you know, I'm looking through and have to weigh them all. And some of them are just amazing movies and amazing parts that the kids wouldn't really be a part of. But in a perfect world, it's something where, you know, I can share that because again, it's a tricky thing. It's a really a tricky thing. Because you blink, you know, my daughter, you know, FaceTime me at one o'clock in the morning, when I'm on on location, I have to get up at four and also, Daddy, I can't sleep, can you just put your phone next to your pillow? And I'm like, Yes. And you know, we pass out together, you know, but it's like the first usually, usually the first week, the first few days are the hardest, and then I come home. So, you know, anytime we get a break, I'll I'll get home to see them they can visit. It's a it's a balancing act for sure. You know, yeah, I'm in my gift, I'm in my dream, and I'm encouraging them to find theirs. So, you know, one day you will be doing what you dream of doing and you'll work towards. So I'm modeling that for you.

Zack Arnold: Looking at all the decisions that you've made, obviously, Cobra Kai is a no brainer. You've gone a year, you've decided I don't want to take the following shows, but you know, take the legal obligations aside, and it's a continuing series. It just seems to me that Cobra Kai is a no brainer. You figure it out whatever it takes. Well, you know, if we have to move where you guys have to travel every other weekend, that's one of those things where there is no discussion of Gee, should I go back to Cobra Kai or shouldn't I you just you figure out how to make it work because that's kind of the the dream opportunity, the lifetime opportunity, right. But now we're done with Cobra Kai right did in your own words, we're going to time travel forwards to where and now Cobra Kai has wrapped and more opportunities are coming your way. Just a little bit more complicated about whether or not you should take it. And I know that very early in your career, you got some really good advice about basically here are the three criteria to figure out if this is something you should work on or not. So help people better understand and give them some questions that they can ask when they're deciding. Is this opportunity worth the costs that come with it?

William Zabka: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And before I see those three things, you know with Cobra Kai, before Cobra Kai, there was sweep Sweep the leg Did you ever see the music video Sweep the leg?

Zack Arnold: I think I have seen it but I'm gonna make sure to I'll put a link in the show notes for it for sure.

William Zabka: So just go backwards for a second so this band is great guy Pete Mitchell wrote a song called Sweep the Leg Johnny and it was band was No More Kings. And I met this great, this great man producer on the label said won't need to be in a music video. I said if I write and direct it, and I'll do it. He said sure. It became like I played me trapped as Johnny and all the original cobras came back and Ralph and and it wasn't me playing Johnny was me being Billy trapped as Johnny. And it was just really funny. So at that moment, I was it was the first time I went face Ford back in the Karate Kid universe and play Johnny again in any capacity. And once it went out, it went viral at that time and the response was so great. It's like whoa, there's like, you know, Cobra, Kai knitting classes and volleyball classes and clubs. And like, I didn't realize the audience that was out there. So I had I had kind of got like this thing like, oh, it's not done yet. There's more to it. And then I was so fortunate to be invited to be on How I Met Your Mother. And they did this great. I got to come on, as you know, Barney Stinson love Johnny Lawrence. And that's me and I got to do a whole season nine with them in this arc and it was just like churning there was something there. So what I mean is at one point I was sort of pregnant with the vision that that that something's not done with this yet. I'm not I've done quite with this character. So when Josh John Hayden came to me with the pitch, it was I was so pregnant and ready for I was like, just fertile, maybe, you know, and I walked away going, you know, I don't know if this really happens, this is going to be something you know, but So, now that I've been doing Cobra Kai, you know, when you're having a baby, you're raising an infant, you're not really thinking about your next one, because you're like, Dude, I gotta, you know, change the diapers. And I'm the one on the other end of that now. So I'm ready to be, you know, sort of pregnant with a new vision and a new thing. Early on, in my career, I was doing the equalizer with Edward Woodward. And I had just done just one of the guys in Karate Kid and European vacation. And all of a sudden back to school pops on the radar. And they offered me the part of Chas Osborne, who's, who's another, you know, villain antagonists. And I was on set with Edward and I got to play his son on the equalizer, the original equalizer. And incredible that was that was, that was my acting school, I got to work with Robert Mitchum and Richard Jordan and Robert Lansing, Shirley Knight, all these classically trained stars and, of course, Edward Woodward. So I was getting to play just a brown person, not a bad guy on that show. I'm on the set with him one day and I said, I just got an offer to play back to school in this then another bad guy, but I've already played a few bad guys. And I said, Well, there's three things to consider. So the first thing is, the script is so good. That you would, the part is so good that you would do it for free. And the script is so good or two, the money's right, or three. It's the people you're working with. He says if it's one of those three things, then you can consider it. I said, Well, it's a couple of those things. You know, it's like the part I can tweak like someone like Well, I'm gonna do back to school. I'm not playing. I'm not going to play Johnny Lawrence. I'm not going to play Greg told I'm not going to play in the same way. So I actually found a funny way in my mind to play Chaz Osbourne who was really a cowardly lion. I grew my hair long he puffed his chest out, but at the end, he had no bite. And so I you know, I walked around the prance through, you know, scarf around my neck, the director of that pulled me aside halfway through shooting and call me into his trailer, he says, Hey, man, you're coming off too funny in the dailies, like, Where's, where's the bad guy from The Karate Kid, I'm like, Dude, he's in the Karate Kid, like, I've done that. But there's three things so like, you know, the, the material is so great, that you just have to do it, you need to you want to do it, you know, to the money, you need the money, the time, it's nothing wrong with that. And three, the people that are involved, you know, so I look for one of those things.

Zack Arnold: I'm gonna add a component to that. Something that's super important. And it's really the reason that I gravitated to Cobra Kai more than anything, is that the message is something that resonates with you and your deeper why and you know, what's going to have an impact. So the thing that I love doing with this Optimize Yourself program, and I've been doing for years and training people for Spartan Races, or when I used to teach martial arts, all these things, it's always about, I love putting people outside their comfort zones and watching them, I've seen that switch flip on where they realize, whoa, I haven't even remotely discovered my true potential and I'm capable of more I see it happen all the time. I love that moment at Cobra Kai thematically, that's what it is. Let's put you into you know, the the moment where you're facing your darkest fears. So the reason that I keep coming back to it even though logistically just on a calendar, it makes no sense at this point for me to do it. But number one, it's a great show. I love being on and I love all the people, but ultimately, it's that deeper theme is just resonates so much with me and my deeper why? So I'm curious, if you're looking at projects beyond just either the money or working with great people, or the part what are the deeper themes are like, this is the message I want to get out there? Here's the impact that I want to have.

William Zabka: Yeah, certainly. And that was again, that was from Edward Woodward, when I was about 21 years old. So those were the criteria at that moment. You know, ideally, I want to I want to I'd like to be a part of storytelling that first of all, you know, you're We're actors, we're, you know, kind of a conduit of of humanity. And so So even as the character doesn't have to be a hero, he can be a broken antihero or whatever, but anything that's human and honest. So I look for I look for truth really. You know, I love comedy. I love drama. I love action. But it's not there's not like a certain message that I want to put out because I think there's you know, my my message if there is a message is to be transparent to be honest, to be true seeker and then, you know, we all have our limitations Johnny Lawrence has had it has his limitations. He's slowly evolving from a caveman you know, he's stuck in the 80s He's slowly waking up to new things and watching that form and then as a as an audience member, you're watching that and you're you're going on that ride. So what I love about that too, is I've got so many guys in like comic cons, for instance that come up to me and literally in tears grown men. that, that they're hugging me because they stopped drinking, or they're, they're back with their son that they haven't talked to for so long. That, you know, they're, they were heartbroken. And they were the guy that was literally sitting at home and they made a phone call and called a friend for the first time and old friend, and reconnected. Like, dude, my job's done. Like, that's why that's why I want to do this in the first place, you know, so, you know, it doesn't have to be, it's not like what the story is always it's, it's that I find the truth in the character. And that, that's, that's all and then I like and, and I don't know, you know, it's, it's on a play by play Cobra Kai is a great model. And it's gonna be really interesting to see what comes next. Because it's, it's a high bar of what I've got to do. And I love that it's, you know, it's working for kids to grandparents, there's a whole demographic there, it's like, you know, families are coming together, I'd like to stay in that zone, I'd like to whatever I do next, ideally, I'd like to do something that can bring that the family is gonna watch, you know, not just for the badass, you know, 20 Plus, you want to see me go do this or that we'll see. We'll see.

Zack Arnold: And as far as being a part of those kinds of projects. I'm curious, given that we come back to this theme, where we started to being the renaissance man, does that mean that it is as the actor or is it as the filmmaker is the director is the writer is the composer as the grip? I mean, you've done it all. But like, for you, what, what, what is that next stage where you really want to be a part of it? Because you're a part of so much of the process?

William Zabka: Yeah, I think all of it, I think, I mean, I love acting, I love it, I love, I love when it's right, when it's written, right, and I can trust it, and I can jump in the skin and jump off a cliff. And, you know, I've done so many films, where it's like I've, you know, independent movies, sci fi movies in, you know, that are just like, went off the rails and the editing was horrible. And I'm just like, screaming, but when you're in good hands, and you're in a pocket with this kind of situation, there's nothing better. So that's something but yeah, I think, you know, again, I've been so full with this character, and with the show and my responsibility to it that I really didn't have time for any, any other considerations too much, especially since I'm, when I'm off season, it's all about my kids and my wife and my family, right. So like, there's such, it's like, a half a year, at least in my life, that I'm doing the show, and then the promotions and everything. And there's slivers of me, this is my first year in five years, and I got to have Halloween with my kids, I got to be home for my daughter's birthday. And I got to see her play live, you know, my son's play. The other times, I'm assuming it, you know, or FaceTime in it. So, you know, anyway, that the future, I think it'll be a little bit of all, I think, definitely have stories in me and things that I would want to say and in a comedy and a drama. So I don't know. But once as we're coming to the finish line here, for the first time, I'm starting to say, Okay, now I can look this direction. And and I don't know what that'll be, but I know it's gonna be great.

Zack Arnold: I love it. You've been interviewed countless times by all the world's best news outlets, magazines, talk shows, et cetera, et cetera. And we've, I believe, had a really honest and authentic conversation. But is there anything else that you don't get the opportunity to share? Or talk about, that's really important to you, that we can use to wrap it up today?

William Zabka: Big Question. Not really, I think we've covered it all in pieces. Um, I would just say, you know, to artists that are out there, you know, in whatever capacity, you know, first of all, like I said, we started with this and have the plumb line to who you are, you know, where you start. You know, to have your foundation, have your roots, have your family have your friends, my best friends are still the best friends I had since I was a kid. My actual first like best friend when I was in New York, I was, you know, two years old at 10 You know, we're still in touch occasionally, you know, but I'm the same best friends I've had since I was just moved, you know, moved to California when I was 10 years older, there's still my brothers and my thing, you know, so keep your roots stay there and you know, and have your plumb line and then from that Launchpad, you know, take your satellite dish to the all things are possible networks shooted up to the sky, and do your part work hard. And, you know, the dots will connect. And I heard a great thing one time about like, Well, why isn't this happening for me? Like why? Well, you know, why is my why didn't things opening up? Well, sometimes the stage is being set in your life, like, like, like, why the curtains aren't opening for me yet? Well, they actually the stage is being set like this guy has to meet this guy. This guy has to write this thing. This guy has to raise this kind of money. This guy's got to do this. And all that's happening on the stage, but you have to be ready. So just trust the process. Man. There's a lot of moving parts to your dream in any capacity, whether it's this industry or in anything. So, you know, I think, you know, rest easy, I would say, you know, and, and don't be discouraged. It's easy to be it's really easy to be discouraged. But reach out and step out of your comfort zone.

Zack Arnold: I think that's that's all amazing advice. Oh, sorry, say that again,

William Zabka: Challenge yourself, you know the things you're most afraid of, you're probably things you should step in to do.

Zack Arnold: Once again, you and I totally on the same page.

William Zabka: Don't be scaling rocks now, you know, and though no cords, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I think that's where you grow. I think you grow when you're, you know, you step out you Oh, every single time I do that, you know, it's really easy to shrink and to be in your bubble, man. It's just natural. It's human nature to just kind of recoil but like to go ahead and like, just step into a situation that may you may be intimidated by, or maybe uncomfortable by, and you'll be surprised at what greets you there.

Zack Arnold: Yeah. That discomfort zone. That's where your growth is waiting. And that's where the true potential lies. But man, it's scary as hell. Yeah. So the the advice that I give my students all the time is very similar to what you just said, which is, and they hate this advice, once they've kind of gotten all the pieces in place, and they're going in the right direction. Oh, it's not happening yet. And I give them the worst advice ever. I say, just keep doing what you're doing. Oh, God, I have to it's supposed to be happening by now. How do you know? Right? Every, every time that I fallen or failed at something, I'm like, well, when the story is over, this was a really great chapter that's going to make the story that much more intriguing. But I have to be willing to keep the story moving forward. So I'm you and I, once again, totally on the same page.

William Zabka: Like I remember back when it started for me, and I was like, you know, I'm all in, like, I feel like I'm an explorer on a ship. Sometimes you're in the middle of the sea, you know, it's like, there's no going back, like, I'm so committed here. Like, I don't know what I do next. Like, you know, like, I'm gonna go be a doctor, I don't think so. You know, I got this, I gotta eat, I gotta fish for my food man. And hopefully, I'm gonna land on an island somewhere at some point, it's like, but you kind of have to have both feet, and you have to be at least pretty committed. But you also have to be ready to pivot, because maybe there's something pushing you back so hard that you're actually really going in the wrong direction. There is a truth to that. So that's why you have your, your base. That's why your friends and your family to help you have an objective eye on that. And they're gonna be like, Yeah, you know what, I never really thought you should, you know, you're not, you know, you shouldn't be doing this or whatever, you know, trust trust the people around you, too. But, um, but you got to be you have to be in with both feet. There's no other alternative for me, you know, it's this or like, I don't know, man, I really don't know, maybe I have to pull my guitar out and start a band. Maybe that would be it.

Zack Arnold: My guess is you'd have a built in audience that would be waiting for that for sure. And so I realized that I've broken my promise of doing my best to keep this to an hour, but dammit, Billy, this conversation was just too damn good that I didn't want to interrupt you and stop you with all the mic drops

William Zabka: down to an hour, you can cut out some of the fat just don't just get there.

Zack Arnold: I was gonna say I don't know what I would cut out. Like, I've been totally engaged in this the whole time and cannot believe that we're already at this point. And I'm hoping that my audience feels the same way. But I would be remiss if I didn't thank you one more time for answering the incessant emails over and over and over about how important it was for me to have this conversation and share your story again, because I think it's gonna have such a positive impact on the right people. Well done, by the way, well done.

William Zabka: Oh, I'm not done. This is to be honest. I was intending to be drinking this the whole time. But I thought our conversation was Marty Cove. Flask he gave me for my birthday one time. Isn't that great?

Zack Arnold: Nice for anybody that's listening right now. This is a cue for you to go on YouTube and watch this because the visual aids right now are priceless.

William Zabka: Priceless. So it was great chatting with you, man.

Zack Arnold: I can't thank you enough. You know, let's let's do it again. Yeah, I would I would definitely love to do it again. My oh my my gut says that there the there's something in the the air or the universe that for whatever reason outside of Cobra Kai might bring us together in the future.

William Zabka: I have a good feel to.

Zack Arnold: So cool, man. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

William Zabka: Alright brother.

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William Zabka on Managing Overnight Success, Choosing the Right Opportunities (to Avoid Being Pigeonholed), Staying Creative, and Balancing Fatherhood with Hollywood

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