Stop “Managing” Your Chronic Pain and Start Fixing It | with Julie Fahrbach

About Episode

My guest today is Julie Fahrbach, a familiar name in the Optimizer community and a long time fellow team member in the Optimizer Coaching & Mentorship program. Julie is a Somatic Movement Instructor and Bodywork Specialist on a mission to educate anyone with chronic aches, pains, and injuries that they hold the ability to not just lessen their pain, but cure it.

As we discuss today, Julie previously (and openly unhappily) worked in the entertainment industry for 10 years before experiencing a life changing moment just after leaving that lead to her doing the work she does today. Beyond discussing lessons of boundaries while working in the industry (or any career), Julie and I dive deep into the intricacies of chronic pain, unraveling the real cause to ultimately develop more effective strategies to work with it.

Julie’s profound knowledge on this subject is nothing short of astounding. In fact, I got to be one of her clients to experience firsthand how effective her methods really are, which I also share in our conversation. This episode holds as many lessons in placing boundaries as it does valuable insights on chronic pain – including how to prevent it, manage it and cure it.

Transcript

Zack Arnold: I'm here today with Julie Fahrbach, who is a assistant editor in reality television turned, of all things a bodywork specialist, you're on a mission to educate anybody that has chronic pains, injuries, headaches, and even emotional suffering that you hold the ability to not just lessen your pain, but to cure it. And as a full disclaimer to anybody that is watching or listening, one of the most common questions that I get via email via social media, and especially when I meet people in person is, Zach, how do you do it all? Spoiler alert, I don't. Julie is also known as Zulie. You're basically the extension of my brain, and the vast majority of the creative work and otherwise that we do at Optimize Yourself, you are a major, major part of this journey. And you have been a part of my team and essentially my left hand since about the beginning of the pandemic and have worn I think pretty much every hat done every role, which as we're going to learn is a very common theme in your life throughout today's interview. But this has been a long time coming, getting this off the record ongoing conversation on the record. So I'm gonna shut up for a second. And I'm gonna say, Julie, it's a pleasure to finally have you here today.

Julie Fahrbach: Well, thank you. Yeah, that's very interesting, listening to so many and obviously, working on so many. And meeting with you so much throughout the week, it's just kind of feels like another team meeting, which is great.

Zack Arnold: And I want to keep that friendliness going. But there's, there's a lot of value that you have provided to my life professionally, somebody that's been on the team, you've also provided a tremendous amount of value to me personally in all of the things that you've learned about body work and healing. And if I, if I were in a position of having to explain the work that you do, my simple response would be, I have no idea how to explain what it is that you do, because you're not and we can talk about all the various things you've learned about the different practices. But you're not a massage therapist. But what you do is kind of sort of similar to it. But the effects that come from any outcome that comes from doing the body work with you is number one, nothing short of transformational. Number two makes absolutely no sense. It just makes no sense. Like we've we've done several treatments now. And it's like I don't understand what's happening. But oh my god, do it again. Because it is just completely unlocked my nervous system. And so just years and years of chronic aches and tightness and injuries and whatnot. So we're going to talk so much more about chronic pain, I know that one of the things that's really important to you is not only talking about how do we better manage it, but that we are actually able to cure it and eradicate it. And we are going to get to all of that. However, you have a really interesting origin story. And I want to talk about where you were, when you and I first met.

Julie Fahrbach: Ah, hell, I was in hell, I was 10 years into working as an assistant editor. Actually, no, the first year that actually did research. That's how I got into the industry. It was just kind of a job that was offered I never saw that was never really interested. I had just graduated college and had no idea what I was going to do with my life. And so I took it because it was an opportunity to live out in Los Angeles and coming from Haven, Kansas that just sound kind of exciting. So yeah, I was in hell, it didn't take me very long to realize that not only was the entertainment industry, actually as a whole, not where I belonged. But it really didn't take me that long to reach absolute suffering. But what had happened was I got into that career because I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. And that career was financially supporting me. So I can stay in California, which I wanted. And it just kind of redid this whole decade of yeah, just depression, anxiety. And so I ended up finding Optimize Yourself, and you were just like this light. Shining, I was so grateful and fine. Because here's someone who's working in the entertainment industry, but you weren't like anyone else I'd met before, which was angry. Just I don't know, I won't even go into it. But you know, so.

Zack Arnold: Well, actually, I do want you to go into it. I want you to talk about what what what are all the things that you would expect from somebody that works in the entertainment industry, specifically in post production, and how finding I'm going to step away out of myself for a second but finding this person that was in the industry that was doing things differently.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah. So really, the main thing I'd found was just no regard for people as people. No real need. It seemed like to treat people like humans. People are objects to get things done that advance you and the home that you live in. So it just kind of became this experience of, you have to say yes, that's what I believe. That's what I thought, you have to say yes, that's how you keep up. That's how you advance. That's how you keep getting the next big show. And that became part of the problem too, is it's always waiting for the next show, maybe it's there's just this show that tell, you know, it's kind of that mindset, the next one will be better, if I work harder, and I pay my dues, and I just sleep for three weeks in a row is what it felt like, then, then I'm going to make it to the next show is going to be better. And it just couldn't be further from the truth that never really stops, the people are, they'll take from you, whatever you give, that's what I found. I just didn't know my own limit, I didn't have a limit.

Zack Arnold: The pattern that you're talking about is not just working in reality, or working in post production. I believe it's far more pervasive throughout not just our industry, but other industries as well. But the pattern is a very specific one that I've talked about with a multitude of other clients and students in our program. That's almost identical to the patterns that you hear from people that have been in abusive relationships. Well, they felt really bad about what happened, they're going to apologize, they got me flowers, and it's going to be better next time. And just that emotional feeling of being trapped in an abusive relationship is the way that so many people explained to me the relationship that they have with their careers in this industry.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah absolutely. And the worst part to me, I didn't know this until I was out for about a year, the the extreme grief and anger that you experienced towards yourself, because it finally hit me. I allowed that I didn't have boundaries. I didn't say no, this, I can't blame anyone else for any way that they ever treated me in the entertainment industry, because I allowed it. You know, I'd get pissy and moan about oh, no, I have to stay late and work this insane shift. But I said, okay, then I did it. So is as frustrating as it is, it is like an abusive relationship where same thing, it's, it's up to you to make that choice to leave or change it.

Zack Arnold: One of the things that is I'm going to continually try and remind myself that I don't have to tell you, as you and I have talked about because you're literally the extension of the inside of my brain. So I'm going to refrain from doing that. And just assume you and I have already had these conversations. But one of the things that you know, that you and I have talked about, and that I talk about in the program all the time, especially with several of my private clients right now that are dealing with something very similar is that we train people on how they are allowed to treat us. And you train the people around you for years that it is okay to take advantage of me and exploit my time and my expertise. So I love that you have taken responsibility for it. And this kind of goes a whole lot deeper into a lot of my beliefs just about how it is that we manage our situations and manage our lives. None of this is your fault. However, all of it is your responsibility. And the fact that you're taking responsibility for the fact that you allowed it to happen. And you can't say that it's all on them. That to me is such a huge step for anybody is this awareness and acceptance of this might not be my problem or my fault. But this is my responsibility to fix it.

Julie Fahrbach: Absolutely.

Zack Arnold: So given all of that remind me I literally don't know the answer to this at this point. Because it's been so long, and the amount of memories and situations all kind of gums together. I literally don't remember the first time that we met.

Julie Fahrbach: I'll tell you it's so yeah, I have reached out genuinely to say thank you. Uh, thank you for all the work that you're doing. It was so nice and refreshing to find positivity for the first time in this industry. And that led to you or I think there was a hike coming up, there's some kind of Spartan training coming coming up. And you had said, if you're, you know, interested in this kind of people, there's more of a tribe like this. So we can do that. So I don't remember exactly which kind of hike or workout it was, but I just showed up to that. And that was I was in ever since

Zack Arnold: My I can guarantee that my first memory of you does not align with the first time that we met. But you know that I've told a story like 78 different times. But my first memory of you weren't really stuck in my mind who you were and could have been a month after we met. I honestly don't remember. But we ran a Spartan Race Together. And I believe it was a Spartan super. So at that time, it was maybe 789 miles. And I knew of you you'd probably been a couple of the hiking groups and I remembered your name and whatnot but I didn't really know you. And I was just absolutely floored by the look on your face during this entire essay. It was exactly the look on your face that you have now. crawling under barbed wire and you are going through mud and doing all this hard stuff. And I swear To God, I couldn't have used a fire hose to wipe the smile off your face. Like who is this? What is wrong with you? Right? But it just showed that it's all about perspective. And it's about attitude. And I've seen that exact same attitude, just pervade through everything that we've done, we've had to solve so many complex problems and still solving complex problems and challenges. And behind the scenes, Optimize Yourself was a little bit of a shit show as we tried to figure all this out and grow and scale and expand. And every time we have something that we need to deal with good, bad or otherwise, you've got the same smile on your face. And I swear to God with a chisel and a hammer, I couldn't get it off of you. Where does that come from?

Julie Fahrbach: Oh, man, I love that question. Because I would like to know to, I think my initial response to it is, I didn't have like this really exciting, beautifully painted experience of life. And so one thing I love about, especially physical hard work, when it comes to fitness, really pushing yourself. My favorite part about that is that you have to dig so deep, you have no other choice, it's you get out of all the scripts going around in your head. And you have to find that place within yourself to keep going. And every time I find that place, she is so happy. And she's so excited, and she wants to play. And so the more you push that the more the firehose, but there is some more, I just think it's hysterical. And I want to show up. And you really just get to feel your own sense of power in moments like that. And it's so endless for all of us how much of that we have. And so it's kind of just that blend of, you know, a classic life problem. When it comes to work. That's not really a big life problem. And also, you can keep a positive mindset and work through it doesn't mean you're not going to get stressed and all those things, but it doesn't have to be debilitating. And so yeah, I think that just comes from understanding that a lot of the things we think of terrible aren't really that mad. And then also just understanding that power we have within us and it's I don't think it's this really intense power that's always serious and goes for the gold. I think most of the time, it's just I don't know, it's playful. And it likes to crawl through the mud under barbed wire, I guess.

Zack Arnold: Here's the reason that I asked this. And this is yet another question that I literally don't know the answer to the person that you were when I met you, I guess it would have been probably six, seven years ago, to this day still have no memory of when that was and when that Spartan Race, I think was probably six or seven years ago. I'm curious, the person that I saw that had the smile on their face during the Spartan Race that I couldn't take it off of I tried. Were you the same person? If I were to talk to somebody else to work with you when you were an assistant editor?

Julie Fahrbach: No. And I think that's why you probably don't remember me is because I was silent. I was very quiet. I just kind of wanted to be in the dark corner and have no one really noticed me. And but then within my close relationships, whether it's family or friends, not even all my family or friends. And I really outgoing allowed and I never shut up, you know? So it's kind of, I was always just scared to really be myself. So I especially understand why you probably don't remember me at all, because I I really wanted it to be that way for most people I met. And then yeah, I guess the more I started stepping out into what felt right for myself, the more that kind of barrier to ways of living just falls away, and you become more authentic and you don't care anymore. So

Zack Arnold: So we're gonna get a lot deeper into, of course, the body work, the chronic pain, all the other machinations of the things that you do now. But I'm curious. And this is similar to a conversation that I had with Anna Holtzman talking about chronic pain where you guys have very, very similar stories, what was either the moment or the realization or the inciting incident where you thought, I gotta get out of here and I need to think of something else to do as the path for me for the rest of my life.

Julie Fahrbach: I have so many. That's the sad part. I knew for so long. That's not what I wanted. I can't even put a number on how many times I had that thought. But what I do remember are the times it reached the point of I will be homeless before I do this again. And towards the end. They were just the few moments I think the most memorable one to me was one of my last few jobs I worked was still a night shift. And this company was just really showing me how much I allowed. I'll put it that way, too. Yeah. And so I remember, you know, the shift just kept going than it was 4am 5am 6am. And I remember going to the bathroom and looking at myself in the mirror and my eyes were like the color of your shirt. Just saw red veiny bloodshot eye looked like just a shell of myself. And I looked myself in the eye, and I said, I will not do this to again. I just I will. We're getting you out. I don't care. Homelessness is better than this feeling. Grid. And I knew I knew I wouldn't be there's, there's home for that. But you know what I mean? It's just like, the fear I placed in myself about what would happen if I didn't have that job. No, it was no longer relevant to me. It was all fake. So that was probably the most memorable one I had is just it's painful to remember yourself suffering that much. When you had a way out. There were so many ways out. But I really have compassion for myself, because we just don't see it. We're in the one we're in the middle of suffering. And we're really, you know, filled with fear about what might happen. If we make a change. That's the number one thing I hear from most people in the industry that one out is it's like, well, I can't make this much money. Like I don't have something I can do this can provide the, the income that I need to survive. And I let that rule me for just way too long. And it's funny how the moment you're outside of that fear, all these opportunities come in, just within your mind and in real life. But all these different options really show up. And it's amazing how blinded we get by fear.

Zack Arnold: Well, I know this wasn't an overnight transformation. But one of the things you made me think of when you said is that, well, I'm never going to end up homeless. But you kind of did.

Julie Fahrbach: I know.

Zack Arnold: But by choice. So I know, that wasn't like an overnight shift to get here. But you've been kind of sort of a nomad for a while now, we've been traveling literally all over the country. And it's not like you've been, you know, slipping out of your car where you're literally homeless and no place to go. But you've made the choice to not really have one home base, because you were in this position of I would rather be homeless and not have this money coming in than ever have to put this person through this again, because she doesn't deserve it. So how did that transformation occur for you?

Julie Fahrbach: That was after the realization that I had no idea who I was, I had spent my entire life. I mean, if you think about it, yeah, through school, then there's college done, right. And the TV, everything I had ever known was to do tasks for other people to pass to keep my job. And so I was just one giant doormat that had no idea who I was. And it was basically kind of the thought of I don't even know where I would want to live. If someone asked me because I spent so long just working, I haven't really taken time to travel besides going home. So it was basically a dedication to me time to say we're gonna find you will find out what you like, where you like to go, what kind of state to enjoy yourself in what kind of ones you don't, I've really needed to pendulum swing out of city life into more nature, places much more. Just space, less concrete, more dirt. And that's what that was all about. And then I just got addicted to it, you know, because like I wanted to keep traveling and explore, though I have been.

Zack Arnold: So what are some of the things that you learned when you did get away from the concrete and surround yourself with dirt and either the things that you learned that really are helping you better understand who you are versus here's something that taught me something that I'm not just what are some of the kind of the the stories or the portions of the journey, whether good or bad that have gotten you to a higher level of clarity about who you are now.

Julie Fahrbach: Great point. I would say really all that nature time I spent showed me how much I need that. It showed me how much I've always been really into fitness and activity, but it showed me how crucial that was to me and my joy. I learned that I actually really love working with people. I don't actually prefer being in a dark room with a computer, which for a long time I thought I did. I was so introverted, felt safe, but I found that wow, I really love talking with people. And I'd always been so obsessed with the body and different ways of healing and then once I started discovering that around Sedona that's when Everything really changed. And I started to feel this new person coming through that was just here, so much more about connection and helping and purpose, rather than just something that takes, you know, emails and then complete tasks.

Zack Arnold: Which, by the way, you did a fair amount for me. And I very much appreciate there's a lot of, you know, reading and helping with emails and doing tasks and whatnot. But the reason that I bring that up, is that I think part of you finding yourself because I've now seen a fair portion of this journey from the objective side of it, but I too have on a very similar journey. And it's one thing to say objectively, well, I don't want to spend my life answering emails and doing things on a to do list. But as you've learned, there's a tremendous difference between doing things on somebody else's to do list in reality television, for example, versus the kinds of tasks and things on a to do list or emails that you're doing with optimize where one is as far from who you are as possible. And the other is much more aligned with your true purpose or your true calling. And it's still kind of busy work. And maybe you'd rather be doing something else. But it's way simpler and easier to work through those things, because they're much more aligned with your purpose. So talk about how you might even be doing a fair amount of the same tasks like you've been spending time and Adobe Premiere helping with the podcast, same tools, same environment computer, but at the end of the day, how are the same tasks feeling so different, much more aligned with who you are versus who you are? Not?

Julie Fahrbach: I love that question. It's because I believe in what's going on behind the emails and behind the premier projects. It's because what I'm working for has to me a really, really big purpose and meaning to it, instead of something that it's like, there is no like, my best work is just rotting someone's brain more. Oh, that's how I felt about the work I did. And I worked in reality, which I preferred, but reality TV for the most part, unless it was some grand nature documentary. I'm not really changing the life. So the work I do now, yeah, I don't have a problem with emails and tasks and things like that. Because it's an alignment with something that's positive, that's helping other people. And it completely shifts the way it feels to do the work.

Zack Arnold: So how did you know that that was going to be more in alignment with your purpose? How did you even know that you could still work in Premiere, and you could manage emails and you could do tasks on a to do list and in Trello, and have Mr. Magoo for a boss that forgets everything that he asks you and everything's a disorganized mess behind the scenes and you have to clean it up? How did you actually know this was in alignment with your purpose? How did you even have a purpose or a calling? Where did that come from?

Julie Fahrbach: Oh, what a deep question.

Zack Arnold: Well, what did you expect? You should have known better? Right? You're the extension of my brain. You should know the questions before I asked them at this point.

Julie Fahrbach: I know I should. That's I have no how to really answer that question. It's, I felt so lost with who I was. I'm not even sure that I was aware this was well, I was aware it was more in alignment with the purpose that I have, because it was positive. And because I was naturally drawn to it. So to me, it just felt right. But as far as I mean, you've you'd asked before, it's more recently, I've started doing stuff from Premiere you'd asked before and I just did like a Nope. Now, I don't do anything with like, editing stuff. I had a pretty big wall around that.

Zack Arnold: Yeah. But I just I've realized there was one way to instantly wipe the smile off your face. And that was to ask you to do anything assistant editor related. And then the smile was gone. You're like, No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing those tasks, right, like, a little bit of PTSD associated in those timelines, right. Yeah, absolutely. But now once we've kind of worked through some of that, and you're clear on like you said, the work that's happening behind the work, even though you're not absolutely in love with the idea of being in a premiere pro timeline and assigning markers for YouTube chapters, if you don't have that horrible aversion to it, because emotionally you're more connected to the positive impact that has versus the negative impact that it has.

Julie Fahrbach: Very much so and it's, it's actually fun. You know, when I first started being an assistant editor, I went from researcher to assistant editor because I saw shiny lights and buttons and it looks cool. Like that's the whole reason I got into it. Like this looks fun. And so it's reconnecting me back to that place like well, it is fun to be in a program with all these cool little buttons and things. And it doesn't have to be traumatizing because guess what, I get to place a boundary on when me working in that project stops. This doesn't have to be for 15 hours. So makes a difference.

Zack Arnold: Speaking along the side idea of kind of finding purpose, getting more clarity on what it is that you want to do the idea in my mind, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but the the next major milestone in this story or in this hero's journey for you was actually a very unexpected and very unpleasant event that was actually kind of the catalyst both for the work that you're doing now, and for why we're actually on this podcast. And from my perspective, it started with, Hey, guys, I just posted this kind of little thing that I wrote about this thing that happened to me recently. And I remember reading it, I'm like, How do I not know about all of this? What in the world happened? And I think you know what I'm talking about?

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah. Are you talking about the little car accident?

Zack Arnold: I'm talking about the quote unquote, little car accident, I feel like this is a huge defining inflection point in your journey. And I don't think that you and I can talk more about bodywork and chronic pain and management versus eliminating it's and all the things you're doing now without understanding this. Because if this were not a part of your life, I don't believe you'd be where you are now.

Julie Fahrbach: I agree. You know, I fully believe that if you're not getting it, if you're not stopping what you should be stopping life will do it for you. And it starts subtle, it starts with subtle signs. You might have a backache, you might have that feeling in your stomach, you might have that little thing ping in your head, I'll ping you in the head all the time like this, is it right? You blow past those enough? Oh, now, something bigger happened. But if you keep ignoring it like I did, you get into a horrific car accident, that totals your car, and the other person's. And yeah, basically, the message I wasn't getting was slow down. Stop. And I was incapable of doing that. Even though I bless the entertainment industry, it was really instilled in my mind that if I want to get anywhere in life, I have to keep pushing, I have to push harder than everybody else. And everything in my life just became. So I didn't even know the right word for that. Everything felt hectic, everything felt rushed. And I wasn't letting myself get out of that. So I had gone on a road trip to San Diego to see some family. And that whole time I was still working. So I was working on my laptop there and be family time than working family. I'd stay up late to be with family. So then I'd get up early to be doing some work. And over the course of this four days, I just completely burned myself out. And even though it was already burned out, it's so I was extremely under slept extremely. And you've talked about this a lot where you know, a brain that's lacking sleep, it's the same as a drunk person. And that's what happened. I remember that whole day, it was just off, I was cloudy, I was really moody. And I was on an on ramp to get back on a freeway, I was trying to find gas, I couldn't even navigate my way to this gas station. It was like I was just gone. And so was getting back on the freeway to try to get to this gas station. And I looked, that's the scary part. It's not like I wasn't trying, I tried my hardest to do this, right? I looked all directions and I started driving and full speed this car just hit. And it was a life changing moment. And I've read about people having these life changing moments in terms of car accidents or diseases. And I always told myself, like, we're not going to do that. We're gonna change ourselves before we hit that point. And I didn't do it. I couldn't do it. The fear of what would happen if I slowed down was too strong for me to listen to any kind of possibility about living differently. So yeah, that moment changed a lot for me. I went through quite a while after that of really PTSD because I had experienced not a traumatic event. It wasn't that it was just the car accident, but it's like any I've been in little fender benders and things and you see it coming. You have time to brace or be like, Oh, you have that moment. This was completely I was sitting just as myself and this horrific thing just exploded. I didn't know what was happening next day, like everything's smoky and there's this weird bag and wires. And I was so lost and so really grasped Hang with a sudden event like that took me out for so long that I was forced haha to slow down and take time and really just be with myself and rethink about the way I was living. So, again, if you don't do what life is nudging you to do it'll, it'll make it happen. They'll just do it before a car accident.

Zack Arnold: I'm curious, what would you say if somebody's response to that was well, sometimes things just happen you can't control car accidents and you just got unlucky. How would you respond to that?

Julie Fahrbach: You know, I do believe that sometimes things just happen, however, not with that one. Not with that one because the before and after that car accident was so drastic for me as a person, that there's no doubt in my mind. That was my it wasn't a wake up call. It was a sledge hammer. And it was just to me, there's no question that Sure, sometimes things just happen, you slip and fall, what to do. But for something that stops your life in its tracks, and shifts the way you live it, that's different.

Zack Arnold: Now we're going to have the benefit of hindsight, which is in order for us to move forward and talk more about chronic pain and how it works and how we can manage it in the work that you do. I want you to use hindsight, to talk about some of the chronic pain symptoms that you had, that in hindsight, you're like, moron, why aren't you doing anything about this? So what what are some of the things specifically that we're manifesting that were so obvious in hindsight, that maybe for others that haven't gone through a transformation as dramatically as you have, can kind of be these these check engine lights, so to speak, pun someone intended?

Julie Fahrbach: I love that. Yeah. So this is great, because I think expanding the term chronic pain helps people a lot to realize that it's happening. So chronic pain can be chronic tension, you could have that place in your back, that's just kind of always tense. It can lead to chronic aches, there's just an aching, there's chronic injuries that start to happen that same area, you just keep injuring. And of course chronic pain goes into more extreme things like fibromyalgia things to that extent, but also chronic pain, eyelink and chronic anxiety, chronic depression, chronic emotional problems. And so the main things that I had been experiencing, I had had a lot of depression and anxiety that I just thought, well, I just need to cope better. So you know, I stayed on high doses medication, I went all the therapy, I did the life coaching adult stuff, you know. And besides that, I would have a lot of chronic tension in my neck and shoulders. Yeah, and that's where a lot of people I would work with, like, oh, this chair, this chairs off, or I need to like fix my keyboard. And I was kind of going through the same things. And now looking back, it's just like, I mean, it's not the chair, it's not your office chair shirt makes a difference, not that we get a difference, if it's years of this chronic pain. So I would say looking back for sure. All that anxiety, depression, back pain, it was just those check engine lights. And I the sad part is I was doing what I knew best to address those I was trying. But I'd never dug deep enough to think of a solution that was perhaps bigger than a pill, or a therapy session or a massage therapy session.

Zack Arnold: Whenever I see somebody post in a Facebook group or whatever about like desk chairs, like you said ergonomics or the mouse or the chair like hey, what what's the best gesture that everybody recommends, we're having a lot of lumbar issues with as the best lumbar support. And I just desperately want to post, the best desk chair is getting out of your office. That's the best desk chair, whether it's for a 15 minute walk, it's for an afternoon or it's for a week, you want to reduce or eliminate the lumbar pain. Get away from your computer and experience a little bit of life and move your body. Right and you're one of the My Favorite Things that I learned from very early in the fitness and post days from an ergonomics expert that blew my mind was this thing that he called the ergonomics 2.0, which is that your best position is always your next position. game changer for me. So now it's not about what is the chair? What is the mouse? I mean, yeah, there are things that can help with ergonomics. And I have some issues with chronic pain in my forearms because of the way that I'm typing all day long, or all the crazy ninja stuff I'm doing with ropes and bars and whatnot. But ultimately, the more you're changing your position and getting away from the thing that's causing the pain in the first place as opposed to try to cope with it or do the slight adjustments or the pillow on the chair or whatever. Like that's just kind of a microcosm of all these bigger changes that we're Talking about. And what we're going to get to soon is what I know is a giant pet peeve of yours. Insert giant giant exploding head emoji with fire coming off of it, of this debate between managing chronic pain and curing it. But I want to start with the management side, because this is where most people focus their attention. And it's not to say that there are bad things about learning how to better manage chronic pain. But obviously, if we can eliminate it, and we can understand the root source and take a more holistic approach, we want to do that. But let's just start with the chronic pain management side of things to help people better understand what does that look like, what are the signs of it, like you said, you've got the, the pills or whatever it might be. But talk to me about your feelings when it comes to managing chronic pain and what that looks like.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah, trigger. So managing chronic pain to me, what is most, really shown as now is mindfulness techniques, if you really start digging into all these different methods that are saying, you know, we'll help with chronic pain, if you really dig into it, it has something to do with the mind, it's going into the mind. And a lot of the times it's using mindfulness techniques to basically lessen the pain, Lessen the Fear, around the pain, lessen your kind of sadness around the pain, any kind of feelings that you have around your chronic pain, you're working to let that go so that your pain naturally decreases, because it's not also adding in all of these extra reasons, you're now even more tense. So what that says to me is, there's nothing we can really do to take your chronic pain away, we're just going to help you cope with it. And that really pisses me off. Because it's like, now you're telling someone, oh, this is just you now, sorry, we'll just help you cope with that the best insure if, let's say, if that car accident I had I shattered my body. And now I'm a titanium robot on the inside, I'm probably going to have have to cope with chronic pain the rest of my life. That is there are circumstances like that. Sure. But as far as it being just even fibromyalgia, you can absolutely take the symptoms of that away. But you all these people that hear about it as a life curse, I believe that we feel to the level to which our mind is open to it. And so what you're doing is limiting the level to which your mind can be open to chronic pain being healed. If you say the best we can do is lessen it, and deal with quote unquote flare ups. If you're dealing with flare ups, you have not addressed your chronic pain. You've helped to cope with it, but you haven't reached the root source of it. And you haven't allowed that to heal itself.

Zack Arnold: I believe that's what we call in the industry and mic drop moment. I want you to say this one more time, because very rarely do I stop everything that I'm doing and think I'm going to have to stop listening. And I need to write this down. Because this is a game changer mic drop moment. I want you to say again, this idea about our willingness to accept healing.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah, you will heal. So the level to which you're open to it, the level to which you believe that can happen.

Zack Arnold: What does that mean? That just does not sound like the way that I've been taught in modern science and medicine. And if they're gonna give me a pill that does a thing, it's either going to do it or not going to do it. But what does my mind have to do with any of this?

Julie Fahrbach: Well put it this way. We don't know things until we're, we're taught those things. And actually even beyond that, sometimes we do kind of instinctively know things. But if no one else is talking about it, if no one else is doing that, and if the specialists that you're seeing in the areas are seeking help aren't talking about it in that way, you're probably going to shut that down. And so it's really about when your mind is open to an option, you're probably going to seek that option. And I'm thinking of a time I'd gone to I'd spoke with you a few times about having some trouble sleeping. And so it reached a point I thought well let me go visit a doctor and talk about it immediately. Listing sleeping pill prescriptions. And I started bringing up well what about different things, you know, I know that hormones have things to do with your sleep like cortisol and wonder just some higher natural stress and pretty type A so there's that and it was shut down like no. Cortisol doesn't affect your sleep at all. Cortisol only deals with rapid weight gain, and you're small so you don't have a cortisol problem. And

Zack Arnold: This is coming from a medical doctor wearing a white lab coat

Julie Fahrbach: in the coat. And I was so furious because I thought I know better, my mind has expanded beyond these things that are being said in the room. But what if they weren't? What if they weren't, then that person can only help themselves to the level of that knowledge that they were given. And that's what really pisses me off about the concept of, of managing chronic pain of managing your flare ups is you're letting people know, this is permanent. And the best that we can do is kind of lessen this pain, help you work with it more, you'll probably experience it less, you might have it less often. But when it does come up, you know, these are the ways that you can emotionally handle that. No, absolutely not. There's just an amazing option right here that's available to actually get rid of that chronic pain, whether it's tension, injury, headaches, migraines, emotional, whatever it is, there's an option for that. But we're just not taught about that.

Zack Arnold: And I want to get more into that option, which can potentially be a real solution. But for a second, we're going to take a soapbox moment, and you and I are going to get on a soapbox together. And you've heard this many, many times, and maybe my audience has as well, I've had to build an addition on my house to hold all of my soap boxes, because I ran out of room and this is one of the many. This is what I call the placebo effect. So box. I've talked about this with many people talked about it with doctors talking about it with laypersons talked about with authors. And it infuriates me, when people talk about the placebo effect, like it's a bad thing. Oh, well, you know, you've got the placebo effect in these pills. And for anybody that doesn't understand the placebo effect, it's built into clinical trials for medication, where a certain percentage get the real medication in pill form and a certain percentage get a sugar pill. And for a fair amount of very high amount much further beyond any logic or reason to the area of like, this doesn't make logical sense. People get the same results from a sugar pill as the other people that are getting the real pill because they don't know the difference. And when somebody says, Well, yeah, that's just the placebo effect. My response is, who cares, they feel better, they're getting the results that they want. It doesn't matter if they had a certain chemical in their bloodstream, or it was a sugar pill. Ultimately, the healing happened, even in pill form, because they believed that it could, the level of confidence they have in the doctor the level of confidence they have in the medication, the fact that they're we're taking it activated something in their brain that we don't even understand, which is this should work. So I'm going to give it a try. As opposed to if you were to give somebody something where they're convinced there's no way this could work. Guess what, there's no way it's going to work. So this idea of the placebo effect is so much ingrained in this and it drives me crazy when people say, Oh, well, that's just a placebo. I don't care, I'm getting the same results. Why does that matter? And that's going to factor heavily into what you and I are going to start talking about next, which is this actual solution. But before we step off the soapbox, I'm going to give you your chance to stand on the same soapbox, because I have a feeling that you are in agreement on this.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah, I love this soapbox. I also I just don't care if it's placebo or not. Sometimes I'll just actively search for what activates my placebo. And it could be that these things are actually working. I don't know. And I don't care. I just think it's all about find what works for you. And I was talking with one of my brothers about this. And, you know, he was listing all these different kinds of things. And they were, you know, things that we've talked about before where it's like, oh, doing the sauna. doing massage I didn't quite remember is this big list of different just self care things to do. And we had made that joke about placebo. And I said, just like your say, well, it doesn't really matter. Like find which one of those things on the list activates your placebo best. It doesn't mean that, in my opinion, it's actually not working. I think a lot of those things do. But for that argument that it's just placebo. A green is sure. Okay, well, I feel better. So

Zack Arnold: I'm also glad that you pointed this out to just so it doesn't get lost in the rant is that I'm not saying that the actual pills or chemicals or treatments or whatever aren't working and it's all placebo, I just want to point out that there's something else at play beyond the actual chemical formulation of Any specific pill. So it's not me saying universally, none of the medications work and none of the treatments work. And it's all based on placebo. People love to turn my words around all the time. And I hear people will say at some event or whatever, like, Oh, I know that you believe this? And like, No, I don't I don't believe that at all. I said something kinda sort of similar, but it's been taken so out of context, and people have played the telephone game, that all of a sudden everybody says Zach doesn't believe that luck exists. I do believe that luck exists. You're taking me out of context. And I want to make sure when it comes to the placebo effect, it's the same thing. I'm not saying the medication, the pills and the treatments don't have merit and aren't actually working but we need to acknowledge there's something Yo, what's going on with the way that our brains work that we don't completely understand. That's also working. And the placebo effect is the best way we have currently to describe it.

Julie Fahrbach: I love that point that it's a matter of our brains wanting to understand it, and we have to let that go. So you want to feel better than just let that go. Maybe you'll understand later. But it's like you were describing the work that I do on you, you're like, I still don't know what happens. But it's like it's helping. So exactly. Let your mind catch up with it later. Because I think that's one of the other soap boxes that I love to stand on, is that our mind has seeped out of the way. We're dealing with chronic pain, whether that's an actual, like physical pain feeling, or that's an emotional pain feeling that's in the body, that is in the bodies of mind, at this point has nothing else to do with healing it as far as I'm concerned, mindfulness techniques are fantastic for helping to prevent chronic pain. For example, if I were more mindful while working in television about my body's feelings, when I get a yes, or I get a No, I would have probably had a lot more fuel for boundaries, I would have understood. So mindfulness is great about going in and really feeling where are my boundaries? How can I place them? How can I prevent this mass amount of tension and depression and anxiety, whether it's the job or the relationship, or whatever it is. So that's where mindfulness fits to me. But when it comes to actually healing in the mind, it's this is the body's time, it's been ignored, it's been trying to give us signals forever. And it's time to listen to that and hear what it needs and has to say

Zack Arnold: The other thing that I want to mention just on top of this, given that this is an interview in a three part series, all about better managing and understanding chronic pain. And we have two other members of the series that are very much in the space of mindfulness and awareness. And using this as a tool, I just want to make sure to be very, very clear that I think that is an absolutely essential tool in the toolbox. And I know you're saying the same thing. When people come out of the Optimize Yourself program, whether they're going to focus yourself path, the advance yourself path or otherwise, in which we don't really spend much time on any of this specifically. But the point is that the number one piece of feedback that I get from students, and you know this because you help manage emails and testimonials, and everything else, it's not Oh, you know, learning Trello was awesome. Or I feel so much better about how to write an outreach email, it's I have such a higher level of awareness of what what wasn't working for me before. And I now have the tools to have more awareness to make better choices in the future. Whether it's saying yes to the right things, saying no to the wrong things. There is nothing in my mind more powerful than awareness. And once you have awareness, that's a switch that you can't turn off like, Oh, I've got all this awareness is causing all these problems go away, just go back into my shell. Once you flip the switch on, you don't flip it off. And I think specific to chronic pain, all of the things that crystianna talked about that Anna talked about using journaling, and the creative process and meditation and mindfulness practices, I think they're absolutely essential. I just want to make that clear. So that when people are trying to parse these together, like Oh, is Julie saying that none of that is useful or make sense. And you can expand upon that. I don't think that it is we're talking about another layer that we get to add on to something that I think is tremendously beneficial. Agree or disagree,

Julie Fahrbach: Fully agree. Yeah, there is absolute room for mindfulness techniques. And I think especially once you do find awareness, there's probably nothing more painful than awareness, that first chunk of time where you become aware of not only what you're feeling, but what you've been feeling how you've ignored it. Man, when that surfaces, you really need some tools, you need the journaling, you need the meditation, you need the mindfulness techniques to go in and calm yourself. That's crucial. And you're right, that what I'm talking about is when we go a step further into the actual source of the chronic pain, and helping to relieve ourselves of that. But that's just one piece of chronic pain, because the whole reason it's there is for all those things before that lack of awareness, that lack of connection to our body where we can actually feel what our boundaries should have been.

Zack Arnold: So here comes the money question. That's frankly, going to be the hardest one to answer. Because anytime that somebody asked me to answer this question, I have no idea how to do it. What is it that you do?

Julie Fahrbach: You know, what's funny is I even have a hard time explaining this. So the process that I do, I do a form called body memory recall. And this was founded by Jonathan Tripodi, who at the time when I met him lived in Sedona and this body work absolutely transformed my life. And session one I said, Sign me up. I want to know this, I want to do this. And what that process does, is it it's really really, really, really focused on survival mode taking you out of survival mode, that protective response. And that's what these other things aren't really addressing. So we all know a fight and flight, those two responses, but one that's a lot less talked about us the freeze response. And when that happens, we truly get locked, we get locked in a feeling, we get locked in the energy of that we suppress, we become neck down dead. And that's where, you know, those check engine lights might be going off, but we're not quite getting it. So what the work I do does, it's essentially really connecting with the person and giving them a safe place to come out of that protective response. Because once that drops, then our body is able to start releasing these chronic tensions through the process is called unwinding. And that is my favorite process in the world. So unwinding is when it's our body's innate talent intelligence that knows how to do this, it will naturally start moving on its own, it'll move shape Twitch, and just start to expel that suppressed tension to suppress energies. So suppressed emotions, experiences, that we're all trapped by us being stuck in that freeze response. So don't know if that explains that a little bit better, we'll obviously dive deeper. But that's kind of the overall theme of what I do is I help you drop out of your protective response and show you this is all the person it's not me. That's what's different about massage therapy, or any kind of thing like that. It's, we're all capable of this process. And it's just helping that person go through it,

Zack Arnold: I think this is a start, I think we've got to do a little bit more work to clarify what this looks like. Because if I were to set up a camera, while you're doing the treatment, it is one layer below watching paint dry, I would actually rather watch paint dry because at least then there are colors. So if I were just standing there and I were watching a massage therapist working on a patient, I get it totally makes sense. You know, they're needing the muscles and gently relaxing the person and stretching the neck and working on the glutes or whatever it might be I intrinsically without really understanding the nuances of it. If you were to show to any lay person, a massage therapist, they say they're getting a massage. Now let's set up a camera watching you do your treatment. What are you doing?

Julie Fahrbach: I love this question. It's amazing. So I'm going to talk about what I do, and then what the others aren't doing. So let's say someone's come to me for like, upper back pain, that thoracic spine, there's some back neck pain, shoulder pain, all that stuff. So massage therapist would go in and just kind of work those areas and help release the muscles. But what they're not doing is taking the time, what they're not doing is actually stopping and letting the body come out of a protective response. They have kind of, I always say they have an agenda. And this is why unfortunately, I can't really always enjoy massages that much anymore, because you feel the agenda. Now I'm on the arm for 15 minutes. Now I'm on the lake for 15 minutes, and they're not present with you. So really what this is doing is it's getting in touch with the person, the person behind that back pain, what's really going on. So for watching paint dry, it's, it's honestly so much more painful for the high achievers like yourself that are like, but you're not doing anything. This is all about what are you gonna do. When in my world what I'm feeling I'm feeling everything. So for example, if someone were to just place their hand on your chest, and stay there, as you're lying there, it's probably it's uncomfortable. That's not what we're naturally used to. It's kind of intrusive, it's awkward, what's happening, you kind of start burning through all these feelings like but we're not doing anything. And then you start to drop in, then you start to find awareness, someone's actually helping you drop paths, that protective response, which is all very much in the mind as well. So once you drop paths that amazing things start to happen. That's where the body starts to actually just drop its own muscles. So when I'm feeling if I'm even saying working on someone's neck, and I'm just holding that area, I'll feel that really, really tense. Like muscles and fascia. All of it all feel the tenseness of that. And if you just wait one minute, 10 minutes, who knows whatever it takes for that person Then you'll feel things start to soften, you'll feel the muscles release, then you can start to feel the actual fascia dissolve. And then what happens is as they drop out of the protective response, their own body will start to move to release its tension. And that's the secret. That is the secret of it is that your body knows exactly where the tension is. It knows why it's there. And it knows exactly how to release it. So this even though it looks like nothing is really just bringing your body in that area until a place that safe enough to allow it to go through the process that it naturally wants to do. But we're so locked that it can't.

Zack Arnold: Now I'm going to come from my perspective, and I'm going to help people better understand this. Because if we, if the shortest version of I have the camera set up and you're watching a treatment, the way that somebody would describe it is Julie's holding somebody's head. Julie saw holding somebody's head, five minutes later, did she turn it, I can't tell maybe she did. But it feels like she hasn't moved. And if we were to Time Lapse It, what you do, and I don't even know because I lose track of time. But what you do in an hour, an hour and a half of your time last it, it would look like you're moving somebody's head back and forth. And they're just relaxing into it. And then kind of doing the same thing with an arm or a shoulder. But in real time, it's just absolutely static. And still what's happening from my perspective as somebody on the table, and I've been doing massage therapy, all the various forms for well over 20 years. And until I had this treatment, my favorite thing on the planet was massage therapy. If I were in a financial position to do it, I would literally hire a massage therapist to live in my house. And it would be a daily occurrence because of the just the immense amount of benefits that I get from it. And then I started doing this treatment with you. And all of a sudden you just kind of put your hands behind my neck, oh my god, we're gonna start with kind of releasing the tension in the neck and doing the massage and all of a sudden, I'm like, why aren't you doing anything? Are we doing something? Are you going to turn my head? Are you going to stretch it? Are you going to put your thumb in the you know, the trapezius muscle? Are we going to start to do need like massage? Or like what's going on? Why are we not doing things? Right, and it just becomes really nerve racking. But then what happens in this I've, I've lost count, I've probably worked with 30 Plus massage therapists. I had one and frankly, she spoiled me because it was the first person I ever did massage with in LA, that would literally life changing life transformational experiences, where I would come out of it. And I felt like I had been floating and had this transcendent experience and felt completely different. I was like, I'm just going to release 25 pounds of pressure on your body. But the way she did it was intense physical pressure. I mean, it would like you would you would break down in tears from the level of pressure, but she understood how to flow with your body and how I didn't it was almost a meditative experience where her breath was connected with my as a really cool experience. But the point is that if somebody were to watch the game tape of that, and see the after words, experience and feeling that I had, it would totally make sense. I go, I can see why you had that transcendent experience, it was super crazy deep tissue, you are releasing all this tension. There's a logic between the treatment and the results. I've gotten the exact same results and more from working with you. But there's no logic for how I got there. Because there was never any pressure or tension or I'm going to dig my elbow behind your shoulder blades until you can't take it anymore. Right. But what what I found happens is that and I don't know how long it takes, in my mind, it probably takes about 20 minutes, maybe it takes three maybe it takes an hour. I remember one of the first times we work together and we were done. I'm like, how long was that? You know, like, it's been three hours? And like, what, how is that even possible? But what's happening in my mind is I'm thinking and once this was once I settled it once I'm like, okay, I get what this is I'm just going to embrace it. We're going to see how this works. And all of a sudden, what would happen is I would start to feel the release happening. And this happens in massage too. I'm like, Okay, I want you to get that one spot or maybe term I really want my head to turn to the right. And usually with a massage therapist, you're like, are they gonna? Are they gonna hit that spot? Crap, they move down to the shoulders. All right, well, maybe next time or, but you have this intuitive sense of this is really where I want the pressure or the stretch. And what happens and it's not a fluke because it happens over and over and over and over. Oh, can we just turn my head a little bit to the right Oh, my head just turned a little bit to how did she know that I wanted to do that. Oh, you know what, this time just do like a real long wide stretch five seconds later. Oh my God, that's exactly the stretch that I wanted. So it's like this, this experience where you are literally wired inside my head. And at first I just didn't get it. But now the more that you explain it, you can actually feel my body saying This is the direction that I want to go. And as soon as I say, this is where I want the relief next, I get the relief there. And it's the craziest experience, what is going on? A few things.

Julie Fahrbach: So this has a couple of layers to it. And you're kind of at the layer one where people are

Zack Arnold: This is like Scientology. Yeah, that's right. So I'm just becoming clear. That's what's going on right now I see how this works.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah. So I think that, the first thing to understand is that the movement you're doing, you are not doing, your body is doing. This is the process of unwinding. And I think we might want to back up and explain that a little bit more first. So unwinding is something that we've actually all experienced. This is when you're reading a paper in front of the class, and you're shaking, this is when you're going to sleep at night, and out of nowhere, your leg just kicks like you, I'm assuming you've had all these different times where your body's kind of moving on its own, and it's releasing an energy. That's what unwinding is, this is what we're designed to do. But we shut it down because of our protective response. And also, it's not really you know, suitable in society. Just be walking around if we haven't experienced to shake it out in public. But really, this is what we're designed to do. And these are things like Peter Levine was Somatic Experiencing sweat he's guiding people through. There's all kinds of different techniques that teach this, the first one I actually found out about was TRE is a trauma release experience, or exercises barring. And it's basically just activating your body's innate ability to literally move on its own and work out its own tensions. So at the core of those tensions might be your stress, it might be an emotional experience you had as a child, it might even really have no story at all it depends. But that's what we're releasing. So what you're experiencing is unwinding. It's the feeling of your body moving on its own. So what's interesting is you think that I'm moving it. But in reality, I'm so tuned in with you, I don't move during sessions, I'll move between one part of the table to another. But when your neck is moving around, I'm not moving either, is that helps paint that picture.

Zack Arnold: So now I'm just assuming I've become a Ouija board, we've gone from Scientology to a Ouija board, I'm really freaked out.

Julie Fahrbach: That's actually the perfect way to put it. So again, your body knows where the tension is. It knows why it knows why it's there. And it also knows how to release it. So it's going to move on its own and do that. So that's basically what we're tapping into. Now, the more you do this work, and some people right away get into this, they'll feel that their body's doing it on its own right away. For me, I think why I really liked this work, I'm so sensitive, that the second, I know the session is getting ready to start, you don't even have to touch my body. And something just I start shaking. And I just like I started unwinding. It's just my natural process. So I feel really comfortable helping guide people to that place. And really, it's just about shutting down that protective response again, just so the body can go into that state that it does on its own. So that is what's interesting is everyone's treatments are, are very different. Some people don't really move too much at all, but I can feel that within the tissues. There's a lot going on, and they'll have a lot of really large epiphanies, things like that can happen. But yeah, it's it's the process we're designed to do. And it's it's frustrating to me that it's not so widely talked about. But what I'm happy Is it is it is happening, somatic experiencing that kind of therapy is really kicking off heavier and heavier, and bringing this kind of process to the world. So it's something that you can do on your own. You don't have to have a practitioner working on you. For this to happen. This is something we're literally innately designed to do. And it helps to not only release the muscle tension when you come out of the protective response, but the key to it is it's helping work with the fascia. When a muscle is tense, fascia doesn't know the difference, it's going to form around that muscle. Once that happens, that's when chronic pain starts to really kick in, because that's when there's something being held your bones, your structure, you being pulled out of alignment, you're going to start having more injuries, you're going to really start just getting into chronic pain. So what's amazing about unwinding is the body can literally work with its own fashion a way to release it that doesn't take the elbow. That's why this is the same result as the person that just digs the elbow really intensely. What we're learning more and more about fascia is how important it is in the body. It's literally it's one continuous web 3d like web, never ending from head to toe. And this goes through is connected everything. It's not just laying on the outside of your muscles, like a lot of people think this is through everything, even bone, brain everywhere. So if you have tension in one part of your body, it's essentially affecting the entire rest of your body. And so the standard way to work with fascia is to take the elbow or to take the muscle rolling ball and just jam it in there, experience a ton of pain and loosen it. And the truth is, that can work. You know, that can loosen up that fascia. But what it hasn't done is it hasn't taken you down to the level of coming out of your protective response to release that on its own to release the deeper meaning behind why that muscle is tense, the energy is lodged in there. So it's just going to reform. So what's beautiful about this work, when you let the body do it is it doesn't take extreme pain, it doesn't mean it can't be uncomfortable, the places your bodies might take you the position that might be turning your neck and head. But it's not that same kind of pain. And that's what makes this permanent, you've now released what's being held inside, because what's held inside of us those suppressed stresses, they want to be released. But they have to be heard and felt first is for whatever reason our body needs that to happen, needs to be felt experienced, understood and released.

Zack Arnold: One of the reasons I wanted to talk about the placebo effect first is that if somebody's jamming their elbow or their knee into you, or it's a lacrosse ball, or it's a foam roller with spikes, we know if we're getting results where the results are coming from right, we feel the pain, we feel the discomfort, therefore it's got to be doing something right, it's got to be getting the results. Whereas the process of working with you, you're thinking this couldn't possibly be doing anything. So if you're not accepting to the healing process or understanding that it could be doing something, it's not going to do something. So that's one of the reasons I wanted to bring that up. And I had one additional thought that came to mind and describing the unwinding process. And it actually involves my puppy. So Well, when I was in the prison, you and I haven't talked about this yet. And I want to make sure that I'm representing this properly. But when we got our puppy, I wanted to make sure that we got a trainer because I'm just a big believer that if if you want to get to a certain point, whatever that goal might be the fastest path is just to if you have it, spend the money to get somebody to do it that's already doing it all day long. Every day, I could learn from you too. But I could pick away and read a book here or there. I'm like, I'm just gonna bring in a trainer to tell me all the things that I need to know in the right order. So I can train my dog. And one of the biggest challenges we had was taking her for a walk and just just going like crazy, pulling the leash, she was walking me I wasn't walking her. We still have a little bit of that challenge to the day. But she's definitely settled down. But the most amazing realization that I had during the walk was that whenever dogs like kind of shake themselves out, right, we just assume it. Well, that's what a wet dog does. Right? And she would do it. And the trainer said, it's really important that you understand what's going on right now. This is how dogs shake off anxiety, if something, spooks them or scares them. This is how they just involuntarily shed the anxiety. And now when I take my dog for a walk to this day, I could draw an X on the sidewalk at every single point where she's going to do that, because she does it at the same time on every walk. And it's because that's where the dogs are in the neighborhood. Wow. What I've seen happen that's even more fascinating is that I can pinpoint those corners. If the dog that's on the other side of the fence or whatever wasn't there that day, she still shakes it out because she expected that dog to jump out and bark and scare her. And if it didn't, she still has the exact shake out experience, which I've been watching. And I'm like this is fascinating. I'm assuming that's an example of unwinding.

Julie Fahrbach: Perfect. Yeah, that's it. That's exactly what it is. It's not just humans, it's all animals. And so if you watch animals, they're doing it. This is the especially the freeze response, fainting goats exhibit A, that's exactly what that is. They walk up, they fall over. It's hysterical to us. But that's the freeze response. And that's what we're doing. But we do it on this very unconscious level. And it's so habitual these days because of the amount of stress that we have available at all times. So that's the perfect example of it. One other thing I call it the gateway drug to unwinding is a process called panda chelation. And so that's something we all experience but it's a weird word we don't know about

Zack Arnold: As it says this sounds like something you're gonna get into spelling bee in the final round.

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah. So that one Is the yawn. That one is when we start to stretch, have you ever felt it take over, you know, especially when combined with the yawn, and there's that sound, that is the eye twitch. That's the dog shaking, that's the cat, they, whenever they get up, they do that epic like cat stretch. So that is, it's all the same process. It's the body removing tension on its own, and we're all capable of doing it. It's something that we've just shut down. What's amazing is that if you work on babies or young children, they'll go right into it. Similar, like the way I do, I guess I'm just a big baby. But it's like, there's no reason for them to not do it. The reason that we have to not do it is our fear response. It's a matter of surrendering and surrendering, it can honestly be one of the most difficult parts about being human, that process of surrender, to surrender enough to let your body completely move on its own, who knows what's going to come out? Who knows what kind of emotion you might experience, the vulnerability it takes to just step into that process is not only crucial, obviously to have it work. But we have to honor the fact that that's really difficult. That's difficult for people. And that's why this takes really the appearance of me not doing anything, it takes that presence, calmness, awareness, that safety, letting someone feel safe enough to just allow that natural process to happen.

Zack Arnold: Let me go back to something you mentioned a second ago. Because I'm very much a recovering perfectionist and a high achiever. I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed that I'm only at level one. And I'm not at level two, what, what is it that I'm missing if I am only at level one, and there's a whole nother level of this madness,

Julie Fahrbach: Surrendering, it's letting go more than you can possibly imagine yourself letting go. It's the ultimate. Just you know what, I don't need any of this anymore. I don't need to hang on to this anymore. I don't need to have to control the way my body holds its tension, I don't need to try and control the way it releases it. I give up and let it happen. So level two people are typically those who are in extreme chronic pain, they're in extreme suffering, they have nothing left. They don't care. They have no fight left. Even if they wanted this to not happen. There's no fight left for them. So when they lay down, it's it's a beautiful process where they just naturally start expelling the suppressed memories, emotions, tensions, experiences. And the most amazing things happen from that all these weird, lifelong pains are gone. All these weird, lifelong emotional experiences have been lifted. And the process that comes after that is so beautiful, because not only does the body know how to release everything that's being held, but it always has a message for us. After something's released, it goes right into the mind that gives us the most epic insight or message we could possibly imagine. And so it's a lot about understanding Oh, that's what I was hanging on to this whole time. This is why I don't need to hang on to that anymore. So really, yeah, advancing to the point where this just naturally happens is just absolute process of full surrender, and allowing, and if that's hard for people, it's vulnerability. It's fear of judgment. It's fear of what is this absolutely breaks me What does I actually feel what I'm suppressing, folly breaks me. And what's funny is you can feel the worst pain in your life. And in a few moments, it's gone, and you'll never feel better. And we've avoided that pain for decades. And it's just so beautiful to let the body do what it does naturally. And just go right into that process and release. So the more you can surrender, and it took me a long time, we'll be able to do that myself. Not with everything, but especially with the voice, every kind of release will have a sound, you know, our body will will release through movement, press changes, temperature changes sound, I was really locked in my voice because that was part of my story. All let's just never speak up for ourselves. Let's just let everyone do whatever they want to me. And so that was hard for me to be vulnerable around and let go. But there's really no better gift you can give yourself than to allow yourself to feel the depths of your pain that you've been hanging on to because it doesn't want to be there as much as you don't want to have it there. It wants to release and the other side of that is just beautiful. You step into your power you step into your purpose you step into what it feels like I do not have a body so completely 10 stung in pain all the time. So to me, that's worth the moments of just allowing vulnerability and allowing that discomfort to happen.

Zack Arnold: Well, I want to make sure that we can give people this gift. And simultaneously, I very much have a alternate ulterior motive that you and I have discussed behind the scenes, but it's time to put this out into the universe, we need to get you back into Los Angeles, this whole nomad lifestyle and going to live free amongst the trees and the rocks. It's all wonderful. But you and I have the goal of we want to get you back to Los Angeles, not because you want to re embrace your love of concrete. But because you have discovered that this is really where your tribe is, and the version of you that feels the most like you as being around the community that we've created and being more actively involved. And one of the reasons that we struggled to do that just comes down to numbers. And I firmly and strongly believe that the service that you provide to others literally is transformational. So for those that are listening today that are thinking, this could be interesting. And I might want to give this a shot, I want to make sure that they know how to connect with you. And we can get you out here to start helping people not only manage and live with their chronic pain, but actually embrace it, surrender to it, and maybe even eliminate it. So what does that look like if I wanted to actually work with you? What what is that process?

Julie Fahrbach: Yeah, so I do two things. One is the body work that you've experienced, where I will personally be with you and work with you to facilitate your unwinding. The other process is online. I hate the word coaching. But it's you know, it helps describe what it is,

Zack Arnold: How funny is it by the way that you said you hate the term coaching. Given the work that you and I are doing together,

Julie Fahrbach: It's just so it's been taken and made something and now I don't like it. It's not that I don't like that. It's just I don't know, if it quite fits what I would describe. I would say educating, I helped educate a home, not sure how to put it, but you can learn how to unwind on your own, you don't have to have someone helping you. Basically, when I work on someone, it's a nice addition to help you come out of the freeze response. But we're all capable of disability. So I help to train people how to do that at home, what I find is the combination is really profound, because there are certain things that you're going to really release and deal with only in the comfort of a practitioner being with you. And there's certain things that you're going to release and deal with only when you're alone. So knowing both is really really, I think crucial, experiencing both. But those are the two ways that I help people deal and, you know, fix chronic pain, and not just manage it.

Zack Arnold: Alright, so how do I do it? What's the next step?

Julie Fahrbach: Somaticfocus.com, that's my website.

Zack Arnold: Somaticfocus.com. And I'm assuming that you're very approachable and reachable and looking for people to connect with you. And anybody that would like me to facilitate the connection. Pretty sure I can get a hold of Julie directly. I'm pretty confident that we have a we have a first person connection, whether it be via slack via text message via the multitude of email addresses that I have and the multitude of them that you are able to manage behind the scenes, or via whatever connection we have yet to determine or understand is literally the direct connection between our brains. Yeah, right, which will which we call the Zuly. Path. Yep. So on that note, one final question. You probably know it's coming because you've listened to a podcast or two, maybe you don't. We're gonna play a time traveling game. Oh, here comes she sees that I see the face. She knows the question. We're going to time travel. And I think you know the moment we're going to time travel back to you're staring in the mirror. You're looking at yourself with a bloodshot eyes. What advice do you give yourself?

Julie Fahrbach: Well, speaking of bloodshot eyes, totally going to cry. You know, I would tell myself, you're capable. You're capable of anything that you want to do. You don't have to do what you think you have to do to survive. You're capable, you're powerful, you're intelligent, you're giving You're smart. Just go just run. Just go.

Zack Arnold: I couldn't have said it better myself. I appreciate everything that you've done for me for this program behind the scenes. I'm glad that we could finally talk to talk you into getting in front of a microphone and sharing all this and I think this is just going to be the catalyst in the very beginning of something much larger to come and not advocate or emphasize enough for anybody that's listening. Whether or not you're skeptical. This is something that you want to investigate if you are managing or dare I say suffering from chronic pain. This is literally a game changer. So on that note, I want to thank you for finally allowing us to get this conversation on the record and I have a feeling that there will be more conversations like this to come. So, Julie, thank you for being with us today.

Julie Fahrbach: Well, thank you. I really appreciate it. I'll be talking to you soon.

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Zack Arnold

Stop “Managing” Your Chronic Pain and Start Fixing It | with Julie Fahrbach

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