The Way Is Simple, but the Road Takes Courage
About Episode
In this episode I speak with Janace Tashjian and Natalie Baker, two members of my initial test group as we wrap up week 7. We discuss their successes and setbacks in their first seven weeks, how to stay motivated even during periods of intense stress, and the idea of “Coming out of the health closet” and not being ashamed to want to live healthier despite being surrounded by those who might encourage you to do otherwise.
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Transcript
Zack Arnold: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Fitness In Post podcast. I am joined today by Janace Tashjian and Natalie Baker, who are members of my initial test group, and we are just finishing up week seven, which is roughly halfway through our program. So, hello to Natalie and Janace.
Natalie Baker: Hello.
Zack Arnold: So, what I would like to discuss today is I want to talk about where you guys are in the program, as far as your progress or your lack thereof, and the reason I chose you two for this show to be on at the same time is because you’re in very different points in our test group, and I want people to see that there are realistic setbacks, and I want them to understand that this is just a couple of real people in the industry that are trying to make this work, and just kind of walk through things that are working for you and things that aren’t working for you. So I want to go ahead and start with Natalie, and Natalie was the first monthly winner of our program, and she walked away with a nice tub of vital fuel, and most importantly, she walked away with the NutriBullet 900 series for being our overall winner. So Natalie, tell us a little bit about where you are so far.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, I love my NutriBullet. First off, well, right now I this week this week’s been a tough week. I’m still I’m training for my half marathon in about a month and a half or two months, and I’m doing well. I’m getting down to race pace with my heart rate zone staying in about zone four, which I don’t remember the numbers. I think that what goes up to 170
Zack Arnold: Yeah, it’s a little different based on your your height and your weight and your face level. But yeah, it’s it’s roughly in that zone. Like you’re you’re you’re a little tiny rabbit, so your heart’s going to be a little bit faster than
Natalie Baker: Most people. Yeah. So so I was happy with that. That it’s staying in zone four for my, you know, almost race pace. So I’m happy with my progress on that. I did have like a tough week this past week because the weekend got away from me. I was planning a bridal shower for a friend of mine, and that literally sucked up way more of my time than I thought it would. And I was exhausted by the end of the day. And so I literally just-it was 8o’clock-and I was like, I I just can’t. And then the next day was the shower, and I was, and I, I think I did like 19,000 steps in that day, and that’s without running, and that’s usually what I get with a run in during the day. And so I literally felt like I had ran 10 miles that day, and I was like, I can’t do this again today. So I’m slow going back into it because I was so, but you know it’s one of those times when life just really got in the way of it. So yeah, and I’m also starting T 25 Zack had been you had been telling me that I need to do a strength training exercise that was a little bit more structured, and I said no, I’m fine. And then I decided that I was bored with these strength training exercises and wanted something more structured. So I got T 25 which is hard. It is really hard. And I and
Zack Arnold: I remember somebody thinking to themselves, “Oh, my my strength training is good. I think I’m going to be fine. And then I saw a Facebook post that said, “Oh my God, I’m so tired. These are so much harder than I expected.
Natalie Baker: Yep, yep. It was they’re exhausting. They are. I am like drip. I mean, and I do it like on my rest. I basically I’ve been integrating it by doing when I have my like two mile days, my easy two mile days. I’ll do a T 25 workout as well, and it is it is tough. I get to minute, you know, 12, and I’m like, oh geez, yeah, I can’t believe I’m only halfway through this. I can’t believe it’s only 12 minutes, and I’m like dripping sweat and like just, oh, it’s hard.
Zack Arnold: Yeah, I’m I’m just just getting into that for my new phase of the the program as well. For anybody that doesn’t know, T25 is a Beachbody program that’s run run by a trainer named Sean T, who’s actually the guy that designed the Insanity program. So this is like the intro version of Insanity, where instead of 60 minutes, it’s 25 minutes for each workout. Almost all of them have no weights whatsoever, and you’re just using your body weight, using gravity, and it’s a really good way to build cardio strength, build endurance, build full body strength and balance without having to use weights, and it will kick your butt. But it’s only 25 minutes, so it kind of eliminates the excuse of I don’t have the time to do something, and that’s why I suggested it for you because it’s a really good supplement to the running. But the other thing that I wanted to talk about with you a little bit before we move over to Janace, who I haven’t forgotten about, is if somebody’s listening to the podcast, the first time they heard from you was week zero when we just got started. Tell me about the difference between where you were when we first started the program and now, because I work with you every day, and I’ve seen just a tremendous difference in your energy level and attitude and everything else. But tell me from your perspective, just what the last seven weeks has done for your overall well-being.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, I mean, I feel way better. I feel I’m not cranky in the morning. I don’t come in kind of dragging my butt and you know slouching in my chair all day. I don’t have by midweek. I don’t feel like I don’t feel. Jittery, and you know, I don’t have a lot of nervous energy. My I have my anxiety at work has gone down significantly. I mean, you know, that’s that’s the that is working out, and that is also work has not been as stressful. But it’s still, I just do not have the sort of nervous energy whenever I send a cut or send something out, or I just I’m much more of a calm, cool, and collected person, which is really nice. And you know I feel like this part of my life is a little bit stressful right now. So just personally in my personal life, so it’s been really nice to have that sort of escape into working out and to having my long runs, and and it’s been really nice. I love. I miss. I miss spending my afternoon just kind of running because I can. I can run to the ocean from here, and it’s really nice on a Sunday to just go to the ocean and you see that right in front of you, and it just. I don’t know. It puts everything in perspective, and it just. It can’t. You know. It keeps me in check, keeps my attitude up, and you know, just knowing like I can do this whenever I want to. It’s just it’s really nice, right? Yeah. So I feel I feel great. Things are better.
Zack Arnold: And you may not remember this this period because it seems so long ago now. But I remember the first two or three weeks. There were definitely some walls that you hit, and I I can’t speak for you. You can speak for yourself, but I kind of got the impression that this is something you’ve gone through in the past, where you kind of jump in, kind of get into it, but then fall backwards. And I feel like the accountability and the people around you in this test group have made a difference. So would you would you agree with that?
Natalie Baker: Oh, totally. Yeah, I think that was week four ish, or week three or four-ish, where I said it was really tough to get out of bed because I do my workouts in the morning and I’m not a morning person and I hate getting out of bed like that. I just I hate it. I feel like there’s a weight on top of my face and I cannot lift it off the pillow. So now I’ve been getting up in the morning and saying, if I don’t do my workout, everyone’s gonna know I didn’t do my workout, and everyone is here working hard, and I can’t be that putz who just sits in bed all day, like just doesn’t get up and do it. Because I know when I get up and I’m up for about 20 minutes, I’m gonna say, “Damn it! Why don’t I just wake up and do the workout on time? Because that happens a couple of times where I say, “I’ll just do the workout tomorrow. Tomorrow’s supposed to be my off day. I just push it to tomorrow. 20 minutes later, I’m up and I’m like, I could have done this today. This was silly, but you know, having those people there make me, they make me do my workout on my off day. They make me get up the next morning and say, you know, everyone’s doing this. I need to do this too. I told you know I’m doing this race and I can’t punk out on all of it, so it’s been-it’s really-I love the accountability factor because that’s such a help, such a help.
Zack Arnold: And we all wake up in the morning and look at the step count and see that Dan Barubi is already at 40,000 steps by six a.m. and we just have no choice but to keep walking, or else he’s just going to embarrass all of
Natalie Baker: Us. I know, Dan Barubi. My God, he is on the East Coast, though.
Zack Arnold: He’s a machine. The man is a machine, and if you knew where he started, he deserves every bit of it. Because man, he he started out by far in the worst place of anybody in this group, and he is killing all of us right now.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, I can’t. Yeah, there’s no catching up to him. Oh, I was saying I’m doing half marathon training, and he’s 100,000 steps ahead of me. And I do like 10 mile runs sometimes, and he is 100,000 steps ahead of me.
Zack Arnold: Yeah, it’s kind of nuts. Yeah, and I
Natalie Baker: Take tiny steps.
Zack Arnold: Right. Yeah, you’re little,
Natalie Baker: So
Zack Arnold: So you you get more steps than everybody when you you go the same distance. Yeah,
Natalie Baker: He’s yeah he’s crazy. He’s insane. He’s doing great.
Zack Arnold: Well, let’s go ahead and transition to Janace, and just for full disclaimer, in case somebody hasn’t listened to previous podcasts, the three of us all work together in person, or I should say work together, because I’m now on hiatus and off the show. But the two of you are still working together, and I know Janace, you’ve had a few more setbacks than some of the others in the group, but you’re still pushing forward. So, kind of walk me through what the last seven weeks has looked like for you,
Janace Tashjian: Well, I’m sort of wishing our our our two prep weeks prior to the test group starting had been had been rolled into our program because those first two weeks were probably my almost my most ambitious weeks for a few different reasons during that period of time. It was a little bit easier for me to be consistent with with my program. But basically, what happened is, you know, right in the first week of us beginning, I had bought the Power 90 program along with using the Shakeology program, which I’m still doing consistently, six out of seven days. And right away, two days into the Power 90, I started experiencing a lot of of symptoms from my previous back conditions: a lot of sciatic pain, a lot of numbness in my feet and my legs, and really. Having a difficult time moving around, and the Power 90 program is not a terribly, terribly rigorous program. I mean, it’s a you know it’s a moderate program depending on your fitness level. Some might even consider it you know mild to moderate, but it started causing problems for me right away. So immediately I had to stop for a couple of days, let things calm down, and and then I’ve been slowly trying to reintroduce something more manageable. So I’ve I’ve backtracked quite a bit. I’ve I’ve been walking some, and I’ve been using my elliptical trainer quite a bit, so I’m fortunate to have that in my garage. So those kinds of fallbacks have been happening for me. The increased activity is definitely aggravating my nerves. So what’s difficult is really more of a fear factor in that am I actually hurting myself, or is this just a hurdle that I need to get over and get through, so that I have enough, you know, strength, agility, and fitness to get out on the other side and and be more consistent with my program? And I still don’t quite have the answer. I’m sort of plagued with having a lot of really great information and knowledge and resources, and not only not having great discipline, but also dealing with those fear factors in terms of not wanting to injure myself future forward.
Zack Arnold: Right. Well, the the the thing that’s encouraging to me, my whole philosophy of life is that like I’m I’m not afraid of failure and I don’t respect anybody less if they fail at something. What’s important to me is how you react to failure, and I don’t think that you’ve failed in any sense of the word. I just you’ve had some struggles and it’s been harder for you than some of the other members of the group, but your motivation is still there, and you’re still trying to do what you can to make it work. And that’s really part of this program that I put together. Is that not every step is going to work for everybody, but you’re still trying to find ways to adapt and get the activity in. And I feel like you’ve been really good, especially about the diet part. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here, is because you’re you’re so knowledgeable about the diet portion of it, and you know how to cook the right things and how to eat the right things. That I think that the reason that you’re still moving forwards despite the physical setbacks on the fitness side is that from a dietary perspective, you’re really good about that part of it. So I think, I mean, you can speak for yourself. I don’t want to speak for you, but it seems like from what I’ve seen, from where you started to where you are now, there are still benefits. You’re just not getting quite the endorphin rush from doing the the intense exercise that some of the other members might be getting.
Janace Tashjian: You know, it’s interesting that you bring that up because the diet the diet part of it is is also tricky, and it’s not that it’s not straightforward. I find that it’s very straightforward. And in the early weeks of our preparation, and and this this may have been a mistake, but I’ve made this mistake before, and it’s not for lack of good intention. But you know, I generally eat a really good diet anyway. I’m generally a healthy eater. You know, fresh foods, mostly organic foods. Not a lot of simple carbohydrates because I have terrible hypoglycemia. But I definitely struggle a little bit with with sugar intake. And when we first set out, I kind of went hardcore, sort of cold turkey on the whole thing. You know, I stopped putting agave nectar in my coffee, even though I only used a little bit. I stopped having you know treats with my son after dinner or what have you, and was really able. I would say for the first four weeks of our program to just cut it off entirely with some really good success, but that’s a that’s an easy category to to backslide in unless you’re someone who can really just do a little bit of something, and I’m sure other people in the group can attest. But you know when you have kids around and and birthday parties and you know graduation parties and gatherings. It’s very easy to backslide. So I’ve I’ve done a little bit of back and forth with that. But one of the things you and I talked about, Zack, which is very prevalent in in my my mind and and part of this conversation, is that all of these really well-intentioned changes are just fantastic, and I I don’t want to give them up. But I will say honestly that I haven’t really cracked the code yet. In that, even though I know I am experiencing benefit, I. Think that my percentage of benefit is a lot lower than it could be, or that I want it to be, and I haven’t really gotten to what the source of that is yet. Even with the dietary benefits, even with you know going from being really almost completely sedentary to at least mildly active and and moderately active in bits and pieces. Some things don’t really feel like they’re changing at all in one in one direction or the other. But I’m sure that I’m I’m sure that I’m gaining benefit. I’m just looking for that moment where it’s it’s a little bit more measurable,
Zack Arnold: Right? Well, one conversation I remember you and I having to this end, probably about a month ago, was you were saying just this, where other people are getting into their programs or changing their diet or trying Shakeology, and they say, “Wow, I feel totally different. And you were saying to me, “Well, I’m not getting any of that. And every time I try to do a workout program where I, you know, totally change my diet in the past, when you’ve been trying to do different things here and there, you didn’t have these big life-changing benefits. But then the next question I had for you is, “Well, how did your stress level change, and what happened to the quality of your sleep, and your response was oh, and that’s something that I really try to emphasize with this program is that number one, this is not a quick fix, and the fact that you said you haven’t cracked the code yet, yet to me is the key word there because we’re still working on cracking it. We may not even have cracked it by the end of this challenge group, which is still going to go for another six and a half or seven weeks, but we will crack it, and I’m still confident that we’re going to hit that hump that you’re going to get over. I think part of it might be because you did have a physical setback with your workout program, but if we can find a different workout program that’s more suited to your level of non-impact that you require, that might be something that gets you over the hump because it’s it’s very hard to have one aspect working and the other one’s not working and see that transformational change. It’s really about the synergy of proper diet, getting the right amount of activity, making sure that your stress levels are regulated, and getting good quality sleep. And you had said that if if it has anything to do with stress or sleep? Well, I’m just screwed because like that just doesn’t work. Because you’ve spent years. I mean, you can tell people about some of your experiences. Like you’re probably one of the hardest working, most stressed out producers on the planet. Literally, like I don’t think anybody can touch what you went through for four years on Avatar. So I mean, talk a little bit about how like you’ve been in quite extreme situations.
Janace Tashjian: Well, I wanna I wanna differentiate something that you just said because I think that there are a lot of layers to stress, stress management, being stressed, having stress, absorbing stress, and releasing stress, and they’re all really really different. And you can be someone who, you know, I certainly strive to be, and and hope that I am, though I’m sure I am not always. You can be someone who can take on a lot of stressful situations and maintain a certain level of of equilibrium and balance. But what I’ve discovered in my travels is, even if you have the ability to absorb it, you don’t always have the ability to let it back out of your system. And I’m sure that that’s something that I struggle with. And I think we can easily become conditioned, just like we can with any other disorder. Whether you know it be the way we walk, the way we sit, the way we eat, the way we sleep, our posture-all things like that-is you you start to compensate for it, and sometimes you don’t even know that you’re compensating until until you look back down a really long stretch of time and and see a profound change over a long period of time. So you know stress is a and what stress does to our body I think is for lack of a better word, is a really powerful sort of not a drug, but it’s a it has a huge chemical effect on our bodies and our minds and our our ability to work at even a reasonable proficiency. So you know, stress and sleep are a huge factor in our well-being. So it may be that we’re doing all the right things in terms of oh, we’re eating better, we’re we’re exercising more regularly, we’re communicating with each other, we’re heightening our awareness, but there’s still a. Huge piece of the puzzle that has to do with how we can optimize our bodies and our minds to to deal with and eliminate our day-to-day stress.
Zack Arnold: Right, and I think it’s. I would assume that most people that are listening to this are probably aware of this to a certain extent, but stress is the number one killer of human beings in our country, and people will say, “Oh, well, it’s heart disease or it’s cancer or whatnot. But the level of stress we have in our lives largely dictates the way that our body physically performs, as far as our immune system and our weight regulation. Like stress is the thing that’s killing everybody. So if you have an impeccable diet, and you are working out six days a week, and you have insanely unhealthy levels of stress. Everything else is going to go out the window, and it’s all for naught because stress is something that has to be managed as well. And I can say firsthand from seeing you work your magic in doing what you do, you’re like the Bruce Lee of dealing with crises in the post world, like you, you have like the one inch punch. Have you ever seen the one inch punch that Bruce Lee does, where he’s like standing one inch from a board, or his his fist is one inch, and he just barely twitches and he breaks the board. Like that’s what you do with producers and visual effects houses. Like everybody is in crisis mode, 24 hours a day, and you just say like four words, and everything is taken care of, which is great. But I know there’s a part of that where you’re absorbing that stuff too. I just I know your personality, and you would rather take it on than have other people take it on. And I’m sure there’s a part of that that affects the the reaction and the results that you get from the other parts of the program.
Janace Tashjian: You know, Zack, we we started having this conversation, and we can we can pick it up now for a few minutes. But we we had gotten onto this, and it it had reminded me of a a favorite, albeit you know largely unknown quote that I’ve carried around with me for for the last 20 years or more, and it’s an anonymous quote. I actually have no idea who who the author of of the quote is, but it speaks to me in in a lot of different ways, and it comes to mind now based on the conversation we’re having, and it’s quite to the point, and the quote is that the way is simple, but the road takes courage. And to me, what that means is that we already know somewhere within us, whether it be at the surface or buried, or you know, it’s in there. We already know in any given situation we know what we must do, but it’s really mustering the courage and the wherewithal to move in that direction. That is the hard part, and you know this this test group is is chock full of really smart, dedicated, and talented people, and then there’s the real life stuff that comes into play. Where even though you know what to do, you know you can whip yourself up a great meal, you can design yourself a fitness program, you can have a four-hour dissertation on you know positive health tactics and dietary tactics and fitness tactics and seven-minute workouts and meal replacements and all of that stuff, but if you can’t muster that last percentage on a consistent basis, it’s it’s it’s hard to maintain.
Natalie Baker: Just to add to that, like I’m a little worried about after my race, what I’m gonna do. You know, like what do I? How do I keep it up? How do I continue if there’s no end goal? Although I am probably gonna join the Spartan race, but still, like I was a nice, yeah. I think I’m thinking I’m gonna do it. But there’s still like a part of me that at some point it’s like I’m not going to have a race coming up for a few months. How am I going to muster the the energy to just go out and continue to keep up a schedule like that? You know, and am I going to fall out of it again and get back into
Janace Tashjian: It? Good answer. There’s no good for that, you know, because there there are a lot of very structured concepts that go along with living the lifestyle that we all live. We work because, you know, realistically we must work and pay our bills, right?
Zack Arnold: That
Janace Tashjian: And that that has to happen. So we work because we have to, and and hopefully, like many of us, we enjoy and love our careers, and then you start adding to that where you have kids. There’s mouth to feed and and put a roof over our head and and do all that stuff. And so there’s that reason and that purpose, you know, whether whether it be bills or your family or your mortgage or what have you. And and so it it always comes down to a really interesting paradox when we look at fitness and well being in general. And I often find myself asking, well, when does that become a really important thing enough to enough to make a substantial change.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, yeah. Like my my my my future sister in law. She is she is super. She is so fit. She’s she’s really dedicated and really focused. And when I was visiting her, she was taking these yoga classes or these. She was training to be a yoga instructor, and I remember she was like, “Yeah, I’ve just got to get up at like you know I’m gonna get up at six to go to my yoga instruction class. She’s like, “They’re not really mandatory, but I figure they’re there, and I’m supposed to, you know, and they’re free, and I’m just I should just go. And she’d do this like three, four times a week, get get up and go to 630 a.m. yoga class before work, and I was just like, you know, I was there, and she did it. I was like, I was just amazed that she. There’s no one telling her to do it. It’s not mandatory. She just has that internal. She just and she just decided to do. She’s like, yeah, I’m just gonna do it because you know, might as well. It’s like, wow, that now that’s inspiring. That’s like,
Janace Tashjian: Yeah, that’s like
Natalie Baker: Good, good, good for you. And she’s like nine months pregnant and still like going on runs and stuff. She came into a Skype or a FaceTime conversation. She’s like, “Hey, just got back from a run. I was like, “Wow, girl, you are good for you.
Zack Arnold: Well, it’s it’s it’s funny you bring up this whole thing about, for lack of a better word, you guys are talking about developing habits or not developing habits, and this isn’t necessarily something I had on the agenda, but just yesterday I was reading an article about habit development and how long it actually takes to develop new habits and have something just take form in your brain where you don’t even have to think about it anymore. And there’s been this misnomer out there for decades now about some research study that somebody did, and he basically found that it takes at least 21 days for any specific activity to become habit. And then this went to all the the researchers and all the people that wrote books and all the self help gurus and all the motivational speakers, and it basically became the catchphrase: It only takes 21 days to to develop any habit. And to anybody, the idea of something taking 21 days is like oh well that’s not so bad I can do anything for three weeks and then it’s going to take hold, but unfortunately that wasn’t really true and they find that based on the type of habit sometimes it can take way longer than that up to like I think the number is 254 days or something so it’s easy to get discouraged if you think from the outset that your life is going to change within three weeks, and I’m trying to dispel all of that with this website and with this program. I’m trying to give long-term solutions through education and through accountability. So the fact that something hasn’t taken hold for somebody, and you’re still having trouble getting up at six in the morning for a yoga class, or you’re still having trouble trying to fit in a workout, I don’t want anybody to be discouraged about that because it can take a long time. Personally, it took me years to go back to what you had said, Natalie, about you know like oh when I’m done with my marathon or my half marathon, what am I going to do now? I had that exact problem. The gateway for me to kind of get into this and start moving forwards and get away from being sedentary was my sister who got me to sign up for a tough mudder. I believe it was like three or four years ago. Now I may be wrong, but it’s somewhere in that area. So I dusted off my old copy of P90X, which I’d never finished. Got through the whole program in three and a half months. Did the tough mudder, raised my arms in the air, said I accomplished it, and then I sat on my butt and I got fat, and I gained all my weight back, and then some. Lost all of my strength, and it was like, well, now what did I do, and how did that happen? So I kept doing that cycle over and over, like three times. And it wasn’t even until last year that I finally figured out that this needs to be a lifestyle change, not a three or four month goal, and then I’ve done it, so I no longer have goals where it’s like I’m going to get here and I’ve done and I’ve succeeded. Now I have benchmarks. So, for example, my you know my benchmark this year was I’m going to compete in the Spartan race and I’m going to get the Spartan trifecta medal, which means that I’ve done the Spartan Sprint, the Spartan Super, and the Spartan Beast, which are three miles, eight miles, and 13 miles. But then, when that’s done, I’m going to find something else to go to. And the the idea behind this program is I want it to be ongoing for you guys too. And that’s why over the last few weeks, as you know, Natalie, because you become involved with this, I’m designing an entire team of people that are part of the Fitness In Post program, and we can have multiple groups running at the same time in different specialties.
Zack Arnold: So that to me is the way that Natalie, you’re going to keep up because not only are you probably going to want to sign up for another race or a Spartan race or whatever it is, but you’re now going to be accountable to others that you’re going to lead, and your job is going to be to lead by example. So. Essentially, fitness in post was just the most gigantic form of personal accountability for me that I could ever devise on the planet. Because I’ve now put myself in a position where I literally cannot miss a workout or eat crap, or I’m going to hear about it from 1000s of people on Twitter. So
Natalie Baker: You’re not coming to Stella Barra with us to have some butternut squash pizza. If it’s
Zack Arnold: Friday, I might. But but you know, I think that subconsciously there’s some truth to the fact that I designed this because I knew that I wanted long-term accountability, and I’ve got it. I can’t back out now, and I think that that’s a really healthy thing for a lot of people. And now that you’re a member of the team, and you’re going to have the opportunity to lead other groups. Not only are you going to be part of the group, but you’re going to be the leader of it, and people are going to be looking to you. And I think that’s just going to build long-term accountability. And you’re if you haven’t already hit this point, you’re going to hit it soon, or you’re going to be more uncomfortable when you don’t stick to a workout or you don’t stick to a diet than the other way around. Because for probably the first two months, at least, if not longer, it’s always oh, I got to work out today, or all right, I got to do my workout. Oh, I have to watch what I eat. But then you you pass this point where all of a sudden you’re thinking to yourself, oh man, I’m gonna have to miss my workout today. Oh, that sucks because you start thinking about how that affects the way you feel because you start becoming hyper aware of when you don’t feel good, as opposed to when you do feel good, and I’ve gotten over that hump finally, and I just I don’t see any going back at this point unless there’s some major setback in my life. But I’m at the point now where it’s been it’s become complete rote habit, and it’s just something I need to do because I want to continue to feel the way that I to feel the way I do now, I don’t want to give it up. So now it’s just it’s trying to maintain where I am because I just don’t want to go backwards.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, no, I was thinking about that. I think it was maybe yesterday or was this afternoon where I was like, it’s so it’s like falling off. It’s like getting not right going off the wagon again is if you go back to a habit or if you’re getting it’s off the wagon or is it on the wagon? Anyways, I’ve never been able to
Zack Arnold: Figure that out either.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, so I was just thinking about how like great I feel when I work out. I do my Shakeology. I have my vital fuel. I you know, and I do this consistently for a week. And how great I feel during the day. And how I’m like, why would I ever go back to feeling like crap and feeling all the the jittery stuff and everything, but I was thinking, and I was like, because it because it’s so easy, because it is so easy to just zone out and sit at your computer and not do anything all day, and to like zone out and just sit in front of your television and watch Netflix all day. I was like, that is so easy. And I was like
Janace Tashjian: That though. There’s there’s an opposite side of that for people who are very busy and potentially go through very long periods of time of whether it be high stress, you know, high responsibility, high level of you know hours of work, etc. etc. and when you have that moment to yourself, I can certainly attest to so many times where you just you’re almost non-functional.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, you just
Janace Tashjian: Want to zone. Yeah, you don’t want to do anything or be responsible for anything or for anyone, you know, for just that moment, you know, just a little bit of time, and we we we get in. And I don’t want to say it’s twisted bad because there, it’s not that there isn’t any merit to it. It’s of course how we moderate those feelings and the need to have an escape and creating healthy escapes for ourselves.
Natalie Baker: Yeah,
Janace Tashjian: But when you feel like there is just absolutely no time for anything but not your personal treadmill, but like the life treadmill, you know, wake up early, make the lunches, get the kids to school. Get yourself to work. Work all day. Work, work, work, work, work. You know, get home, make dinner, go over homework, make the lunches for the next day, clean the dishes, do the laundry, and and then there’s that whatever it is. Maybe you have 15 minutes. Maybe you have two hours to yourself. You know, and the question becomes, how you know how are you going to spend it, right?
Zack Arnold: Well, what one thing that that came to mind while you were saying that, and I’ve been through those periods, and I know that you’ve been through them worse than probably anybody with with the projects that you’ve worked on, but I’ve been there where you just work, you know, 80 hours a week, and you become a lump of dirty laundry where you just incapable of doing anything. Literally, like you can barely get out of bed and make breakfast for yourself. I’ve been there many, many, many times for years. I was there, but what I found is that if you find a period of time where you’re not in that, and you use that downtime to. Start building up and changing your diet and getting more activity, and you build resilience and you build immunity, so that when that period comes up, the next time you now have built these longer-term habits. So if if somebody listening to this is working seven days a week right now, 12 hours a day, realistically they’re not going to jump in and start this program. But if they’re aware of it, and the next time that they’re you know on a hiatus or they have a break for a month or whatever it is, that’s the moment to jump in because if you can start building a little momentum, you get to the point where when that next stretch hits, you have more resilience. And I can give the perfect example of this will be a very personal story, but I just finished my Spartan race a couple of weeks ago. It was the Spartan Beast, which is 13 miles. I’ve been training for it for over four months, in the best shape of my life. And less than a week after finishing the Spartan race, I got a phone call saying that my mother was extremely sick, and she was raced to the hospital. And I flew to Wisconsin on a moment’s notice and found out that my mother has been diagnosed with a you know potentially fatal form of cancer. So for the for the last week of my life, I got about three to four hours of sleep a night, and I was sleeping on you know waiting room floors and sleeping with her in the room. I was monitoring her, making sure that she didn’t do anything because she’s been in and out of consciousness and trying to pull out her IVs. And if you want to talk about just the the highest levels of stress and cortisol going through your body, the last week of my life encapsulates that. But I’ll tell you the one thing that I threw in my luggage, and I had to pack in about five minutes because I got the call, I booked a flight and I was out of LA in two hours. I threw my NutriBullet in my bag. I threw my Shakeology in my bag, and I threw my box of T25 DVDs in my bag because that was my resiliency. That was my wall that kept me going. And had I not done that, had I not had the background of watching my diet and knowing how to keep my energy up, and how to just stay focused. I would have been destroyed over the last week, but that’s what kept me going. So this stuff is not just something that’s a lark or oh, it’s going to make you feel a little bit better. Having done this for the last four months, that pretty much is what got me through one of the most stressful periods I’ve ever experienced while being alive. So that’s why I think this stuff is so important because I’ve experienced what it can do for you firsthand.
Janace Tashjian: You know, to that point, Zack, even if you have very little time to dedicate to building a new program, one of the one of the things that I think is really positive about this program is that even if you did nothing but input information about yourself, and whether that be tracking your sleep, tracking your calories, tracking your steps, tracking what, even if you changed nothing, there’s a tremendous amount of awareness that builds within you when you begin looking at your habits, regardless of what you do with that information, it’s a really, really powerful tool to see your habits, and that’s part of what may or may not be inspiring to any given individual to make even small changes. You know, I I can certainly remember all kinds of text flurries between Brian Labelle, another one of our our test group and coworkers about you know, oh my gosh, I’m at this restaurant for lunch, and did you know that this, you know, Bombay Bowl has, you know, 627 calories, you know, and you know, maybe thinking that you’re you’re eating something healthy because it’s a certain place or a certain type of food or what have you, but really, really examining your lifestyle habits, and it’s a very powerful, very powerful, and interactive tool. So I think that’s probably one of the things I like best about it is that it it really gets you thinking and and paying attention and discussing it with your peers and even as I said, hopefully we are all making changes, large and small. But even if you change nothing, you’re changing your awareness. I find that, like many things in life, not just your fitness, but with our, you know, with our work, with our families, with all of our relationships. Once you’re enlightened, it’s very hard to unsee what you have seen, and once you gain the knowledge, I think it’s harder to buck that knowledge and not give yourself an opportunity to make hopefully positive changes.
Zack Arnold: Right, and and that’s that’s. The kind of the whole idea behind the way I design this program is, like you said, not everybody’s going to be able to jump in and do everything or even change anything. But the first two steps of the program are number one, set a goal for yourself because you can’t move forwards until you know where you’re going, and number two is to track everything. It’s not to change everything; it’s just a track thing. It’s to know what you’re putting in your body. It’s to know how much activity you’re getting now. And for the first two or three weeks of the challenge groups, I don’t ask people to change anything. I just act the ask them to start being aware about their current activity, to know what they feel like, to know what they’re eating, to know what their activity level is, because then when they apply those changes, they can look back on what they’ve done three or four months ago, and that’s where you see the tremendous shifts in the way you feel, the way you look, the way that you, you know, whether or not you have energy, and that in and of itself is motivation coming from within because you’re seeing how far you’ve come, and I really think that that’s that’s a huge factor that plays into this. There’s a saying, and I can’t attribute it to anybody specifically. But the saying goes that that which you measure, you can improve upon. I don’t really think that you can make really lasting forward progress unless you know where you’re starting. To have a finish line, you have to have a starting line. So that’s why the first two steps require no effort other than setting a goal and tracking where you are now, and then when you’re ready to move forward, you jump into steps three and steps four. So I’m glad that that that that’s something that you recognize and you really feel works regardless of the situation that you’re in.
Natalie Baker: And I mean that also goes, you know, having that, like you said, Janace, having that awareness and Zack, like with your situation this this week, it’s like when you’re packing that bag. It’s like, how am I going to get through this? Well, I’m going to get through this because I know if I don’t have these things with me, like these are the things I need to get through this, and that’s that’s the best part of doing all of this, and and the tracking part, and you know, having all of the data because you know, like I know when I have 8000 steps in a day. I did not do well today. Today was not a good. Today was not the best day. So next tomorrow, I better step it up and like. Why do I feel kind of you know why do I feel kind of lazy? Why do I feel kind of down? Well, I got 7000 steps today. That’s why I better you know get up, walk around, you know shake it off, and then do better the next day, and just and I don’t think if I didn’t even you know just something simple as step tracking. If I didn’t track those steps, if I didn’t think about well what did I eat today, then I don’t think that I’d have the energy at 9o’clock at night to say get up, shake it off, do better tomorrow. You know this is this is what you know these are the things you did, and this is why you feel this way. So tomorrow, make it better. So you’re right that you know the education and the awareness and knowing what you did and what makes you feel better is is you know it’s immeasurable. It’s something that’s that’s that’s so valuable. And so when you get into your 12-hour days and you get into your horrible weeks and months where you don’t see the sun or any you know knowing what can make you feel better that that’s something you can’t you can’t measure
Zack Arnold: Right so the the last thing that I want to get into before I let you guys go for the evening I want to go back to the pizza discussion because you had mentioned the the Stella Bar pizza and we’ve certainly partaken in no small amounts of pizza on the the show we’ve been on for the last eight months, but what I kind of want to talk a little bit about is something that I believe might be more prevalent than people would think. Post production is kind of looked at as the the pizza and beer community, and a lot of shows will order in lunch every single day, order in dinner every single day, and it’s burgers and it’s pizza, and it’s Thai food, and it’s you know it’s things that generally aren’t very good for you, and I think that there are a lot of people that succumb to that because of social pressures. But at the end of the day, are thinking, you know what? I’m really kind of tired of this, and I really I want to eat better, but I don’t want to I don’t want to miss the opportunity or feel like I’m being unsocial if somebody asks me out to lunch, and I don’t really want to go. Like I’ve been in the position for years where I’ll a lot of times bring my own food. And on the last show that I was on, we didn’t get food brought in, so most of the the people in our office would go to lunch every single day, and I would always say no because number one, I didn’t want to spend the money, and number two, I just didn’t want to eat a lot of crap because that affects my cognitive and my physical performance, and I want to be good at what I do and work at a at a high level. So I just want to talk a little bit just about I guess the concept of like coming out of the health closet, and I just want people that kind of feel like they’re in this position to know that there’s now a resource to help get you out of that and start to spread the idea that we can make healthier choices because those choices make us better at what we do.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, I mean, on our on our last show, I remember. Well, first off, whenever I start a show, I never bring my lunch the first maybe definitely not the first day, definitely not the first week, so. So, because I need to, I want to know how do we do things on this show. Like, I generally like if I I don’t go, you know. When I was working with you, Zack mostly more full time. I knew that I could bring my lunch every day, and that’s what I felt. And and I like bringing my lunch every day, and I I like bringing my leftovers, and I like sandwiches, and bringing all that in because I’d rather do that. But I don’t bring it the first week because I’m like I don’t know what the culture is like. I don’t know what we do for lunch. I need to figure it out first before I just come in here bringing in my leftover lasagna and you know whatever. So yeah, because I need to know. I never bring my lunch because I know that I need to figure out, and I feel weird sometimes bringing my like what you made for dinner the night before might be a little weird or might be like you have like chicken and green beans and some rice. It’s kind of a funny lunch to just kind of like warm up and you seem I don’t know it seems kind of for people you don’t really know and to see you I don’t know it it always seems a little bit weird to me I always feel a little insecure about it so it’s weird and on our last show, our PA used to get really good, really good snacks from Trader Joe’s. All these like good, healthy snacks and fruit and everything. And someone complained at some point, being like, “You hippies with your food, get something real! Like, and so the PA ended up getting like Cheetos and donuts and all these things that this person requested because we were all just these health nut hippies who wanted nuts and fruit. Like,
Zack Arnold: Yeah, but but they wanted the real food, right? They
Natalie Baker: Wanted real because Cheetos and donuts
Zack Arnold: And all that other stuff. That that’s all real food, right? Disclaimer: It’s not real food.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, which I thought was ridiculous. I just thought that was so ridiculous. I was so happy with our snack selection before that,
Zack Arnold: Right? And I and I know I’ve I’ve had people that literally have said to me, “What you’re too good to to order a burger with us? What? What do you got? Tofu for lunch today? Which, by the way, number one, tofu actually isn’t that healthy. But that’s beside the point. Yeah. But like I literally have had people that you know you feel like you’re in high school, and everybody’s sitting around having their pizza and beer, and you’re like, “Well, but I don’t want to feel like crap, guys. You know, I’ve kind of gotten to the point where I just accept it. Like I’m the guy that walks into a new job on day one, and Janace had this experience firsthand about eight months ago. I walk in, I demand my standing workstation, I bring in my treadmill, and I’m wearing my funny-looking vibrams, and everybody’s like, “Who is this guy? Like seriously, right? And that’s just something I’ve come to accept, and I don’t care about anymore because I feel so much better when I work than when I used to that I just don’t care. But I know there are a lot of people that that makes them uncomfortable, and they might be thinking, “Well, I kind of want to stand, but you know, I’m going to be a little bit left out, and people are going to ask me questions, or you know, think that it’s weird. That’s what I’m trying to put an end to. If people want to sit and they want to have pizza and beer at lunch, great. I’m not trying to change any of you. But if there are people like me that are feeling like they want to break out and they want to make healthier choices, I don’t want that to be the exception anymore. I want there to be a place where we can all come together and you know move forwards with that idea. And I know that there are already posts on the forum from 10 or 15 different users that are building their own versions of standing desks out of boxes of paper and cardboard boxes and putting their monitors on speakers. Like people are starting to to make the movement towards becoming more active and standing, and that’s what I’m excited about.
Janace Tashjian: Yeah, that’s great. I haven’t, I haven’t really personally been the recipient of of that kind of pressure. It’s
Natalie Baker: Because you’re the boss. No one’s gonna say. No one’s gonna criticize you.
Janace Tashjian: I’m, I’m my own worst enemy when it comes to making the right choices. So it’s typically like I’m either, you know, doing great and I’m I’m maintaining, or you know, it’s it’s one of those things. Like if it’s around and it’s within my reach and my sight, then it’s going to be harder for me not to consume, but I’m also not that person that’s going to say nope, can’t have any of that around, and you know that kind of thing. As a manager, you know that’s not really a realistic approach. But I think that from the perspective of a manager, I really fully advocate the idea of of having a variety of choices that you know aren’t going to put the team to sleep by by 2p.m and I think it’s great when people bring their lunches and and do that kind of stuff. I’m also glad you know when we’re participating in a project, that we have the ability to provide, you know, provide food for people, because another thing that tends to go along with our business is a lot of hours spent at the desk and not going out and working through, and you know. Eating at your desk, and and I am more more you know more guilty of that myself. Even given the opportunity, I often make the choice to to to not partake. But one of the things about this program that I think is a blessing is it’s sort of inspiring, regardless of what you ate for lunch. At least with having several of us in the test group, it’s been really fun to say, “Okay, great lunch, guys. Let’s go out and take a walk.
Natalie Baker: Yeah, or we keep each other in check. Yeah, I mean not today, but other days. Saying what, guys? Like me, like even when me, Brian, it’s just me, Brian, and David. We’re like, you know what? We really should go to Tender Greens because we’ve been bad this week. We really need to have a salad lunch, guys. Yeah, like yeah, we do, we do. And I mean, that’s a little bit of anomaly. It’s just the three of us left, and you know, we’re all we’re on the program and stuff. But and we know each other after working together for eight months. It’s been very, but yeah, there’s a nice
Janace Tashjian: Celebratory component to our choice of lunch today. That’s true.
Natalie Baker: That’s true. One, yep, that’s true. So,
Zack Arnold: Well, one point that you just brought up, Janace, that I thought was really interesting, is that you, as a manager of a department, part of your job is making sure that you have the most efficient group of people getting the job done in a timely manner and to the best of everyone’s ability. So part of that, if there are other post producers that are listening to this, is making sure that your crew is fed properly. And I know that that’s that’s something that comes up a lot on sets. Is that you have to be very careful about craft services because if you have cookies and M and M’s and ice cream and everything else, 4o’clock you’re not getting crap out of your crew. You’re getting nothing. And I think that of of all the jobs I’ve been on, even though we certainly have not so great options, I feel like you’ve been very encouraging to make sure that you know there are good options available to everybody, and we always have plenty of snacks, and we have the option to put our own things on the list and meet our own dietary needs, and you know that that’s a really big plus that that we got from this job, and I think that a lot of other producers can take a cue from that because at the end of the day, it’s better for the bottom line.
Natalie Baker: And let me tell you, those that even just taking every day when we took that 20 minutes just to have lunch together as a group, I mean, this is a different thing. But just taking that 20 minutes to all sit down and decompress for a second, and like eat a good meal, take a break, and then go back to was just that was my saving grace. January, February, March was doing that. Just that was just that got me. That’s that got me through the day is knowing that like I can go to work. I’m gonna be fed well. We take a little break, and then we go right back to work. And it was that was just great. The show has been a bit of like I said, an anomaly with in terms of the food and being able to and being you know accept you know everybody being sort of accepting of everyone’s dietary needs and everything like that. But it’s it’s definitely it’s been a problem on other shows, and yeah, but this has been that’s been good, yeah. And the fact that we’re all in the group and encouraging each other in person has been just just great.
Janace Tashjian: Yeah, it’s it’s been a pleasure in particularly in that regard, particularly when you know I’ve got Zack like testing me at lunchtime, seeing if I want to eat that extra bread sitting on the table. Come on, I’m not that bad. Come
Zack Arnold: On, you’re painting me like a Nazi. I’m not that bad.
Janace Tashjian: No, no, I say that was a compliment. That was a compliment, you know, because it’s we we all say we want to do certain things, and then what we put into practice can sometimes be a little bit different. So even even inside our group, to have a little bit of healthy challenge and competition and and encouragement, it all sort of comes hand in hand. And and I I appreciate the whole package of that.
Zack Arnold: Right, and and that’s the idea. It’s it’s all about accountability because if there’s anybody listening to this right now, and they’re thinking, “Well, I’m going to jump into a program, and I’m going to get the Fitbit, and I’m going to follow the steps. But I don’t need to tell anybody I’m doing it. I can pretty much guarantee you’re going to fail. So that’s why this community is here is to build awareness and bring a group of people together where we all have the same obstacles we deal with every day. So there’s no more excuses. We’re all competing against the same environment, so let’s kind of compete together.
Episode Credits
This episode was edited by Michael Schmidt, show notes were written by Matt Christensen (@mchristensen), and the show was executive produced by Kanen Flowers (@iamkanen). We are a member of the THAT STUDIO podcast network.