How to Manage An Identity Crisis (Especially When You Know You’re Meant For Something More) | with Erica Wernick

About Episode

“In this industry we are conditioned to believe that our voice is not important.”

Erica Wernick, former graphic designer and founder of Hollywood Success Coach, has always been goal-oriented, systems-based, and a Type-A personality (at this point I’m convinced we’re separated at birth). But when she found herself during the pandemic wandering aimlessly without a clear goal and unable to “fix it” with her usual strategies and frameworks, she quickly spiraled down into the dark holes of doubt, insecurity, and ultimately a deep depression.

Identity can be a double-edged sword, especially when your livelihood is creative work. No doubt like me at one point or another you’ve said “What I do isn’t just a job, it’s who I am.” Yes your identity can help guide and motivate you to achieve the success you’ve always dreamed of, but it can also be incredibly dangerous when you completely define yourself by what you do, especially during unemployment..and especially during pandemics.

It wasn’t until Erica learned to let go of her long held identities and listen to something deeper that she could lift herself out of the darkness, accept help, and become herself again. This conversation dares you (and me!) to test your beliefs about who you are and what you do beyond your job. Erica challenges me on my own beliefs about what the success path for creative professionals really looks like and questions whether it can truly be distilled into simple action steps. And most importantly, Erica and I hope to normalize the discussion of mental health and depression and remind anyone who’s struggling with their own issues to know you are absolutely not alone – there are resources to support you.

Key Takeaways

A coach’s number one priority should be to help people believe in themselves.

Transcript

Zack Arnold: Hello and welcome to episode number 178 of the Optimize Yourself Podcast. It means the world to me that with all the podcast choices out there, you have chosen to invest your valuable time and attention with me. I promise you are not going to regret it after listening to my interview today with Erica Wernick, who is a former graphic designer and founder of Hollywood Success Coach. Now, Erica has always been goal oriented, systems based and a type A personality. And already at this point, I'm convinced we're probably separated at birth. But when Erica found herself during the pandemic, wandering aimlessly without a clear goal and unable to, quote unquote, fix it with her usual strategies and frameworks, she quickly spiraled down into the dark holes of doubt, insecurity and ultimately a deep depression. Now identity can be a double edged sword, especially when your livelihood is creative work. No doubt like me at one point or another, you've probably said what I do isn't just a job, it is who I am. And yes, your identity can help guide and motivate you to achieve the success you've always dreamed of. But it can also be incredibly dangerous when you completely define yourself by what you do, especially during unemployment, and especially during pandemics. It wasn't until Erica learned to let go of all of her long held identities and listen to something deeper that she could lift herself out of the darkness except help and become herself again. This conversation dares you and me to test your beliefs about who you are and what you do beyond your job. Erica challenges me on my own beliefs about what I believe the success path is for creative professionals, and she questions whether it can truly be distilled into simple action steps, and most importantly, Erica and I hope to normalize the discussion of mental health and depression and remind anybody who is struggling with their own issues to know that you are absolutely not alone, and there are resources to support you. Alright, without further ado, my conversation with Hollywood Success Coach Erica Wernick. To access the shownotes for this episode with all the bonus links and resources discussed today, as well as to subscribe, leave a review and more simply visit zackarnold.com/episode178. I am here today with Erica Wernick, who is Hollywood's Success Coach, she is an author, a coach, a speaker and a producer who's focused on helping people achieve their biggest dreams. And before I even allow yourself to say hello, I'm going to dig right into a really important question that I think is gonna go right to the heart of our conversation in 30 seconds. Why is it in your introduction you don't say, "And graphic designer on films and TV shows, such as This is Us, Glee and more." Why is that not in your intro?

Erica Wernick: Because that's not part of my identity anymore. And actually, like, I don't necessarily think any of my career is part of my identity, I think my identity is, is more related to my purpose. And I want to help people. I think, you know, I'm proud of the graphic work that I have done. But what to me, what's more important is what I got out of that process of pursuing a dream in Hollywood, and that and what I take from that is how I help others, you know, achieve their dreams, because I work with actors, writers, directors, you know, I work with all different kinds of artists. So yeah, so for me personally, I mean, I still design stuff all the time for myself and for friends. And like you said, This Is Us, I just finished this as us. But it's not my, my focus anymore in my life. Like it doesn't feel like that's the thing that I want to lead with.

Zack Arnold: I love that you say that your identity is your purpose, with all the things that you're doing in the world and in the industry. And that I'm doing in the industry, even though the alliteration doesn't quite work. Definitely sister from another mother, brother from another mother sounds so much better. But sister from another mother and I remember the first time I don't remember how I had discovered you whether it's through a search or a Facebook post, or whatever, I'm like, Oh my God, there's actually somebody else that successfully doing what I want to do. I didn't know this was a thing, right? And that you don't don't even know this, but me seeing the work that you were doing a firm to me that maybe this is a path that I want to pursue as well, because there's a whole bunch of people that coach or that speak, but there are very few that actually work in the industry, doing a craft that are also successfully working with others, I can think of three people, I'm one of them, that are actually working in the industry and coaching at the same time, you're a second one. So it's very, very difficult to do and you're doing it successfully. And very much understand this idea of associating with your your identity with your purpose. So what we're going to talk about today is how dangerous it can be to assign your identity to what it is that you do for a living and the holes that that can take you down and more. We're gonna put a pin in that for a second. Because I'm talking to you like you and I've talked many times before, which we have and I will send people to your podcast because you and I have talked a couple of times before but I want them to get a little bit of a sense of your story first sense of where it is that you initially came from how you came to the big, fancy, magical land of Hollywood, and how you were able to first achieve your dreams and help others achieve their dreams afterwards. So let's just kind of start with the brief version of the Erica origin story.

Erica Wernick: You know, it's it's funny, because I always struggle with this part. I'm like, why? Nobody wants to hear about me. Like,

Zack Arnold: that sounds like a limiting belief. We might get to those later, by the way,

Erica Wernick: no, 100% is and it's, it's something that I'm working on. Because when I listen to other podcasts, and you hear other guests, you know, explained, you know, how they got to where they are a little bit about the background, it's interesting, and I want to hear it. And so 100% is a limiting belief that I'm working on that, you know, when I was writing my books, it was the same thing, like, a friend of mine, who's really good writer was editing my book, and she was like, I'd love to hear more about you here. What's the story for you? I'm like, you, you want to hear more about me? Why should I just get to the teaching points, who gives a crap about me? All that to say, thank you for asking. I grew up acting and singing. So I was very involved in the theater community through middle school, high school, college, etc. And it wasn't until I started designing the programs and the flyers for the shows that I was in that I got interested in graphic design. But when I was graduating, you know, high school and thinking about what I wanted to do, and then graduating college and thinking about, you know, what does my career look like? I still felt this pull to entertainment. And I think I was always more fascinated by Hollywood than by Broadway. I had done a summer high school program at UCLA, and the middle of my high school years, and just fell in love with Los Angeles. I mean, whatever. If you don't live here, maybe you'll get this. Whatever we see about Los Angeles, you know, on TV shows and movies and in media, the glamorization of Los Angeles. That was what I believed. You know, that was, that was me to a core and I was always just enamored with LA and Hollywood. So when I learned that you can design graphics for television and film, I was like, yes. Sign me up. I want to do that. And it was actually kind of a funny story. How I discovered this because most people have no idea. What a graphic designer for TV and film does. I feel like on my Facebook posts, you were even, maybe, I mean, you probably knew what we did, but maybe not to the extent

Zack Arnold: I knew what you did. I didn't realize how much of your work never got seen by an audience, right? Because there were and you could talk more about this than I can. But having seen 1000s of hours of raw dailies, I see a lot of the pieces and it's probably my fault, actually, that some amazing artwork that's on the wall, and the wide shot never gets to us, because I'm like, I don't need a wide shot for this scene. Right? It's all about the characters. But you know, whether it's a cereal box or a diploma on the wall, or a fake magazine, or whatever, like, somebody's gonna make that stuff, right.

Erica Wernick: Yes. And actually, I will say this is us in particular, we called the talking heads show, you know, they don't really show establishing shots, wide shots of sets very often on this is us a lot of close it close ups of the actors, a wonderful show, I'm not going to you know, take any one thing away. But of course, the art department is like, Man, I wish they would show some sets once in a while because we build such beautiful sets. So I will say like on other TV shows that I've worked on my work has a better opportunity of being seen. And look the artwork on the wall, the poem in the wall, it's it's not as important as obviously the story. That's why I get excited when I get to design props. Because it's usually scripted. You know, so I got to design some stuff like for the next episode. That's airing next week that was scripted, and if it's scripted, there's a good chance that it's going to be on camera, but I was you know, back at home. I'm from Philly. 3000 miles away, watching a very classic movie 13 Going on 30

Zack Arnold: Oh, yeah, that says right up there with Citizen Kane. Right.

Erica Wernick: Right up there with Citizen Kane. I did not like Citizen Kane.

Zack Arnold: But 13 Going on 30. That's a different story.

Erica Wernick: I love that movie. Anyway, so Jennifer Garner's character was eating candy called Razzles. And I was like, ah, a graphic designer had to design that candy box. And I didn't realize that Razzles is a real candy. But what I thought about, you know, what a graphic designer would do. It was correct. You know if it was a fake candy, which happens more often in television, because TV has more, you know, rules about brands being seen. That's exactly what graphic designers do. So When I learned that I moved to LA, I had no contacts. I knew zero people in the industry, I knew three people in LA, and none of them well. So it was pretty terrifying to move out here. And I booked my first TV show two weeks after moving, because I spent many months cold emailing before I moved. And I started making, you know, very few connections, but strong ones through cold email and cold messaging. And that led to me booking my first TV show. And, you know, it was a dream come true to be, you know, working on it. I mean, look, the show that I worked on was canceled real fast. But, you know, it was Eric McCormack was the star and Tom Cavanaugh, Monica Potter. And it was just a really cool, validating experience of like, Yes, this is what I want to do with my life. I've been really fortunate I've worked on over 30 television shows at this point, there have been plenty of time periods where I was not working. And it was really challenging to find the next job. So I don't want to gloss over that. But as I was working on all these TV shows, and living out my dream, and you know, working at Warner Brothers and Paramount and, you know, getting all these opportunities, I started to notice people around me struggling in their careers, whether it was an actor or writer, you know, people in other facets of Hollywood. And I could pretty quickly point out why they were struggling like, Oh, if you just changed X, Y, Z, you know, I think that you would be much further along. And of course, X, Y and Z was was mostly about mindset, which then of course, connects to action, the actions they were taking, you know, were up actions that somebody who didn't believe in themselves 100% would take. And so, one day, I was working on a TV show at Warner Brothers. I was working in a bungalow that was right, outside of the famous gazebo and famous if you watch Gilmore Girls,

Zack Arnold: I was gonna say like, obviously, it's like the the holy grail if you're a Gilmore Girls fan for which my wife is a fanatic.

Erica Wernick: Oh, I believe me it was also in her to Dixie, I believe it was also that whole backlight was also in Pretty Little Liars, which I never watched. But I know that it was there. It was just a really cool opportunity. I was working on a TV show sitting in that bungalow. And a lot of times I'll get downtime in between graphics. So I had designed some graphics, and I was waiting for my boss so that I could show her and get her approval and see what she thought. And there was already a line of people that were waiting to talk to her. So I'm like, Alright, I have to wait until she's finished with these other meetings. In my downtime, I will watch YouTube, because that's what so many of us do during our downtime. And I came across a video that was a Super Soul Sunday video, Oprah was interviewing Jack Canfield. And Jack Canfield, if you don't know, he is the CO creator of Chicken Soup for the Soul. He's also you know, now a coach. And his self help book was the very first self help book I ever read. And I read it when I moved to LA and I really credit a lot of my success to what I learned in that book. And so very exciting. You know, to see Jack being interviewed by Oprah was really engrossed in the video and a couple minutes into the video. I just had this overwhelming moment takeover, I could feel my eyes starting to tear up. I you know, I was starting to cry. And I just, I had this internal voice say to me, Erica, what are you doing? You're supposed to be helping people. And it was just a really profound moment in my life where I just felt like I I've been designing graphics for so long and it's been so great, but I do want to help others achieve their dreams as well. And so, shortly after that, I started my coaching business. And that is kind of the shorter version of how I how I ended up where I am now but uh, you know, I really am. I would say obsessed. You know, I really truly feel it's my purpose. Just how can I help as many people as possible achieve their biggest dreams no matter what they are?

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I share that same obsession, obviously. And I could get all the awards and accolades in the world, but what I love the reason I wake up is I've got a Slack channel with my coaching community. It's called the wins channel. And people put their wins, whether they get huge career changing job opportunity, and I don't know what's in the water, but three people this week alone in my community have landed gigantic career changing opportunities. And sometimes it's just, hey, I took a walk this afternoon when right so the winds are all varied. But when people asked me, Why do I do what I do, I haven't talked about this on a podcast where I was a guest recently, I said, it's my wins channel. I'm obsessed with helping other people succeed. Because when they succeed, I get to succeed. And that's so much more fun than working in the small dark room with the ratalie air conditioner, with no windows with an amazing snack wall of garbage that makes you want to take a nap all day long. And yeah, I get a credit on a TV show and a paycheck. But kind of what's the point? Right. And I think that what I realized, and this was a really difficult realization for me, and was a huge hit to my identity, which is going to help us kind of transition more to what you have gone through recently. And I had this realization six or seven years ago, I was working on Empire at the time. And then I was also thinking about this, I think, might even be when I was working on Colbert, I actually had this conversation with the showrunners of Cobra Kai. And I said, here's the reality. Anybody can sit in my chair, and do this job, and you're still going to have a TV show, it's still going to be your show. And yes, am I better than some people are doing this? Sure. Am I able to intuit what you want and make better choices? Whether it's music or montages? Yeah, I'm good at what I do. But if I disappear, you're gonna find somebody else to sit in this chair, and the work will get done. Which means that me being here had little to no impact. However, the work that I'm doing with the website with the podcast and the coaching program, if that goes away, things change, something about the world changes. And I'm not saying that the entire world changes. But there's an impact that that personal investment that you have in other people, changes other people's lives. And I said, I no longer want to steal from that just so I can continue earning more credits and getting more things on IMDb Pro, and maybe getting awards, because you can replace me there, everything's gonna be the same. I stopped doing this things change. And it sounds like you had a very, very similar realization.

Erica Wernick: Yes, exactly. I mean, it's the same thing for graphics, you know, if I left, they'll just replace me with another graphic designer. I mean, that's what I did on this is us, the graphic designer had to leave. So I finished the show. And it's interesting, you know, with what you what you talk about how, you know, if you left your business, you know, this, the coaching piece, that it really would make a big impact. And what I've learned is, it's not even just the impact with the people that we're coaching or working with, it's then all their people around them in their lives. Because when somebody goes after their dream in a big way, they don't even have to achieve it, just the act of pursuing it in a really big way, inspires people all around them. And I really do believe that it creates, you know, a lot of a lot more joy and light into the world. And, you know, a lot of times, with my acting clients, we talk about number one on the call sheet, and how to set the tone, you know, so it's like, so much of the work that we're doing well, you know, is reverberate the right word, I can't even think of words today, you know, it will really trickle out through so many other people, you know, it's not even just a one to one impact, it can impact 1000s of people beyond us.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I completely agree with all that. And I think what you're looking for is the ripple effect reverberate and trickle down. Both acceptable, but I think you're looking for the ripple effect. So all three very much acceptable and understand all of those. But here's the danger in all of this. For me, and I know that you may have gone through something. Similarly, when I decided that I wanted to be a coach and help people, boy was that hard for my identity as an editor to accept. Because that's not just what I do. That's who I am. I'm an editor. I've been an editor since I was literally nine years old. And I'm going to win the Oscar for myself because that's what I want. And my mom literally bought me a giant chocolate Easter Bunny, and said, This is your Oscar until you can replace it with a reel. I still have it somewhere in a box. And I feel bad because I'm probably never going to replace it because I just don't care anymore. And that's not a goal of mine. But I went through a transitional process for a years where I couldn't accept the fact that I was no longer an editor working towards an Oscar. So for you, when you were deciding that you no longer are a graphic designer and this was my calling and this was my purpose. Did you to go through a sort of crisis making this transition? No. Oh, good for you. Well, then that's going to be a short conversation.

Erica Wernick: It was just a very different experience. For me. I think that the alignment that I felt with helping other people felt like my purpose all along felt like my identity all along. You know, when I moved to LA like I said, I read Jack Canfield book. And a couple years after that, I started attending Marketing Boot Camps for coaches and authors. When I was a graphic designer for television, I wasn't an author, I wasn't a coach, I don't know why I went, I just thought they sounded cool. I'm like, that sounds really interesting. I want to go and I went to them for years. So I think that it was building for so many years. That for me, it wasn't the identity crisis with that piece. But it was terrifying. You know, when I, you know, I was working on superstore when I decided to leave a show in the middle of the show and go full time with my business. And that decision was terrifying and took time. And I had a lot of fear and doubts around that. And so that part was terrifying. But, um, but no, I never. I think also because I grew up acting and singing in, like, I never had the Oscar award or like, or like, I never like thought, oh, I want to win awards for design or anything like that. If anything, I thought I want to impress my design teachers from school. I want them to think that I'm doing a good job, which is, you know, a whole other stuff that I've been working on.

Zack Arnold: But what you write about, by the way, and it's a very engaging story.

Erica Wernick: Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's, it is fascinating to me that I've graduated 14 years ago, and I'm still like, do my professors think I'm doing a good job? I still want to impress them. Yeah, a lot of a lot of stuff to work through. But yeah, so it was, it was a different experience for me. But I will say the identity piece comes up in other ways. And it's something like I'm I'm very aware of, and I think that when the pandemic hit, and especially in the beginning, when we were quarantined, and we couldn't leave our homes. It became very aware if you attach your identity to your job, right? Or like to me like how much money you make, because those things were taken away from us. And suddenly, it was like, Oh, who am I without these things? So I understand it very, very well, I just personally with with design, I didn't have that.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, that's all great. I'm glad you didn't have to go through any of that, whatever.

Erica Wernick: I struggle with a million other things. So don't you

Zack Arnold: Which we're going to get to by the way, I keep keep plugging the you know, the the big thing we're moving towards, but I think what's really important to highlight here, and this is actually something you specialize in with your clients, you don't just coach and say, well do this and your action steps and frameworks. And by the way, you have all of those things. But I think an area where you really specialize is really being able to trust your own intuition. And it sounds to me, like you're much more aware of your inner feelings than I might have been where you were able to use your intuition and say, You know what, I don't need to design. I'm here to help people, it took me a lot longer to figure that out. But let's talk about how important intuition is, in this process of deciding what does our path look like? Because you really focus on both the mindset side and the emotional side, not just here are the action steps to break into Hollywood. So how important is intuition? And how is it that you are able to trust it? And how do you teach other people to be able to trust theirs

Erica Wernick: Yeah, you know, I was talking to one of the casting people, this is us the other day, about what I do. And he was like, Oh, my God, like everybody needs that. Because this business is 90%. mindset. I mean, if you're pursuing a quote unquote, big dream in Hollywood, it's not just about the actions you take. And you'll see that and like, I think actors more than anyone understand this, I would say, maybe directors to a little bit, maybe writers, you know, because there's so much waiting. There's so many other pieces to it, that you have to be able to get a handle on your thoughts and your beliefs and what you tell yourself about that time. So to me is really important. And actually my new book that I just finished you are the magic is about intuition. And I think it's particularly important in this industry, because I think in this industry, we are conditioned to believe that our voice is not important. We are conditioned to follow a set of rules. There is a lot of ego in this industry. You know, in all facets in every department, there's a lot of ego. And so what that does is that creates like my voice and what you should do is the most important and so over time, our own intuition, our own voice gets quieted, and we forget how to tap into that. And I think that I was always tapping into mine, but I wasn't as aware of it. it, and it was always scary, you know, like, there have been times where I quit. I quit a TV show before, not just superstore to do my business full time, but like I quit a show that I was really unhappy on. And that is terrifying. You know, most people would say, like, but you don't have another show lined up, what are you doing, but I was so unhappy. And my intuition was like, You need to get out. I think it's so important to be able to listen to your own voice and to advocate for yourself and to, you know, feel like your ideas, and, and your instincts are worthy of being heard, whether it's by you or by anyone else. And a lot of what I talk about my new book with intuition, is, you know, look, in Hollywood, and in so many other places, there's no one path. You know, it's not like if you were going to go work in a counting, and you were like, Okay, I go to accounting school, you know, maybe I become a CPA, and then I, and then I send a resume into a company, and then I interview and then I get a job, you know, that is not Hollywood. Unfortunately, there's no clear cut one path. And so

Zack Arnold: Can I actually interrupt you, yes. Because I completely and totally disagree with that. Oh, and I'm gonna tell you why. And I think you might like this. Okay, I think there is a path that everybody follows. Everybody has a different story. So I'm going to workshop this with you right now is a fellow coach, and I want to see if you agree or disagree with this, and then we'll we'll go right back to what you said. But I think this is really important for people that are listening. I spent a decade breaking down everybody's stories. That's essentially what I do with the podcast, tell me your success story. Everybody's as unique, the exact same steps, exact same path, but how they do it, and what it looks like on the surface is different. So imagine, instead of talking to filmmakers, you're talking to a room of doctors? Can you imagine going up to each doctor individually and saying, oh my god, it's amazing. You're a doctor? How did you become a doctor? Well, I went to undergraduate, majoring in pre med and then I went to medical school. And then I got a fellowship or an internship. And then after I went through X number of years, I became a doctor. That's amazing. Hey, you, how did you become a doctor? Same story over and over and over also the same path, but it's pretty much the same story. Little bit of nuance, and how they how long might have taken or whatever practices they tried, or whatever. But essentially, nobody says, Oh, my god, that's amazing. How did you become a doctor? Right? You ask somebody, oh, my God, how did you become a successful actor or graphic designer or film editor, etc, etc, exact same path, all different stories, your story different than mine, although I have to say, yours is about the closest to my story I've ever heard, because you got your first job less than two weeks after graduation, which never happens. I got mine a week after graduation. But it's the same general idea of spending months and months, doing the outreach beforehand, planting the seeds, building the relationship so you can land move into your job, right. But what I've been saying, on my podcast, and everything I write about is essentially it's the same path. Number one, this is something you talk about a lot, you have to be very clear on what is the ladder that you want to climb. And I'm sure you talked to this about this with your actors, writers, directors, this is just I want to act as What do you want to do, if you want to work in commercials versus television versus features, different industries. So you choose the very specific ladder, then you have to work at and become awesome at your craft. And then people need to know that you're awesome at your craft, you do do those three things, you're going to be successful. I think it's that simple. Discuss,

Erica Wernick: I really enjoy the mansplaining of interrupting me to tell me I'm wrong. And let me immediately hear your version of what it is. I totally disagree. I think that's some

Zack Arnold: Okay, let's let's debate.

Erica Wernick: I mean, it's not a debate to me, I just totally disagree. And look, I've also worked with many different types of artists, you know, look a graphic designer, sure. There were probably going to be an art PA and then they're going to get into the Union. And then they're going to, you know, try to get on shows as a designer. Sure. But like a writer, there's like not seven or nine different ways in which you could become a successful writer, right. So you could be you could start as a writer's PA, or a writer's assistant in a writers room, you could sit in your own apartment and never leave it and get a manager who shops your scripts around and then you sell a script, you could get staffed on on a show as a writer, you could work as an assistant to a producer who gets their own which I've had a friend who did this who a producer who had an overall deal with a studio. And so then that producer works on their own shows until the studio picks up one of them. And then when they pick up one of them they get to write and write so to me like it's, you know, sure you want to say oh, it's study your craft and then have somebody notice your craft like that, to me that's like minimizing it to something incredibly oversimplified. And I don't think Hollywood works that way. Like, I don't even think it's about that. Because I always tell my clients, like, How many times have you watched a TV show and you were like, Oh, that acting was bad. Or oh, that writing was terrible. So like, because I always say the law of attraction doesn't give it about your talent. So to me, it's not about that, to me, it's not about honing your I mean, not that honing your craft isn't important. But I think there are so many doors, there are so many paths in. And I believe that your intuition will guide you to your specific one. So what you might call a story, you know, is what I'm calling, you know, a path. You know, there are actors who, you know, will start on the indie route, and do lots of non union stuff. And then finally, get an agent and a manager, and then work their way up to a co star and get their first first co star. And then maybe they do five co stars, and then maybe they finally get a guest star. And then maybe they finally get a recurring. And then maybe years down the line, they book a series regular. There could also be another path where somebody does, for example, my cousin, his first feature film, was with Sundance Labs, he won Sundance, and his movie was then nominated for Best Picture for an Oscar, his first feature. So you know, and like, same thing with actors, you know, there are actors, I always talk about Gilmore Girls like Alexis Bloodsail, had never acted before. And she booked her first show was a series regular. So in that sense to me, like there are so many different paths in this industry, so many ways in and not even just so many ways in but then so many ways, in which you, you know, grow your career, you know, somebody like Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard, you know, they've started businesses, you know, which is really super cool, you know, that they have a line of clothes, baby products, you know, at Walmart, you know, and they've done commercials and, and acting, and then Christian obviously has done singing and, and then they've hosted a reality show a game show or something, you know, like, so their path looks so different than let's say, an actor who is on Grey's Anatomy, and stays on it for 15 years. Right. So I do think that pads and creative fields just can look so different. And I think the way in which we find our path that is best for us is by listening to our intuition and letting it guide us, I really, truly believe that our intuition will show us every step that we need to take, like you're on a scavenger hunt, and you're, and you receive the next clue. And you receive the next clue, and you receive the next clue. And your intuition leads you to each one. You know, like, even me breaking in, you know, to Hollywood working my first show two weeks after moving to LA, the person that decided to help me like the timing of it was part of my path, because I developed an eye disease in my left eye a week before I was supposed to move to LA. And it was bad, really bad. And our very good family friend is an eye doctor. And so, you know, he was telling us like I had to take steroid pills, in addition to drops, I still take drops to this day. And, you know, they were like, maybe you should hold your move off a month or so let's get this under control. And something in my intuition said no, you have to go now, I will get an eye doctor in Los Angeles. And so my eye doctor looked up people I got a specialist at UCLA, it was a horrible, terrible, you know, terrifying time moving to a new city where I knew nobody didn't have a place to live, staying on a couch of someone's palce someone's apartment and taking massive steroid pills that messes with your emotions. And you know, just everything is such a big pack impact on your life. But the person who answered my cold message, who was willing to help me, was offered a show that he could not take. And so he recommended me in his place. And if I did not move that week, and I moved a month later, that position would have already been filled and who knows when I would have booked something. So to me, that's what like, you know, our intuition can play such a big key, you know, part in our path if we're, you know, willing and open to listening to it.

Zack Arnold: I knew if anybody was going to vigorously debate and disagree with me, it was going to be you, which is why I wanted to stop to have that conversation. Because this is something that you feel very passionate about and talk about all the time and I could not let that go. So I apologize if it came off as mansplaining but I knew that you were going to debate me and I was going to get you all riled up and get an amazing response and explanation. So I hope that it was out that was clear. Not only did it help, I thought it was absolutely brilliant, and I was riveted by all of it. And I'm hoping that it didn't come off the way. But that was kind of the point is I really wanted to get you riled up and energetic because I know I've seen you, you're so good at social media, by the way, and I see this in you all the time. It's not just, here's the information. And this is a business and I'm a coach, it is so clear that you care about this, and you want to help others. And I see your stories almost every day and like you just have this fire inside. I just, I needed to throw just a tiny bit of lighter fluid on it. So now we've got you all right. So good. All right, good. So now I'm super excited to keep talking about this. Okay, so if the paths are so crazily different, how do you help people use their intuition to figure out what path is the best fit for them?

Erica Wernick: So one of the things and I do this in my first book, too. So we start with what you're talking about the ladder, and we reverse engineer the ladder, right? So if you want to be like I said, the series regular, let's say, you want to win an Oscar, that's your top goal, we work backwards, and we come up with the general steps, you know, like, well, you know, in order to win an Oscar, I have to work on a film that's Oscar worthy, okay, I got to work on a film. In order for that to happen, I've got to book that role. In order for that to happen, I need my agent to get me the audition, or I need to be seen somewhere else. Right. So we go down the standard sort of steps. And then I tell my clients that this is like a base foundation of a path. You can skip levels, you can shoot out to the sides, it can look so different. How will you get from one step to another is going to be led by your intuition you will be led, you know where where to go. So, you know, look, it's not like we don't talk about strategy, you know, all the time, when I work with my clients, we'll talk about, you know, strategy, and I'll look at their emails and cold emails, and, and, and all that kind of stuff. But I think what's more important, and I can see it because I have coached so many actors, and they've all had very different paths, and you know, careers and stories. What I feel like, I'm here to do, one of I think my superpowers is to help people believe in themselves in a way that they've maybe haven't believed in themselves before. And once you can get to that place, then it becomes much easier to notice the intuitive hits that come to you and get the confidence and courage to follow them. So, you know, I really, you know, like, for example, one of my clients who has become a great friend, she is from Oman, and she has lived all over the world. She's fluent in like three or four different languages. I mean, she is, she's the most incredible, you know, backstory is so interesting. And she was in New York, and then she moved to LA, she booked her first TV show and actress this year, which is really exciting. And it was recurring, her very first TV show was recurring. five episodes, tomorrow, or this weekend, I'm going to visit her to say goodbye because she's moving to France for several months. And I would we would talk about this, you know, the would an acting coach or an acting teacher or someone in the industry might tell someone like her is you need to be here, what are you doing, you can't leave la you need if you want to be acting, you need to be in LA. And there are some agents that have a rule I no particular agent because my client was with that agent who said you can't leave. Like, especially during episodic or you know, the highlights of the season. And I told her I'm like, this is your path, like France lights you up and makes you so happy. It's part of like your souls decision of where it wants to be. You need to go there and see where it leads you go get you know, we talked about like, go get an agent in France, in Europe, you know, so her path is going to look different because she's what I'm allowing her so you know, helping her feel the permission to pursue her career in a way that feels good to her that might completely go against the typical type of advice, you know, career advice for an actor.

Zack Arnold: What's so important about what you just said? That I want everybody to understand and internalize that I don't know if I've ever talked to anybody that made this this clear and apparent, is that the number one skill you need to have is not just a coach, but a good coach is your ability to help other people believe in themselves. But it's not about the frameworks. It's not about the steps, it's not about the online courses, you can have all the information, if people don't believe that they can achieve their goals, all of it's useless. The other component of that that's so important, if you're not interested in being a coach, which I'm guessing 99% of our audience is not. If you are looking for one, you need to find a coach that helps you believe in yourself. Because if you don't, somebody's just regurgitating all the same frameworks and steps of all the other influencers and personal developers and all that's great, right? Like,

Erica Wernick: I don't, I don't know, I'll go ahead and sample of this, that happened to me. Because I'm not coaching anymore. I have a small membership thing. But you know, as you said, in my, my bio, I'm writing books, and I'm producing because I want to help people in a bigger way, I want to reach more people. And I had a coach who I was working with couple years ago, and I was start my intuition was starting to say, I don't want to coach anymore. You know, I wanted to do something connected with Hollywood, but helping people through Hollywood in a bigger way. And I didn't know yet that that was through television that I wanted to produce television and write books. But I just had this intuitive hit of like, I don't want to be coaching anymore. And my coach, and she was a great coach and all and a lot of other ways. I don't want to tear her down. But she kept telling me, oh, no, you probably just don't love your clients enough. If you find clients that you love, if you want more, that's what you should be focusing on. So she continued to give me advice based on her bubble of the coaching industry, and what that looks like, instead of letting me explore what my intuition, my intuition was telling me, you know, and essentially, totally, my intuition was wrong. And I've had coaches tell me that before that my intuition is wrong. I had someone say that phrase, to me, your intuition is wrong. Anyway, I just wanted to share that because Because yes, like, I think it's so important for if you're going to be working with someone to find someone that is just gonna, it's gonna hold the space for you to explore whatever it is that you need to explore, and to and to help you figure that out. And to help you feel confident, you know, have the courage to do that.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I mean, I've never had a student at the end of 12 weeks, say, you blew my mind with how you organized your Trello lists and cards can't thank you enough. And by the way, they enjoy my Trello strategies, or I bought Busycal because of you, right? With the message you get over and over. And I'm sure you get the same as can't thank you enough. I actually believe this is possible. Yes. Right. And if that's the impact you can have, and that's it, that can be life changing for somebody. And going back to this coach that you mentioned, there's this word that I hear that I hate so much, that I think should frankly be called the disease. pragmatism. Be pragmatic, choose the safer route, choose the comfortable route, right? Like, oh, what's the matter with you? Oh, I came down with a horrible case of pragmatism, right? Just keeping me from all of my dreams and my goals. And choosing the discomfort over the comfort is usually what's going to lead to the growth and success. Like there's a saying I didn't come up with it. It's been popularized recently, I've seen it all over the internet. But essentially, it's that if you make easy choices, your life is going to be hard. If you make hard choices, your life is going to become much easier. And you being pragmatic and choosing to continue coaching and having clients that you like better, that is the pragmatic, and that is the safe choice. But your intuition does not often align with that. So what I'm really interested in now, which is really kind of what we've been teasing the whole time, what happened when you decided that you didn't want to coach anymore, and all of a sudden, all of these goals and systems and frameworks weren't really getting you where you want it to get. Talk me through that phase.

Erica Wernick: Well, I love that we're like teasing my depression. Like, you know, coming up next week, depression. No, I, you know, it's really interesting that you phrase it that way, because that is one of the things that triggered my depression. Because I don't know if you're like this, I feel like you might be because we're similar. I have always been a goal oriented person. I'm, you know, a high achiever. I'm always taking action. I mean, I still have doubts, and I'm scared sometimes, but I'm always working towards something specific. And when I started to realize I didn't want to coach anymore. What I wanted to do instead hadn't come to me yet. And this is actually where my new book came from. Because when you don't know what you're working towards, but you just, you know, you're ready to let go of something but you have no idea what you're going to move towards instead. That is where I had an identity crisis. When you talk to about your identity, you know, that was extremely hard for me. Because my whole life, I'm the person that writes the goals down and works towards something super specific and is very ambitious. And to not know what my next thing was, was that just like, you know, I say the bucket like ripped me to shreds, because that was my identity. And if I'm not that goal person, like, how do I handle my life right now? How do I figure out my next thing? And so I would try to figure out my next thing strategically, you know, like, I would take courses, and I would, you know, read books, and I would, you know, listen to podcasts, talk to coaches, everything I did was like, How can I strategically figure out what my next step is? And it wasn't until I was feeling really stuck. There was a couple years ago, I was feeling really stuck. And a friend of mine, invited me to volunteer at Gabi Bernstein's book launch event. And it was in a theater, and she was speaking and, you know, selling books. And I volunteered and helped set up the stage with my friend. And when I was standing on that stage, setting it up before everybody came in, I had this I don't even know how to explain it. I just had this like wave of intuition and say, I want this. And I'm like, What I What do you mean, I want this, I don't know what that is like. And, you know, as I watched her, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I want to write books and help people and talk to them like this. And, you know, and so then it became like, Oh, my, one of my next things is writing a book. So that answer didn't come to me through strategy, though, you know, I talk about how, like, it wasn't something that I got from a pro and con list. You know, it really felt like something that I received. And actually, I think that, you know, a lot of creative people might agree that how you receive your dream is similar, you know, saying you want to be an Oscar winning editor in Hollywood, is not going to come from a pro con list, you know, or, or, like, what's the, as you say, the pragmatic, you know, decision here, you know, our dreams come from a deeper place. So then, so then I wrote my first book. And that was great. But still wasn't sure I still like the TV stuff, the TV show thing wasn't there yet. And then also, the pandemic hit. And that became really challenging because it changed our lives in so many ways. If we didn't lose our life, if we if we were fortunate enough to not lose our live life. And I felt so lost. I, I felt, like I said, an identity crisis. Who am I? What am I doing with my life, I still want to help people achieve their dreams. I just don't know. Like, like, I just want to do it through a different means. But I don't know what that looks like. And it was yours, like, you know, the past couple of years. And so, last year, I wrote another book. I didn't realize it. But I was depressed the entire time writing that book.

Zack Arnold: This was when you were writing meant for this show. I know this is the you are the magic. Yes. My your there's your timeline is different than me watching you on Instagram. Talk about it. So I want to make sure I'm understanding the right books. Okay. Got it.

Erica Wernick: Yeah, I mean, and I had, I've experienced depression many times in my life, the first time my first year in LA, but usually like one or two times a year, I experienced depression. And so the pandemic coupled with me feeling super lost in my life. It's like the two of those things collided and really triggered my depression. And I somehow wrote a book through it. And when I finished that book, I was like, I need to read this and make sure it's okay. Because I think I was really depressed when I wrote this. It just it just like, you know, after even I finished that book, and I still didn't know what to do, it was just really, really dark. And my depression was probably the worst I had ever experienced in my life. It was the first time that I truly understood when people say it's something chemical in your brain. Because I felt like a different person and the things that I normally would do to help me feel good, we're not working. And it was sort of like this thing I couldn't control. It's kind of like this dark cloud was following me everywhere. And I did all the healthy things, nor I would meditate, I would exercise I would be outside in the sun, I would go down to the ocean. You know, I would try to do all these things to fill myself up and make myself feel better and nothing worked like that dark cloud was still there. And I remember one time I took myself out to dinner in the Palisades at my favorite place, because that's usually one thing I do to make myself feel good. And I went by myself and I was sitting at the restaurant, and I wanted to cry the entire meal. I didn't because I was in public. But that is how I was feeling in the moment. And it just felt like, oh my gosh, like, I can't control this. This is something that's taken over my brain, it might have been triggered by real life events. But something is changing in the chemistry of my brain. And then I don't know you, I'm still talking about this. Do you want me to keep going?

Zack Arnold: I haven't interrupted you. Yeah, I know. I'm like, am I talking too much about this? No, this is absolutely wonderful. Keep going, I have nothing to add. By the way, I am now going to interrupt you. It's okay to talk about yourself. And this is amazing. And this is really helpful for other people. Sometimes, talking about your own struggles is what help other people believe in themselves and retrieve there. So as you already know, but when it comes to yourself, it's hard to listen to that and believe, intellectually, you know that I'm not telling you something you don't know. But emotionally, as you said at the beginning, this is something you struggle with, think of this as your practice, because what you're doing is phenomenal. Keep going.

Erica Wernick: Okay, thank you. I really appreciate that. It is like I hear myself talking. And I'm like, Erica, babies just shut up.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, nobody cares. Why does anybody want to hear my stuff? This is just stupid, right? So I assure you, it's the polar opposite.

Erica Wernick: I started to get to a point where I was basically on the couch or my bed the whole time. I stopped working. And I forgot when I started to feel better. And I sat at my computer and worked for a day. I forgot that that's like what my normal life used to be like, because when I was depressed, I did not work at all. So that impacted so many aspects of my life. I mean, I was really broke. I mean, fortunately, I had some savings. And I survived. And my parents helped me out a little bit. But I was, you know, on the couch, most of the times I some I'm really close with my parents, and sometimes I just want to answer their calls. I didn't even I couldn't talk to anyone, I just felt so depressed that I didn't want to answer the phone, I didn't want to answer a text, I would sit on the couch. And I think because of the Apple Watch, I'm like super aware, like I got no steps in, you know, like, I was not moving my body, let alone exercising. So every now and then I would get enough energy to go outside and walk. And sometimes I would drive to other neighborhoods that I like on the on the west side, I want to be near the ocean and I would walk there, but was in such a dark space that it just impacted all these other areas of my life. Like I said, like I wasn't even moving my body. And then on top of that, I would order takeout a lot. Like I can look back at my GrubHub history, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, like back when I was super depressed, I was ordering takeout, like eight or 10 times a month. Whereas now I do it like three or four. So it had more than doubled. So I was eating really badly. Not moving my body. And then I do remember for me. And it's easier to see this looking back now that I am healthy, but I feel like I'm gonna cry. The scariest moment for me and why I really knew it was something chemical in my brain is that I literally did not have hope. And I'm a success coach. I spent my life being positive and helping other people, you know, be positive. And my mom would say, you know, like, things will get better things will look different. And I was like, no, they will not. And I wasn't just arguing with her I my brain I could not see it. I literally could not fathom the concept that I could ever feel differently or that things in my life could ever be different. And to me, that's like the scariest thing of all to lose hope. It may be like when I, you know got better. And maybe you like oh my gosh, I'm really grateful for hope. Like I just have this newfound appreciation for believing that tomorrow could be different from today. And it's so scary to think that I didn't have hope. And so while I was going through this time, I mostly didn't tell anybody. My parents knew. I talked to my parents every day. Like I said, there were some days where I won't even talk to them. It was so lonely. And also I was creating that because I didn't want to tell anybody you know and You know, I'm a big fan of Brene Brown, and she talks a lot about vulnerability. And it would be so vulnerable for me to tell somebody, my darkest thoughts and what I'm experiencing. And I was so afraid that somebody wouldn't be able to hold that space for me. I just was not in a place where I'd be okay, if they couldn't hold that space. And so that really stopped me from telling people. And eventually, I think I told one or two friends. And they were supportive in the moment, but I don't think they knew what to do with it. You know, like I say, like, one of my friends was so supportive in the moment, came over the next day took me out to lunch to everything. And then I never heard from her again for a month. Now, she was working on a show, and I know what it's like to be working on a TV show. You have no life, and it's hard to like, think about anything else. So I don't really fault her. And plus, I never express my needs. You know, I never said this is what I need. But I learned a lot. You know, from that experience that like, oh my gosh, mental health, something like depression

is not too different from a physical illness. And, you know, it's like, if I had cancer, God forbid, if I had cancer, would somebody check on me? Right? Probably right. But it's so different. It's like, if I have depression, like people might just think, Oh, you're like, you know, I think we throw that word around depressed. Without understanding like the clinical, you know, definition behind it.

Zack Arnold: You just need to get some sleep couple, a couple good nights of sleep, relax, read a book, you know, maybe get a massage, things are going to be all better, right? You use cancer, the one that I like to use, and I think cancer is great. I use diabetes. Like going into somebody with diabetes, it's like insulin, really? I mean, can you just get a couple of nights of sleep and you'll be fine. Like you really need the medication. It sounds absurd. Yeah. But it's because we understand that you can get a blood test and a doctor can say you have type two or type one diabetes, and therefore to make sure that your pancreas creates insulin and you don't go into diabetic shock. You need insulin artificially does does make sense. I don't want to die. You start talking about things like mental health. It's very esoteric, because it's very much a gray area. People don't really understand it unless they've been through everything you're saying. We're just like, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah. But if they haven't, they don't really understand it, because it's this invisible thing. Like you can't see I have a gash on my arm. Therefore, I have an infection, therefore, I need antibiotics. Right. So what I find, at least for me, personally, I'm not speaking for your experience. But my experience is that I find it or I used to, I used to find it very hard to share it with anybody because they immediately invalidate it. Like I had somebody very close to me and my family not going to mention who it is. But the first time I went through this, it was exactly what I just told you, dude, you're working hard, get some sleep and you'll be fine. It's all in your head. Yeah, it was all in my head. But there's also a neurochemical, right. So much neuro chemistry was completely imbalanced. And the wall that I came up against next, which I'm curious if you came up against it as well is, who am I, as a person, if I need medication, right, this is something that I actually talked about totally unrelated, but today in two separate coaching sessions, and one person said, Well, if I need medication, that means that I'm no good. They literally said those words. And I came across the exact same challenge of who am I as a person, if I need this? Did you go through something similar?

Erica Wernick: I had an extra layer, which I'm curious if you have felt this. The extra layer was what kind of coach am I?

Zack Arnold: Bingo? Oh, boy. Yes, keep going. But boy, can I relate to that?

Erica Wernick: And that, it makes me sad. But that was the hardest part. Because I knew people in the coaching industry. I don't know if they would have decided then that I wasn't a good coach, or that I'm not doing the work. You know, I'm not doing enough of the internal work. And I should be able to mindset my way out of this, you know,

Zack Arnold: You're just talking the talk, but you don't walk the why, right? You're all full of crap. And you're telling me to do all these things. You don't do them yourself clearly. Because you've now failed. Right? Those are the thoughts that go through my head

Erica Wernick: exactly, that's how I felt I felt I am a failure of a coach and a person who does the internal work. You know, we talked about limiting beliefs like I do deep ass work on my thoughts, you know, and meditation and, you know, I do all those things. I'm therapy like, you know, I do all the things and I you know, my mom really helped me because I felt like a huge failure. And I there was I felt very torn because I felt like I really want to get medication. And I think I'm at the point where it will help me when I really started to notice that the normal healthy things that I would do weren't working. And my mom was, like, amazing and supportive and super encouraging. But it was the coach piece. And I would go into deep dives on social media, and on Instagram and look and there were some famous coaches Mel Robbins. I don't know if you know who Mel Robbins is. Absolutely, yes. You know, there were some famous coaches that were talking about depression and anxiety and medication. And it wasn't until I saw people I admire who are way ahead of me in the success game in terms of coaching or helping people. It wasn't till I saw them, you know, saying it's okay. You know, and it not taking anything away from what they have to offer the world, or how they offer it, that I really truly got the courage. It wasn't until I saw other people I admired talking about it. And that's why it's so important for me to talk about it, because that was the thing that made me feel you know, okay, that gave me the courage to talk to a psychiatrist and get medication. And actually, you know, you mentioned the blood test with diabetes, I had a blood test, and my health went to shit. Like, my numbers were so bad. And I remember when I got my results back, I was like crying for like a day because I was so scared I was going to die or something like I just, I didn't know what the numbers meant. And you know, like, right now, it's been almost six months. I'm taking vitamin D Prescription once a week. Wait, I think I forgot to take it this week terrorize me. Oh, it once a week, I'm doing getting beat well shots every other week at my doctor. I changed my diet because I was eating so poorly. I started counting calories, December 1, because I used to be super into fitness and health. And I would do the macros and I would be at the gym for two hours, it did a health program. And I was like, You know what, I have to make this easy for myself, I'm not going to put any pressure on myself. This is not about macros. This is not about getting fit. This is about getting my numbers back. I'm just going to do something so I won't I won't even open my fitness pal because I thought it was gonna be too triggering, I opened a spreadsheet. I'm like, I'm just going to count calories. That's all I'm going to do right now. And I've been counting I haven't missed a since December 1 Because I made something just super easy that didn't have pressure around it. And I've lost a lot of weight. And I'm actually excited to get my blood test. Again, you know, in another month when it's been six full months and the doctor will see me again. Yeah, like it impacted so many areas of my health and the medicine. You know, when I finally I'm on Wellbutrin, I like to say it out loud, just because, you know, people might wonder among the generic of it. And actually when my doctor gave me choice, she gave me two medicines to like she like you can look into these. Here's some information on them. Let me know which one you feel like interested in which I thought was really cool. And I literally typed Wellbutrin into Twitter. And it was like 247 tweets in the last hour. I was like what a just opened up my eyes so much. And I saw a tweet that made me cry. And it said someone had said,

like 15 years ago, I started on Wellbutrin. And when it started working, I walked outside one day and notice that the sun was shining. And I just like lost it because I was like, Oh my God. That's I didn't even realize that I didn't even notice the sun was shining. You know, it's like the fog. It's like I didn't even notice if it was a beautiful day. And that just got me and so I'm a little bit of a tangent. But anyway, so that really helped. And then because the medicine helped me it took a long time though, while it took the amount of time the doctor told me it would take but you know it took about six weeks until I started feeling better. And then about eight weeks and so I started like feeling like myself, but as I started to feel better, then I could slowly start working back other things into my life to help them by the physical part of my health. You know, get back like I said, counting calories and exercising. I started counting calories December 1. I didn't start exercising regularly until three months ago. So it took me like three months of just just focusing on calories and I couldn't get there yet. So Took me a long time. And then when I started to get back to work, I was like, oh my god, I forgot, I used to sit in front of the computer all day and enjoy it and like, feel excited and want to work on things. And that was mind blowing to me. Because I, it felt like I had been so long since I had done work that I forgot that that was my normal life. So some of those things were, you know, the result of me starting to feel better and, and being on medication,

Zack Arnold: Rewinding back to the beginning of the conversation, and all of your self conscious limiting beliefs of does anybody ever want to hear my story, you sharing this is potentially going to save somebody's life. Because somebody's going to listen to the conversation we just had, and say, Oh, my God, that's me right now. Just like you read the tweet, you're just like, you did the research. Somebody's gonna listen to this and say, Oh, my God, this is me. And I don't have hope. And Erica may have just given me hope. Now, you know why it is this, because I knew how important how vital this conversation was going to be for people listening. So that was why I wanted to have this conversation. And I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the honesty, the candor, the vulnerability, because that vulnerability is where the impact comes from, which is in alignment with your purpose, having a positive impact on people. It's not about the systems or the frameworks, right? I believe that beyond being a great coach, and doing so by allowing people to believe in themselves, I think the other component is vital is empathy. Sympathy is one thing, you can be a very sympathetic coach, but I don't think you can be a truly amazing coach without empathy. And you now have gone through an experience to help you understand what other people are going through. That, to me is tremendously vital to the work that you have already done that you may not be doing anymore, but so tremendously vital to the work that you're going to do next.

Erica Wernick: Thank you. I mean, I hope so I will say that. Well, I actually told my clients before I told the world's well before I posted publicly on Facebook, and I did a live in our Facebook group and I cried and they were incredible. They were so supportive. And I do think that it made our connection even stronger, because you know, I can relate to them if they, you know, feel this way. And when I posted publicly on Facebook, I actually got a lot of private messages from people saying, Oh, I'm on this medication. Oh, I'm on this medication. Here's what I went through. Thank you for sharing. And so like, even if just one person, like hears this and feels less alone, then it's so worth it to me. You know, I listened to a podcast episode. I remember I was taking a walk. And it was Jameela Jamil who I love. She was on Conan O'Brien podcast, and they were talking about depression. And it was like, This is so great. They're talking about depression, I feel less alone. Until they both said something. And I don't remember the exact words, but they said something along the lines of like, Oh, mine is not like the debilitating kind or like mine is not, you know, like, it doesn't stop me from like, living my life. You know, what was not that that dark? And I remember Cohen and being like, oh, yeah, me too. Me too. And I was like, oh,

Zack Arnold: let's just minimize all of it, shall we?

Erica Wernick: Right, like, and I know, they, I there's such good people. And they were doing such a good thing by talking about I know, they didn't mean it. But in that moment, I felt B because I was like, Oh, they're talking about it. And that's so great. But I feel it maybe deeper and darker than they are experiencing because everyone's experience is different. So that's why I want to tell people I've experienced it really, you know, really dark, in a deep ways that have impacted my life in a huge way. And I want to tell you that because I don't want someone listening to this, say, Oh, they're minimizing it. And I don't feel as seen.

Zack Arnold: Well, what I can tell you and I don't know how much this is gonna relate to anybody listening. But I know that you'll relate to is how hard it is to share this, especially when your livelihood depends on you being the one that's got it, quote, unquote, all figured out. So when I first started dealing with depression, it was something I had to deal with internally that I didn't even believe was real. And then I went through the process and talked to doctors and started medication and I started to accept it. It's a part of who I am. And it's something that I'm just gonna have to learn how to deal with it took me years to start, start to externalize it. But frankly, my business didn't even begin until I wrote a post all about my burnout and depression. And it was terrifying. This was years ago. And I wrote about it and I shared it. And in our own little way in our own little world went viral, right? It didn't go viral, like it was on CNN or anything, but in our world, our little kind of secular industry. Everybody had read it and it was the first time that I went public with it at all. And this was 2014 Maybe so the world is a lot different eight years ago. Not as many people were talking about it and I was terrified but everybody He was super, super supportive. Right? Then all of a sudden, people started coming to me to learn more about and that's when I built the podcasts and started building the blog. And that's kind of the inklings of the coaching program. But then the next step for me, and this is something I know you're gonna relate to a lot. And I'm assuming you know, whoever meets at is founder of I Will Teach You To Be Rich and has a, you know, New York Times bestselling book and online courses and all this stuff. And when I was just starting to learn from him, one of the things that not he specifically, but like his group and his community in his program, they're like, oh, yeah, you're the burnout coach, because I talked to so so many people how to how to handle and overcome burnout. And I done this, what in my mind at the time was this huge launch. And I did this five day challenge. And as like, 1100 people that signed over the challenge is like, so overwhelming. Oh, my God, I've made it right. And then all of a sudden, burnout hit me like, it's never hit me before in my life. And I've talked about this before on the podcast, where 2017 was essentially what I call my last year, from complete and total burnout. And one of the hardest things for me to ever write, but one of the most beneficial was I wrote a piece on his website, of which a million people read that site a month, that was titled, How I burned out as a burnout coach. Uh huh. And then, just two months ago, it happened again. But here's what I found change. And I'm saying this, some for the listeners, but I'm really just kind of saying this to you as well. It's getting easier to write about it faster, and write about it when I'm in it. Because it's one thing to say I'm in and now nobody can know. I've got to figure it out first, right? Then I'm gonna write about it when I'm all better. That's was kind of the way that I did it for a while I'm super healthy and helping everybody then I disappear. Nobody can know what I'm going through. Once I figure it out. And I feel amazing again, then in retrospect, I can write about it. But I said, You know what, screw it. I'm burned out. And I'm sending a newsletter tomorrow. And I'm going to just tell everybody, guess what? I'm burned out right now. I just finished working on Cobra Kai for 15 months straight. And I was just on American Ninja Warrior. And I've been dealing with all this other stuff and major health issues in my family. This isn't a post about I was burned out a year ago. And here's how I fixed it. I'm in it now. And the amount of support I got from that newsletter and the engagement that I got is more than I've ever gotten before.

Do you know how many refund requests I got? Zero? How many refund requests did you get on your Facebook Live when you were sharing your story? None? None? Right? But why are we so terrified of that? Why are we so terrified as creatives and entrepreneurs, to be honest, like why is that so hard?

Erica Wernick: Yeah, I It's so fascinating talking about how you got better at sharing when you're in it. Because as coaches we're taught not to do that. We're taught to wait until you're on the other side and you have a lesson that you can share, you know, and I noticed that Rachel Platten Do you know Rachel Platten, she's, I don't know, she's a pop singer. On Instagram, she started sharing when she was in it. She was dealing with pregnancy stuff, and, and, you know, other things. And I remember her, like, saying something specifically about that, like I'm sharing it while I'm in it, instead of waiting till it's over. And she got so many comments, and even me reading it, it just was like, Oh, my gosh, like, so you're not on this pedestal, you know. And one of the pieces that was hard for me as a coach, coming out to talk about it, I always knew that I was going to talk about it. And it was on the back of my head for so much of the time that I was depressed. And when I started getting help, but it took a long time until it was really ready. But I was in this little circle of coaches, people in our lives and people that I knew not not people that I was all friends with. But people that were in my awareness who put on this air that they never have problems. And they're very successful. Like there's one in particular multi-millionaire. She's done so well. And to me, like there's no vulnerability and anything she has ever shared ever. And so I've always had a hard time connecting with her because of that. But I thought but she's a multimillionaire. She's doing something, you know what I mean? So like, clearly, she never has problems and her life is great. And then I thought, Oh, well now there's something wrong with me. Because I'm not fat. I'm not you know, great all the time. I have, you know, struggles in my life, you know, things aren't always easy. And so I internalize that and you know, already was struggling with that piece and then on top of it depression and medication and all of these things. So All of that also made it challenging for me to share.

Zack Arnold: Well, speaking of sharing, I'm going to shamelessly plug you for a second. So you don't have to, and you still can if you'd like to. But you're writing your second book was a big part of this. And I know that the big, you've self published your last two books. Correct. And this second one you're working to now get it's probably like get an agent. And I don't know isn't all that? Yes. So you're still you're still working it all out?

Erica Wernick: Yes. Yes, I printed 100 hard copies, because I really wanted to see my book in hardcover. And I wanted to design all that. And so I have some I have a few left of that run, that I was selling, and shipping myself. But yeah, so I'm not 100% Sure. Because I'm developing another TV show. And I just don't know. I'm open. I'm open. Yes.

Zack Arnold: Well, my point being what I wanted to send people to because it's already out there is not just your previous book Meant For This. But the audio reading. Oh, thanks. I have been doing this. As a coach and podcaster. For almost 10 years, I've been obsessed with personal development for far beyond that. I like you very much obsessed with personal development, high achievement. It's a part of my identity, which is both a superpower and very much a kryptonite. As we've discussed. I listened to your audiobook for five minutes, and I felt flippin invincible. Oh my god, I'm like, Oh my God, I believe in myself right now. Like, you, you are definitely a performer. But I can tell you really believe this. And you really want to see that impact and others and I've listened to a lot of amazing books that are so boring. Oh my god. Like I just like I probably shouldn't listen to this while I drive because I'm going to fall asleep. And in there five minutes of your voice and me is somebody who listens to like Arnold Schwarzenegger, motivational speeches and The Rock. And like, you know, Denzel was like, I've got a YouTube playlist of the stuff that I put in, when I'm like punching a punching bag or doing ninja stuff. Yeah, you like five minutes, the exact same effect. So I say that because I what I really admire is that you didn't just hand this off. And if somebody do it, you put the whole thing together yourself. I remember reading your post about Yep, another day in the audio booth recording with the, you know, the pillows in my closet or whatever. Yeah. But you just, you saw it, and you made it happen. And very, very few people do that. And it sounds like you're doing that with your latest book as well,

Erica Wernick: that I that means so much to me, like, Wow, thank you so much. Because I'm really proud of that audio book, you know, I, I got an editor who edited and he's also a music composer. So he composed music. For me, I had already purchased some music, and then he composed stuff to sound like it. So it's all fit together, it has music, and I just think it's really well done. I'm so proud of it. And if if a chapter didn't sound good, I redid it redid the whole thing. And it was so much work. But my theater background, you know, like, I was like, I think I got this like I think I know, you know how to do this. And I had posted about this a little bit, but I write like I talk. And so you know, I was very nervous about my book, because it's not I don't write sophisticatedly

Zack Arnold: Thank you, by the way for not making that choice.

Erica Wernick: I you know, I just I don't, I'm not I don't write in a sophisticated manner. And it's like, I hear a rhythm of words in my head when I write. And I write that. And because I and I talked about this too, actually, I had an English teacher in high school tell me that my writing was better for something like advertising. And then I'm like, Hey, I paid my rent with that book. But, but I was like, since I write like I talk, I feel like the audiobook should be good. You know, because it sounds like I'm talking and I can, you know, use the all the inflection that I met when I was writing it. So. So thank you, that means so much to me like that audio book was definitely a lot of love went into that project.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I know that it was a huge labor of love. And I wanted you to know that not only did it maybe pay off financially, but I think if it had that kind of impact on me in five minutes, I can't imagine the impact that it has on the people that are also listening to it, that need to hear it even a lot more. Not that I don't need to hear it. But again, I have a lot of those voices, and I have becoming one of those voices myself. So it was a matter of Yeah, I want to make sure and do the research and be prepared. But five minutes later, I forgot that it was about preparation. Like I believe I can make this right. But here's here's the other thing. I think this is important. When it comes to this idea of belief and intuition and manifesting your dreams. There's a huge component that I think a lot of people miss this, this idea of the woowoo factor are the secret, right? The secret comes out and all I need to do is create a vision board and manifest my dreams and write this down and all my dreams become reality. I believe that that's actually important. A lot of people are like, Oh, that's about Crap, I believe in all of that. However, none of it means anything without action, you get that you are a big part of the woowoo factor and believing in the universe and putting it out there. But you're not just sitting back and saying, do all these things in your dreams magically come true? Right? Got to put in the work. Yeah, and you put in the work.

Erica Wernick: Thank you. I like to think that meant for this is a combination of those two things. You know, it's like a little bit of the whoo stuff, because I do think it's so important, but also a lot of the tangible, you know, pieces to it, because you're right. I mean, that's, that's, that's how I am. I'm an action taker, you know, but I let the woowoo stuff guide me and you are the magic has nothing tangible in it. It's a very different book. Well, it's not very different. It's, it's more Woo. But it's, it's like how to take action with it. Yeah, cuz I do. I do think that's so important. And actually, if we're going to mention the secret, I listen to a lot of Abraham Hicks. And this, you know, one of the original people that was supposed to be what the secret was based on their work and long story about why they ended up taking abraham hicks out of the out of the movie, but they talk about like, Oh, it's so simple, you know, like, it's three steps, you know, dream it up, you know, believe it, ask for it and receive, and what I have found. And maybe you have found this too, with that simplicity is, is like the second step there, because you can receive anything if you don't believe you can receive it. And so there's like, all these limiting beliefs that hold us back from actually getting these things. And then those limiting beliefs not only hold us back from receiving, but from taking the actions that could help us receive it. So for me, it's it's like It is that simple. If you're, you know, perfect in your mindset game, and how you think about everything, which I just feel like, nobody really is,

Zack Arnold: I was gonna say they're exactly zero people, even the multimillionaires that have the Instagram photos with them in front of their jets, yeah, Mo Money, Mo Problems. They're not any happier than us. And most likely, they're probably even a lot more miserable, and have a lot more issues to deal with, but that we don't see that side. Right. Right. So all of that to say that I wanted to make sure that anybody that's listening to this that has been inspired by your story can continue to be inspired by your work, where can they find you, your books, your site, and make sure that they can follow along in this new stage of your journey?

Erica Wernick: Thank you, I appreciate it so much. I mean, like I said, I'm not coaching anymore. So I just putting all my energy into my books and the TV shows that I'm producing off of the books. So meantforthisbook.com. And you can find that for this and any online, real retailer. But there's a trailer on that website. And more as you can see the table of contents and more information. So if you head over to meantforthisbook.com. And Instagram is sort of where I'm at these days at Hollywood Success Coach. And that's kind of all of my energy is on those two things. So definitely come find me and say hi,

Zack Arnold: well, I implore everybody to do so. And I'm going to make sure to link to all of those resources in the show notes. But I also want to be very conscious of your time because it is valuable, and cannot thank you enough for being on the microphone with me today in putting up with all of my mansplaining and my interruptions, and everything else. But I just I wanted to spark that fire that I used to have all of

Erica Wernick: my insecurities and my deepest, darkest truths. So I really appreciate you creating this platform and creating this space and allowing me to share this because hopefully we help somebody today. I hope

Zack Arnold: I have no doubt that whomever is listening right now there's at least one person that it's not just a matter of helping or giving them insights we might have really and you specifically sharing your story could change the trajectory of your life for the better, which is why I do this because I want to make sure that those stories get out there and you have that ability to impact others. So on that note, I cannot thank you enough for being here.

Erica Wernick: Thank you so so much for having me.

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