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About Guest

From 1995 to 2015, Jane Arnold was a part-time instructor at St. Mary’s University of Minnesota, Viterbo University, Wisconsin Bankers Association, Northcentral Technical College and Connected University Harper Collins Publishing. She was also a Macintosh expert at Wisconsin Public Radio.

She graduated from University of Wisconsin Milwaukee in 1971 and finished her masters in 1976. She was the founder and president of Wisconsin Council for Gifted and Talented from 1975-1978 and was also involved in various gifted programs until 1982. She was also a part of the Project HAPPE from 1974-1978.

Aside from her career in education, Jane was also the Vice President of Bank One Wisconsin Trust Company. She was also active in the community, being involved in organizations such as the YWCA GREATER Milwaukee, Girl Scouts of Greater Milwaukee, University Lake School and Waukesha County Technical College.

Transcript

[0:00] Zack Arnold: My name is Zack Arnold, I'm a Hollywood film and television editor, a documentary director, father of two, an American Ninja Warrior in training and the creator of Optimize Yourself. For over 10 years now I have obsessively searched for every possible way to optimize my own creative and athletic performance. And now I'm here to shorten your learning curve. Whether you're a creative professional who edits, writes or directs, you're an entrepreneur, or even if you're a weekend warrior, I strongly believe you can be successful without sacrificing your health, or your sanity in the process. You ready? Let's design the optimized version of you.

Hello, and welcome to the Optimize Yourself podcast. If you're a brand new optimizer, I welcome you and I sincerely hope that you enjoy today's conversation. If you're inspired to take action after listening today, why not tell a friend about the show and help spread the love? And if you're a longtime listener and optimizer O.G. welcome back. Whether you're brand new, or you're seasoned vets, if you have just 10 seconds today, it would mean the world to me if you clicked the subscribe button in your podcast app of choice, because the more people that subscribe, the more that iTunes and the other platforms can recognize this show. And thus the more people that you and I can inspire, to step outside their comfort zones to reach their greatest potential.

And now on to today's show. For a long time now, I have wanted to sit down and do an interview with my mom to ask her the big questions about life that we seldom (if ever) really discuss. So for this Mother's Day, I decided that it was time to prioritize this conversation that I've wanted to do for so long, even if it meant that I had to suffer through the perils of recording on Zoom, as opposed to honestly chatting face to face. This episode is a very special and personal one that frankly, I recorded for me. This one's not for social media sharing, it's not for search engine optimization, and it's certainly not to grow an email list. This one is for me. But my hope is that listening to today's conversation with my mom inspires you to reach out to your parents (if of course you are still fortunate enough to have them alive) or instead, maybe your siblings or those who helped shape the person that you are today, so you can have an honest conversation with them just like this one. This is the first of a two part interview, where I have created a series of 20 specific questions that I'm calling 20 questions to ask your mom on Mother's Day, which can of course be repurposed to suit your own personal needs. These questions to be very clear, we're inspired by a similar exercise from high performance coach Brendon Burchard, and I linked to a Facebook post where he provided these questions several years ago. So on that note, without further ado, this is part one of my conversation with my mom on Mother's Day. This episode is made possible by our amazing sponsors Evercast and Ergodriven, who are going to be featured just a bit later in today's interview, to access the show notes for this and all previous episodes, as well as to subscribe so you don't miss the next inspirational interview, please visit zackarnold.com/podcast. I am here today with none other than Jane Arnold, which not a coincidence is actually my mother. So mom, welcome to the podcast today.

[3:20] Jane Arnold: Thank you very much.

[3:21] Zack Arnold: So the reason that we are here is I have a series of questions that I want to ask, this is going to be about your background growing up going to be about your career, be about your family, and just kind of be about life in general. And this is a series of questions that I put together based on a very similar series of questions from another online writer and influencer and coach, his name is Brendon Burchard. So I want to make sure that I give him due credit. These are not questions I made up off the top of my head, but I did modify them a little bit. But what I find very interesting and talking about coming full circle is that as I was growing up, one of the fond and very frequent memories that I have is that I spent a majority of the first 10 years of my life in a car. We did a lot of driving going to different places all over the country. And we often played a game called 20 questions where we would come up with some person, place or thing or otherwise. And we would spend hours and hours in the car playing 20 questions. And now we're going to play a game of 20 questions, but it's going to be all about you and your life. So I can learn more about you. And by default, other people that are listening can learn a little bit more about you in life in general. And the hope is that this is going to inspire other people to have similar conversations with their parents

[4:34] Jane Arnold: Sounds good to me. Interesting.

[4:37] Zack Arnold: That's the idea should be pretty simple. We'll see how far the journey takes us and how long it goes which would be completely up to you and how deep you want to go with all the stories. So if anybody wants to listen to the other one that I did with my dad, it aired I don't remember the exact date but it would have been around Father's Day of 2020 and the exact same questions and for anybody that's listening, I will have these questions available to all of my newsletter subscribers. So if you want these questions, you can either just listen, or you can reach out, and I will send them to you. So pretty simple. Alright, so we're just gonna dive in, and we're going to get started. So the first five questions that I have are going to be talking a little bit more about your background and growing up. So the first question is, when were you born, where were you born and what memories come to mind when you think about growing up as a young child,

[5:28] Jane Arnold: I was born in 1944. And you can do the math very quickly. I was born in Chicago. And the first three years of my life, we lived in Chicago, very near my aunts and uncles, and my grandmother, in fact, lived with us or other relatives, I think thought you know that we lived with my grandmother, but we were very happy about it and say the least I loved it. I was her full time job. From the first minute in the morning until the last tucking in at night. I usually spent right with her all day long. And I loved it. She had a very, very strong Irish robe, she had come to the United States from Ireland, at age 19. I think about 1895 and married and had children after that my mother was her youngest child that's helped that living arrangement to come up. But it was a matter of stories and Tales from Ireland and being read to making up poems. Something you may be recently familiar with, with the poems I made up for your daughter for her birthday, the last couple of years, which has been such so so enjoyable for me to be able to do that. But that all comes from my grandmother, whose name also happened to be Jane. Jane is a family name in that side of the family and Jane's go way, way back a number of generations actually. And I've always loved that name, very proud of that name. In fact, I realized not too long ago that I have three children. And all of you have names with four letters in them. John, Kate, and Zack.

[7:11] Zack Arnold: Interesting, or if we were going to really deep down the rabbit hole. And I'm not going to give this entire secret away to my audience. And people that know me personally know this, but technically, Zack is not my four letter first name. We're not going to talk about what it is. But for those who don't know, I actually go by my middle name, but my first name is also four letters. So funny enough, I don't I don't know if that's a coincidence or not. But

[7:32] Jane Arnold: no, you're exactly right. But I was just about to tell you that told you that. Yes, yes, you are a member of our family by blood. It's the four letters that go with it. So you have two four letter names. So that's really quite distinguished. I was three years old, my father was transferred to the Milwaukee area. And I remember moving day very vividly, because I took raw bacon and which was one of my favorite snacks that I don't think anybody knew about it was the meat that was so tasty, and hid in the bottom huge cabinet of our home. And for quite a long time. In fact, nobody could find me because the movie men were moving in and out from all the rooms of the house. And my mother was getting increasingly upset and hysterical. And my grandmother was it. It was sort of a big deal. And I just sat there munching on the bacon and they finally found me dragged me out to the car literally handed me my Dolly Close the door. And off we drove to Milwaukee. I like Chicago better, let's just say that. But it's turned out to be a very nice life and turned out that a turn to view for me a life with your dad and with you and with your brother and your sister and always surrounding relatives. So although I still like raw bacon and

[8:56] Zack Arnold: I was gonna say Here we are only five minutes into the interview and I've already learned something about you. I didn't know my whole life. I knew you love bacon. I did not however know that you liked raw bacon. So that potentially explains a lot.

[9:08] Jane Arnold: I fell it's really it's really those those chunks of meat that are delicious, but I haven't had any in a very long time. But I had a handful I mean, I literally grabbed a handful and in the cabinet was seems huge, even in my memory No. And they did overlook it. They didn't realize I did that quite often. So

[9:29] Zack Arnold: I didn't know that you were such a pioneer for the for the ketogenic diet. So you you'd be you'd be a pioneer in the CrossFit community with with eating your your raw meats, they'd appreciate that.

[9:38] Jane Arnold: Well my gosh, I never thought of that. Yes, like a whole new life.

[9:42] Zack Arnold: It is there's even a thing called the carnivore diet night now where the only thing you eat is meat. That's it.

[9:48] Jane Arnold: I just ordered a diet like that for my cat.

[9:51] Zack Arnold: So there you go. You were a trendsetter many many, many decades ago,

[9:54] Jane Arnold: well, it's never stopped.

[9:56] Zack Arnold: Yes. So the second question on our questionnaire continuing to discuss this idea of background and growing up. And as you know, as a bit of an aside, one of the reasons I love to do this podcast and talk to other people, is I'm obsessed with understanding how people are wired and why they behave the way that they do and why they make the choices that they do and how they're able to achieve the things that they do. And so this is a really cool question for that specifically, which is what are the most formative memories or experiences that you had as either a child or a teenager that you believe led you to the person that you have become today

[10:30] Jane Arnold: I have two that are related, very closely related. And that is, was the behavior, I guess that's the right word that's values, the behavior, the interest in other people that caring for other people that were shown by my mother and father, which were very different, which were very different. I don't exactly know why. And because they both died. So Young, and I was so young when they died. I never got the stories from there. There are many, many missing stories in my life, because it's that, but my father cared deeply for people. I he was a marvelous, marvelous father. He loved my mother, he certainly loved us be concentrated on work, but was very active, for instance, all but just he made it up for our church, try young persons group, youth fellowship, I believe it was called, which took him away from our home on Sunday nights. And he was very all teenagers, if you can imagine all kinds of things, from dances to hay rides, to quizzes to just sitting down and chatting together. And flip that over just a little bit. And you would see my mother sitting in the living room, not saying much to him, but talking to me and my sister about how he was gone, and how that was just a shame, he should be home with us and very strong values and interests and things and stuff. And as a result, my sister and I have more more stuff to get rid of as our age increases than I think even that young woman who wrote that book would even dream of, but she was very, very interested in being the best looking. And she was very beautiful, the most beautifully dressed, going to the fanciest places. In other words, their values. And their interests were very diverse. But they loved each other very deeply. They were married a very long time before these illnesses took them. At least it seemed like a long time, I guess the days celebrated their 27th wedding anniversary, which is not a very long time, now, or maybe even then. And it had a strange effect on me. And I think on my sister, she and I are very diverse. I was just crazy about my father, and had questions for my mother, which you brushed off about things like this is I noticed them. And I would say our relationship was okay, but not great. And I have tried tried, you'd be a good word to tell me sometime not on the radio, how successful I've been in trying to be either a mix of those two, or leaning more to my father's side. But even their own life experiences. She was the youngest of four children by several years, and was very spoiled her older brother. In fact, her oldest brother, put her through Northwestern University because he thought she was way too smart to go only to a teacher's college to become a teacher. So I think her family had a lot to do with her values, as did my father's kind of negative long story way. But they were as I think about it now, such vastly different people. The one thing they had in common was that they slugged each other so deeply. And we saw we also saw that and that we've tried both of us, my sister and I both, you know to put that kind of love into our families, and maybe get what you know, lose some of the other behaviors and things that we saw and experienced.

[14:19] Zack Arnold: Well, the the audience may have picked up on this already. But just to kind of make it clear. I never met your parents because they both passed away before you even had my oldest brother john. Correct. So even he's never met your parents. Right. And they both passed away roughly the same time wasn't fairly close to each other two years apart.

[14:39] Jane Arnold: And how old were you? I was 21 My father died and just barely 22 by a matter of two weeks, when my mother died and she died six weeks short of my first child being born. That would be your brother.

[14:54] Zack Arnold: Yeah. And how old were they?

[14:57] Jane Arnold: They were both 58

[14:59] Zack Arnold: both 58 Wow, that's interesting. And you know, from what I remember both cancer,

[15:03] Jane Arnold: yes, my father had Hodgkin's disease, which is a blood cancer. And my mother died of colon cancer, my theory has always been that she really died of a broken heart, that the stress of his illness and then finally abusing him, just overwhelmed her he was sick for seven years, which is a long time was too young teenagers and, and that she just simply died of a broken heart. And I think I really think that in many ways, however, psychologists or psychiatrists will prove it. They were so close that, I mean, her life just was abbreviated boom, she had these two lovely young girls with their acne and braces, little glasses, and all of the concerns that come with that. And I think she just gave up well, I

[15:54] Zack Arnold: would, I would make an make an assumption, perhaps. But I feel like an educated assumption, having grown up with you for essentially my entire life, from the moment I was born, and frankly, nine months before I was born, that perhaps the most formative experience that you have for who you are now is having lost them so early, because I don't know anybody that is more fiercely independent of the new thing nobody on the planet have I ever met, this is fiercely independent as you are. And I will guess there's probably a connection there.

[16:24] Jane Arnold: Well, I think there's very definitely a connection there. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you a secret. I don't think I've ever told anyone this before. But I was going to the hospital, one Saturday morning, and I was pretty pregnant by then, to see my mother. In fact, we were removed her from one hospital and took her to the University Hospital at the Wisconsin University Hospital in Madison, I think that was the day we were moving her. And I got close to her room, and she was talking to somebody and it could have been, you know, anybody but it wasn't, she was talking out loud to herself. And what she said was, I've waited all these years to do the things that I wanted to do. And for john and me, my father and her to do the things we have always wanted to do. And now neither of us will ever do those things. And we will never do those things together. And that was I think, the single most important formative thing I ever heard about living your life.

[17:29] Zack Arnold: those are those are certainly important Words To Live By. And even though you've never told me that story, I would say that your behavior has exhibited that value, where if it's something you just want to do, you're going to do it, you don't care if you upset people, you don't care if it's going to, you know, get in the way of somebody scheduled. If it's something that you want to do, you're going to do it. And I think that a lot of that, in a lot of ways is probably rubbed off on me where I think that I know, this is one thing I certainly don't get from my father, because this is where he and I are very different, where the two of you are very different. But I've said on the podcast many times talking about the process of collaboration and working on projects and just taking a job. I know very, very clearly that I am great at working with people. I am horrible at working for people, I'm pretty sure I inherited that from you. I did not inherit it from dad, one of the one of the things that I talked about on the program all the time, and I know that you follow the podcast, and you probably even listen to this interview and read the book. But it's the one by Gretchen Rubin all about the four tendencies. And it's something that I feel is a really important framework to better understand relationships and what's a good fit as far as just working with people the right jobs. And they're the the four tendencies of the upholder, the obliger the questioner and the rebel and you fall 117% firmly in one of those categories. And I would say that you are definitely the rebel, would you agree?

[18:54] Jane Arnold: Oh, yes, I will.

[18:55] Zack Arnold: Yes, I've never met anybody more in the rebel category than you. And I inherited some of that. And I have a lot of the question around me, whereas I'm sure you can talk about a little bit later. Probably, I would assume lots of memories of me always questioning things. And if something didn't make sense, me fighting back, and none of that has really changed. I've gotten better at doing it more judiciously. But none of that has really changed.

[19:16] Jane Arnold: I think this stuff sticks with you your whole life, no matter how hard you try, if you bother to try but try or soften it or change things for different kinds of people, types of people, their needs, how related they are to you, etc, etc. But yes, that and I I really do believe in my own heart that it was hearing that he was so clear. I mean, we were standing probably not 10 feet apart, but she couldn't see me. She was back behind the wall. And I backed up a little bit when I realized who she was talking to which was herself and out loud. And I understood the import really, for the first time all ramped up with My own pregnancy and her illness and traveling and all of that. What that all really meant to her, I knew what it meant to me. I knew what it meant to my sister, you know, all the relatives, aunts and uncles, her friends. But I don't think I was only 21 that I had ever thought, what that meant to her. And what that meant that her life was being truncated way before its time, and my dad's had been, and that, more importantly, to her, their life together, had been truncated in such a terrible way.

[20:36] Zack Arnold: Well, there, there are a lot of lot of things that I think a lot of people fear myself included. But the fear that drives me more than any other fear is very, very similar to that which is getting to that point in my life where I'm regretting all the things that I wanted to do, but because of fear I chose not to, which is why I will often make the scarier choice and do what some might assume as kind of the the crazy option, and the less stable one, and there's less security. But whatever that thing is that I'm afraid of trying Next, I'm less afraid of it, then regretting having not done it. Like I can't even imagine if I had said three or four years ago, you know, it would be awesome to get on the show, American Ninja Warrior, it just sounds really hard. And I'm afraid that it would get in the way of my job. And it's gonna be a lot of work. And I don't know what it's gonna do with a family. So it sounds like it would be fun, but it's also kind of scary, and I'm not going to do it. So I can't imagine where I'd be right now had I chosen not to pursue that out of fear, given everything that pursuing a goal like that has given me in all of the other goals that I want to pursue in the future. And again, like I said, I think that this is just kind of in burned in my brain that this is just one of the ways that I filter my entire life knowing that I need to make the choice so that I don't regret having not made it later. But I've never heard that story until now. So it's really interesting how just through learned behavior and other conversations that that makes complete and perfect sense. And I never heard that story until literally today.

[22:03] Jane Arnold: Nobody has nobody has ever told anybody, even my own sister who you know, Mike boy who wasn't there, but certainly could have been as just but it was funny. I looked that was literally repeating pretty much word for word exactly what she said. And of course, I waited a little while, walked in a room, you know, Hi, Mom, are you ready to go? Can I help you pack? Just like I had never heard? Hmm.

[22:28] Zack Arnold: Well, it only took 41 years and a microphone to get the good stories out of you. So that's good to know. I'll remember that the next time I want to have a good chat. I'll make sure it's on the record. So I get the good stuff. All right. Well, we've kind of we've gone a little bit off the beaten path, but in the best ways possible. But going back to our more formal questionnaire, I think you've already answered this one. I'm just going to put it out there just so people know, this is one of the questions, but you pretty much already answered this one, which is what is the most important lesson that you learned from your mom? I would guess this is probably the one right? So without you knowing it, you already answered my next question on my list, but I don't think you've answered the follow up, which is what's the most important lesson that you learned from your dad?

[23:08] Jane Arnold: Oh, gosh, he was just, he was just a marvelous man. Your daughter just had a birthday party last night. And had my father been there. He would have been pretending to stumble downstairs, he would have gotten himself the some kind of clown mask, just to know kind of scare the little girls nine year old eight, nine year old girls. He'd be leaving them and saw me at some point you're teaching them songs like Daisy, Daisy, give me your you know, that kind of mirrors. He thought he loved that because kids could never sing it. And then when they all found out what that meant they were just so thrilled to have this song. So he he lived, not the least, freely or irresponsibly. But he has a sense of humor that would come out at Strange Times like birthday parties, hearing this office, stumbling noise coming down the stairs and everyone said, Mr. Secretary, you are right in there. He'd be sitting there with this great big grin on his face that occurred Hannah said that. Yes, indeed he would. So he kind of combined it all. He was extremely intelligent. Very, very popular. So I said deeply curious about people. But for him, I guess one of the messages I got loud and clear, was it life is to be fun, have fun, he would always say we'd go out the door and be after the home on time. You know, stay away from that boy, you know, good people. You know, in those in those years there were probably I guess so many dangers, but was probably perceived as Evie dangers if you're a parent of two teenage girls, but life was supposed to be fun. And that whole emphasis my mother had you know pink and green living rooms because that was what they were supposed to be, was just about when the responsibilities could be put aside for a moment, just have fun. Just Yeah, fun. Well,

[25:13] Zack Arnold: I would certainly say that that has come across more than once as well, again, not knowing that story at all, but certainly makes sense. And if we're looking at the the blend of the the influence that I would have gotten from dad versus you, that's an area of very stark contrast, as I'm sure you would agree, where it's as if somebody goes back and listens to the interview that I did with him for his upbringing, and very much for mine, it was always about hard work and discipline and following through and doing your best. And I don't think that it's a coincidence that I ended up being the valedictorian of high school, I don't think that it's because I was, frankly, the most intelligent, it just kind of wasn't an option. It just is the way that it was going to be in that just was what it was. And I know that there were a lot of times that I wouldn't say that you were against that, because you're clearly also been very successful. And we're always very supportive. But at the same time, you're like, Yeah, but you got to step away and have a little bit of fun and not work too hard, too. And I think that I've, I've been working my entire life to find what is the middle ground between those two things, because my default mode is work 24 seven achieve achieve achieve. But there's also the voice in my head that says it can't come at the expense of the people around me or the the quality of life doing it. And I will say that a lot of that voice probably is coming from you.

[26:32] Jane Arnold: I think if I just made buddy. And for a moment, there was a there was a period in your life where let's Well, I'll just say it. These people are all fans of yours. You're suspended from a cup for a couple of days when you were in high school. Not only technically

[26:47] Zack Arnold: it's great, by the way.

[26:49] Jane Arnold: Eighth grade. Oh, okay. even younger. And the person who suspended you was the principal of the middle school or junior high. Who coincidentally happened to be your father. Yeah. Funny how they were? Yes. Isn't that funny how that works, who called me and said, You have to come and pick up Zach right now. Oh, I was busy. I said, Why? Are you sick? You know, all the stuff? That was no, no, he said, I just suspended him for and he had the reason and all this kind of stuff. And I kind of fought back. And I finally realized I was fighting a losing battle. And you were proudly sitting there, you know, waiting for your loving and powerful feeling your mother to pick you up? Well, I got thinking about it that you are going to be around for three days. And I thought could we can go to the movies, we can go shopping, and do all these cool things during the week. And as I remembered at least we did some of those things. Did we not while you were suspended? We did

[27:49] Zack Arnold: Yes. It was basically a nice three day vacation from school.

[27:52] Jane Arnold: Exactly. And that exactly was what I wanted. I wanted to spend that time with you and enjoy every single minute of it was it was a gift. Those three days were a gift, you had math set the building on fire, you had not, you know, let the air out of everybody's tires as far as I was concerned, you know, that was fine. He had to do it for three days, because he was the principal couldn't let you off easy. He has never said that. That was my interpretation. But it was my interpretation. And since I was the person with the wax and the keys, we were going to have fun. Just like my father shoved out. I didn't even realize it. And we did. And it's been three wonderful. I memory. It's three just great days, like gifts out of nowhere. Yes,

[28:40] Zack Arnold: I mean, and like you said, had I done something that was a lot more severe to be concerned about to be different. But it was it all it's basically chalked up to boys will be boys in eighth grade and, you know, stupid skirmish that I got into and we both got suspended. And it was what it was, but I I'm with you that to this day had been anybody else. I think the two kids would have gotten off with a warning. But he needed to make it very clear that nobody gets away with anything, especially my son. So I think that it was a more severe punishment that somebody else would have gotten, which again, was all about the discipline. And you know, you do what you're told. And I think that it was very much making making an example. And at the end of the day, it's made for a good story for many years now.

[29:22] Jane Arnold: Well, it has, and he hates it every time I see that.

[29:29] Zack Arnold: Yes. Well again, goes back to the the rebel tendency of you know, as long as I'm having fun. I don't really care what other people think.

[29:35] Jane Arnold: Yeah, yeah, well, it's true, but don't get suspect. Yes.

[29:39] Zack Arnold: So moving on to the next formal question. It's an extension again, of your parents. But let's say that your parents were around today and they would have the opportunity to meet my kids, Elliot and Evelyn. What would they want to share with them?

[29:54] Jane Arnold: Oh, first of all, they would be so badly in love with those two kids. I mean, we all are, but I just think I faked I said, it's your dad that you long ago I said, it's a What a pity that my parents never got to know the kids know how fortunate I, your wife's parents are proved to love lovely people love those kids like crazy and spend as much time with them as they could and how wonderful That is, they have at least two grandparents. And that's fine. We're just very fortunate about that good choices, they're dear. But they would they would be absolutely crazy about those kids and their interests would be very similar in some ways. And of course, technologically totally diverse, but able to be learned in other ways. But just watch them grow up and see them be independent. The gift that I think you and your wife are giving the kids is the freedom and support to follow the things that they love, and not be forced into doing things for political reasons, or social reasons or society, you know, pressuring them and they I'm sure that Evelyn has never been told that she was supposed to grow up and be the prom queen, if there are still such things as prom queens. Well, that's what my sister and I were told. And, you know, we just chuckled behind the scenes looking at each other that that was never going to happen. But that was the whole idea. So that kind of freedom is exactly the kind of thing my father would have given them. Let's put it that way. I had not thought about that too, right now. But I see those gifts that I never thought about, you knew nothing about until now. given them so openly and with so much love. And the same thing would have been true for you that you would have had the same like your, your your other grandfather, your dad's Father, what a marvelous man he was, and how he would have loved them. And they love him back in return. And he wrote the I have letters that he wrote us. And he said that all the time about your older cousin fact, Samantha. She was the one little kid growing up in the middle of all this. And she did No, she did know her grandfather, Arnold. And he would say and give all my love to my precious little girlfriend. And they were just literally he'd say, he said I'm totally in love with that little girl. And she'd be just Grandpa, grandpa, Grandpa, grandpa. And that would have been a great love affair. And it would have been the same with Elliott and was totally different interests, very different personalities. He just would have laughed, the whole thing. Just loved to collect those gifts go way back and the loss of those gifts. go way back to

[32:54] Zack Arnold: Yep, well, guy would say the you're you're doing your best. And then some to impart a lot of those same ideals and values on them just as you did me and not having them around. It is what it is. But, you know, like I said, I never even had a chance to meet them. And both of my dad's parents, I think passed away. By the time I was eight, nine, I can't remember. But I didn't have I didn't have grandparents for that long. And I'm glad to see that. You know, Elliot and Evelyn are have two full sets of healthy grandparents and have their entire lives. And, you know, obviously, we hope that that continues. So

[33:31] My sincerest apologies for the interruption in the middle of this interview. But if you are a content creator or you work in the entertainment industry, not only is the following promo not an interruption, but listening has the potential to change your life. Because collaborating with Evercast is that powerful. Here's a brief excerpt from a recent interview that I did with Evercast co founders, Brad Thomas and award winning editor Roger Barton

[33:52] Roger: Living this lifestyle of a feature film editor has really had an impact on me. So I was really looking for something to push back against all of these lifestyle infringements that are imposed on us both by schedules and expectations. When you guys demo to Evercast for me that first time my jaw hit the floor, I'm like, Oh my god, this is what I've been waiting for, for a decade.

[34:16] Zack Arnold: I also had the same reaction when I first saw Evercast two words came to mind game changer.

[34:21] Brad: Our goal, honestly, is to become the zoom for creatives, whatever it is, you're streaming, whether it's editorial, visual effects, Pro Tools for music composition, LIVE SHOT cameras, it's consistent audio and video, lip sync, always stays in sync, whether you're in a live session where you're getting that feedback immediately, or you can't get it immediately. So you record the session and you can share those clips with people on the production team where there's no room for any confusion. It's like this is exactly what the director wants. This is exactly what the producer wants.

[34:47] Roger: What matters most to me is it makes the entire process more efficient, which then translates to us as creatives who spend way too much time in front of computers. We get to shut it down and we get to go spend time with their friends and family.

[35:01] Zack Arnold: The biggest complaint and I'm sure you guys have heard this many, many times. This looks amazing. I just can't afford it.

[35:07] Brad: Tesla had to release the Model S before they released the model three. So by the end of the year, we are going to be releasing a sub $200 version a month of Evercast for the freelancer, indie creatives. Anyone who is a professional video creator outside of Hollywood.

[35:23] Roger: I think what we've learned over the last few months is that this technology can translate to better lives for all of us that give us more flexibility and control while still maintaining the creativity, the creative momentum and the quality of work.

[35:37] Zack Arnold: I cannot stress this enough Evercast is changing the way that we collaborate. If you value your craft, your well being and spending quality time with the ones you love, Evercast now makes that possible for you and me to listen to the full interview and learn about the amazing potential that Evercast has to change the way that you work and live visit zackarnold.com/evercast. Now back to today's interview.

[36:01] So now we're going to make a little bit of a transition. Like I said, these questions are in kind of four different groups. first group of five is a little bit more about background. Now this is going to be a little bit more about you and career. So what path did you begin on in life when you first became an adult and why?

[36:19] Jane Arnold: path toward a career. There was one thing in my life I wanted to be and always wanted to be to this very to this very day.

And that was to be a lawyer. And that was Believe it or not, because I absolutely fell in love with constitution in seventh or eighth grade civics class. Now talk to think about that for a little girl in seventh grade, to fall in love with the Constitution. But I was walking home one day and I knew immediately that was what I learned. And I turned dance and skipped all the way home because it was just so clear that that was it. That was it. Just like when I met your dad I looked at I looked him in the looked him in the face and fell in love with them. And that was that. And that's what happened with the law. Well didn't quite work out that way. I had two little kids, you know, all the babysitters were gone. I mean, most people rely on their parents. Well, hello. My sister had moved out of the state by then and was was married. So I listened to Elizabeth Warren story very, very carefully. About that's where she was at one point in her life. But she calls her aunt. And she was saying he or she was sad because she couldn't go to law school. And she couldn't do this. And she couldn't do that. Because she had nobody either. And her aunt said, Well, I can't be there tomorrow. But I can be there Thursday. And she came Thursday. And she stayed with them with Elizabeth. And all the time those children were growing up and and for many years after that. And I heard that story on television day before yesterday, I believe again, I know that story very well. I lived it and somewhat proud about the ant. And I said to your dad, boy, that would have made all the difference in my life, if I had just had somebody to take care of those kids that I trusted and loved. And so what a difference that would have made. So my pattern kind of gets scattered. My mother had always said be a teacher, you get your soul resouces. Well, that did sound good to me. I thought well, what the heck, I know, I'll get a teaching degree plus, I had so many scattered credits, I still be there trying to finish it all. So I did. And that's that's what I knew. And although I was pretty sure I didn't really want to do that was very fortunate. I got a call from a local school district. And they had received a large grant for three years for a project writing and developing programs for parents of preschool children. It was actually called Project happy, ha PP? And would I be interested in coming in for an interview? Well, what the heck, you know, I wasn't going to law school. So I might as well go to project taffy. And I got the job and got started in one line that way. And over. In some meetings, I found out there were people who were interested in doing more work for gifted and talented children while I had to. And it's very evident in your case, because these your listeners know you will. And certainly true in your sister's case for a whole bevy of reasons in her life as well. I thought why have two gifted kids? I'm very concerned about their education. And I raised my hand and said, Well, I'd like to go to that meeting. Well, about two years later, I was president of the state group that I had actually helped to form along with four or five other people. It was an extremely important time in my life trying to get things done which are still not I've done in Wisconsin, for gifted students, but look at you. I mean, look at you look at your sister, look at your kids all worked out for it worked out for us, but not without some work and some pain. And talk about being a little bit of a rebel comes in very handy at a time like that. So that was fine. And then I decided, you know, found that was great. And by then you were on the way. And I thought, well, I think I'm going to try something different. Matt was staying home with you. And I loved it. absolutely loved it, we'd go to the park, remember the red slide Park and the pushing boy Park and all of these things that we did. Of course, the time came when you had to go to school, I thought, well, I might as well go back to work. And I saw an ad in the paper. And one of the banks in the state was looking for someone to lead their training program. I thought, you know, I had a, we had a checking account, we had a mortgage. And I think that might have been in my total experience in banking. But I wrote a very good letter, got called in for an interview had been in an auto accident about two days before and really walked very poorly because I went on my ankles had been injured. And I thought going up in the elevator, oh Lord, they're gonna think you know that I am a damaged person. And now they're gonna have to hire me. Well, this is this is gonna be embarrassing. How am I going to explain this? They won't even ask of course, because they do. At any rate,

it all worked out. So they hired me. And I ended up following code in banking for almost 10 years. absolutely loved it. It was a time when the whole world was changing. bankers were supposed to be affable. And I was supposed to teach them to be that way. Well, I had a blast, I just loved it. So then we moved, moved up to the woods, where we are still. And that that was a whole different experience that led me in many directions, taught me quite a lot, as a matter of fact, including how to deliver lambs, which is just but not to the store, but to their motors. We have two new ones. Now it's a matter of fact. And so that's kind of where my very sloppy career has led back and for us, but, and I was in the midst, in the midst of all of this, I was like, my ankle was injured in an automobile accident, while I was on my way to Mayo, my application to law school at the University of Wisconsin, and not taking it as a, as a, you know, all manner of things that, like, I was accepted to law school. And I went to my boss and shut up slammed this huge door to her office, she said, why would you want to do that. So you're just gonna have to read a lot of hard books, and you're gonna lose three years around here. So we can make that work if you want. But she said, we'll just give you the first of your promotions, and we'll pay you a lot more money. And she said, it'll be fun. And I thought, Well, yeah, that's better than having a move to Madison on one, blah, blah, blah. And it all turned out to be true. They gave me promotions, they, you know, helped me make a little more money. It was very interesting. And I'm still not a lawyer. But if I had a chance to do it today, I would

[43:22] Zack Arnold: Well, it certainly doesn't surprise me that you have an interest in constitutional law or the constitution because even though we're we're going to be releasing this audio only, if somebody were looking at the picture right now, they will see what's probably the most iconic memory that I will have a growing up which is entire rooms that are nothing but bookshelves of books. As a matter of fact, the first 10 years of my life, my bedroom was a library before. And I remember one of the things I used to get so upset about was that I couldn't put posters up in my room because my entire room was nothing but bookshelves of books literally floor to ceiling I was surrounded by 1000s of books to this day, none of that has changed. So it doesn't surprise me that especially given the most of your books and our about either law or the civil war or history or civic, you know, minded topics that certainly doesn't surprise me. But it's a it's interesting that you ended up going the the teaching route. Because this is something that you may have told me but I know the dad has told me more than once, especially when I was going to go out to Hollywood and be a big shot and leave the farm and all this and that. He had said to me, you realize that you are a teacher, and you will always be a teacher and the time will come when you choose to make the transition to not doing what you do to becoming a teacher. Are you crazy? I'll never be a teacher I would never do that. And now here I am. You know, obviously a very different form of it. Like I don't have a certified teaching degree and I'm not teaching ninth grade science or anything like that. But I would say that I've I have found a unique and 21st century way to become a teacher for a living and largely that's because of the the end Have nothing but teaching at the dinner table 24 seven for my entire life.

[45:04] Jane Arnold: That's pretty well true. And when I go back and look at at least my mother's family, pretty much that was the story. I mean that that's who they were my grandfather on that side of the family. I never met him either. He was an ordained in Ireland, he was ordained as the Methodist minister who are of course, teaching, that's what they do. My grandmother was I was not the only grandchild, I was the only grandchild force, fortunate enough to live for live with her as a young child. But the rest of them heard the same stories, the same poll and the all the things that she talked about the history of Ireland and the people and everything. And almost all my aunts and uncles, except the two who were dentists. Were teachers, teachers and one librarian in the group, which is the same thing as she would have loved your room, by the way.

[46:01] Zack Arnold: I'm sure she would have. And given all the teachers on dad's side as well. It's certainly no surprise that this is a transition that I decided to make not completely realizing that that's what I was doing at the time. And it's certainly no coincidence that I married a teacher.

[46:17] Jane Arnold: That's fair. Absolutely. Right. Yeah, well, it's the family business.

[46:22] Zack Arnold: It is exactly some people that have got all doctors, lawyers, dentists, whatever it is, and we're just just a giant gaggle of teachers. So I, it's funny, because I say on the podcast, and now it's making even more sense, but I say this to my coaching students as well. I don't know how to not mentor. It's like, I can't even not do it, if I try it. So if I have somebody I'm working with, that I hire that's on my team, or that I hire as an assistant, I don't know how to not mentor them and just have them just go about and do their job and go home. And I think that just comes from being exposed to that 24 seven my entire life, that that's just what you do. So I think you've probably answered the next two questions already. But again, for the sake of anybody listening that is keeping track and wants to do the same exercise. The next question is far off the beaten path where we started, which is what career path or paths have you followed since your first one, you've clearly covered that, and then some, and I think you are already covered? And if we haven't, you can go a little bit deeper into it. But the next question is, what do you love? Or did you love the most about your career? And I think you covered that. But is there anything else that you'd want to add? Before we move on to the next one?

[47:31] Jane Arnold: Oh, the people, the people that I met, I was very again, very, very fortunate that it was this big transition time in the industry of banking, because they really didn't know much about what to do with me. One of the things that I was good at, actually very good at was public speaking, and taking difficult and complex topics, like, for instance, was County's marital property law, which is similar to the property Bob, for instance, in California. And one of the gigantic tax laws that went through while I was in the bank, and the future of employee benefits, talk about excitement. And they hand it to me, and they'd say, here, this is what we're going to do, we're going to invite all of our, you know, upscale customers, and you're going to explain this and you're going to answer questions. Well, the first time about Scared me to death for about five minutes. And I thought I can do that. And I did. And it was very successful. And I had a wonderful time with these people. The tax law wasn't quite as exciting. But the tag the questions were very exciting. And it was very interesting. And the same was true with a bully fitter, and the future of employee benefits, which turned out to be to me, these are exciting to me to be the most interesting of the mall. And I was pretty, I look back now and when I talked about and I was pretty on topic about the future and what was coming, which was also nice. But the people I ended up in the working mostly with the people at the highest level in the bank. And in fact, once for another talk I was giving, I picked out maybe 20 of the people I thought were the most gifted, and I actually sent them a questionnaire about being gifted and what was it like to grow up gifted? And what was it like you know, in their careers, and so forth, which of course card caused a little bit of a stir in the bank talk about being a rebel and have lots of very interesting conversations and lots of the ideas I had had about how these people grew up and what they felt, how they worked for them. So I was in a position through no gifts of my own. They just hired me because they thought they needed somebody and they got on that's for sure. And it was just it. variables, absolutely where it was when we came up here to the north woods. That all just disappeared within a year. And that was very difficult to lose to lose all of that. But

[50:12] Zack Arnold: I find this surprising and ironic, because I wouldn't have even guessed that. And the reason I say that it's another area that I see so much similarity is that you immediately knew the answer was the people. And if I think about what I enjoy doing the fact that I would guess that just through osmosis, I must have either inherited this from you or otherwise, but I didn't can't it's not like you never consciously taught me this. But I too, am also a fairly natural public speaker. But listening to both of us talk about it, and the fact that I now specialize in helping people build their network and build relationships and pursue the work that they want, you would just assume that you and I are people, persons. And it couldn't be any further from the truth because there's only two people on the planet that I know that are more introverted than me. And that would be my brother. And you exactly which I find so ironic given the you immediately went to it was working with the people that was the most rewarding part of the process. Because man, the three of us together, we're as introverted and antisocial as you can possibly get. Yeah, I would say, Kate, maybe not quite so much. She's got a little bit more extraversion inner. She's got some of it, but you look up introvert family in the dictionary, and there's our family picture.

[51:21] Jane Arnold: Yep. Yep, that's absolutely true. And we have talked about this. And your brother john and I have talked about this, too. I mean, the cold, the whole, his whole COVID thing of stay home? No, oh, my God, that's what I was trying to hear my entire life, you know, stay home, dad, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, we don't have to get on buses or airplanes acceptable. See you, all of these things. Just stay put and kind of do what you want. Because you're fortunate enough to be able to do that. And this, you know, losing all this all of a sudden, and all these happy looking people in their swimming suits and stuff running around. I'm thinking, Oh, dear God, protect me from that. Not that they're bad people, or there's anything wrong with that they're not and there's nothing wrong with it, just that for me,

[52:08] Zack Arnold: I'm having the exact same experience right now. And to preface it, I wouldn't wish everything that's happened on the world ever again. And I'm glad that people are going back to work and we're able to have the freedoms to go out to grab food again, or whatever it might be. But there's a big part of me that's like, God, I missed there not being any traffic, and never having to come up with an excuse to not go to some event or meet with somebody or whatever like it was, it was nice that just from from a very selfish and personal perspective, I very much enjoyed the the solitude and nothing going on whatsoever. And just finding a way to manage from home. And I'm already finding myself more exhausted from now having to deal with more of the social things and traveling around more. And like as, as we'll we'll give away, you and I have our Sunday conversations every Sunday when I drive back from my Sunday ninja workouts. And those conversations have gotten a lot longer, which is a good thing. But it's also because I'm stuck in traffic a lot more. So there's, there's there's a part of me that kind of misses some of the perks of the pandemic. And I know that I'm not alone, and I'm probably getting a lot of very furious head nods from listeners, because I think a lot of them, probably follow me because I too, am a creative introvert and just kind of want to do my thing and be left alone. And there were certain parts of the pandemic that were kind of relaxing and kind of reboot. So my hope is that at some point, we can find a middle ground. And I think that we're rushing back to quote unquote, what normal was beforehand, without really rethinking how we want to redefine that term. But anyway, that's a whole nother soapbox that I didn't bring into the room today. So I'm not going to get on it. But going back to these questions, I think, again, you've maybe alluded to this one, but I want to dive a little bit deeper into it, because I think it's important for anybody to be able to answer this question of themselves. So this is going to be a lesson for not just the two of us. But I think for anybody else listening and it's a hard question to answer about yourself. But for you, I don't think it's going to be hard for other people, it can be difficult, what makes you successful? Or what made you successful at what you do? What are the core things about you that made you successful?

[54:11] Jane Arnold: I think the first was, believe it or not my sense of humor. It's like they talk about gamers, I think in sports, you know, the soul, someone can sculpt Well, I think our own Aaron Rodgers is probably an example of that. He when he gets on the field, he plays football, whether he likes it or likes the Packers or anything. He does his job, I think because he probably loves doing that job. So he's a he's a gamer. And I was in the sense that I could get up and talk to anybody. Talk about a subject, hopefully something I knew something about, and make it interesting and humorous. As I said, believe it or not, if those topics were not humorous any one of them. There were many elders. So my sense of humor Sir one, and the other was genuinely enjoying the conversations with individuals, which is what I meant about the people in that group. I didn't mean no 13,000 people who cared, I meant the people I was fortunate enough to be involved with 99.9% of the time, we're very open, there was very little political stuff, because we were just a group within the great big group. And when we were together, we were free to do that. And you and I've spent many years talking about peer groups, finding your peer group and being comfortable. And it's very difficult depending on you know, what strengths you have, and what weaknesses either literal or figurative. And in that group, I found my peer group is the only one I've ever found. But it was wonderful. As long as it lasted, it was absolutely wonderful. So that made a difference. But I think my, my own my sense of humor even found that peer group for me, so I think that was that was the thing. I was once asked by our band director when I was in high school, to give the narration of the program they were doing of our band trip to New York City for the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, where By the way, I was asked to follow to carry the United States flag, the good old, red, white, and blue. And I thought that was a great honor. But the joke was on me, they gave their to the person who really couldn't do anything else, couldn't play an instrument well enough to you know, really tutor her anything or carry a drum. And certainly not throw wooden rifles around in the air coming down, you know, the streets in New York City. So I got to carry the American flag in the app. But I was asked them to do this narration I said, Well, where's the script? And the director said, we don't have one, he's still with you. We don't need one. He said, you'll get up there in the first slide with him up, and he said, you're gonna say something, it's gonna be wonderful. Everybody's gonna laugh and applaud, well, we'll have a couple hours to be terrific. And I did. And it was my mother sat there like this pretty much my her hand over her eyes, pretty much the whole time, worried that I might, you know, say or do something to my father was just all about loving. So that was a gift that has always given me more than I could even imagine ever in my life still does. Matter of fact, I recommend a sense of humor,

[57:35] Zack Arnold: yes, sense of humor. But I also think the ability, this is a big one that you've touched on. And I think I want to extract a little bit more, because I think it's, if I can find one in I spent years trying to figure this out. But what is it that makes me successful at what I do, and being able to tell that story succinctly so I can attract other people that either need that service, or that are similar to find a peer group. And I think what I have discovered is probably something that comes from you, based on what you said about taking these complex topics, and being able to extemporaneously speak about topics and make it sound natural and conversational, and kind of involve more people, I would say that the skill I have comes from you to take something very complex, and break it down into very simple, understandable pieces. And again, it's not like you sat me down and tutored me on how to do that. It's just one of those things that either happens genetically or happens via osmosis. But I don't think it's any surprise that that's why I gravitated towards being an editor. Because being an editor, you take all of this complex information that's seemingly random, and you have to distill it down to the essence of whatever that story is. And you are doing the same thing, but with either very difficult concepts, or you're doing it with people. And now that's what I do. It was when I had come to the realization fairly recently, I was terrified of making this career transition. Because I'm thinking I have to start all over. I can't use all of the the background and the skills that I have as an editor and the technology and the workflow like I'm starting from zero and then I realized, no, I'm not, I can still use my ability to break down something complex. To simplify it only the difference is instead of editing video material together, I'm helping people edit their own stories together, listening to all the different parts of their story and helping them break it down and figure out what is it that you want your story to be next. And again, it sounds like a lot of that probably comes from a combination of learning how to be a teacher and learning how to break things down from complex to simple, with a little bit of a sense of humor.

[59:33] Jane Arnold: Yep, I think that's the recipe. I was once asked to be out of board of directors of a very large organization was kind of to this friend of mine was the president of the board. And I said, Judy, why in the world do you want me and in fact, I had been I was a little kid. I had been thrown out of the organization. Because the uniforms didn't fit this girl who had matured early, the buttons didn't close across My tap, refused to wear it and got out the door. I went. And I said, What in the world do you want me for? She said, you're the perfect board member. She said, You sit and listen, she said, I watched you that watched you the last several years. She said, You sit and you listen, and you listen to everything, everybody says that we get to a point in the meeting, and suddenly you speak up, and you pull it all together, you extract the single threads that really are meaningful, you put them together, and you give the sales pitch for whatever it is that we want the board to do. And she said, then they all vote yes, she's this, she's, that's why I want you She said, don't do one single thing different than you've done all along. You know, just pay attention to the topics that you might not know about well, and don't tell them you got thrown out, you know, when you were nine years old, or whatever it was, she said that that's what I want you for us. And I want you to sit there, listen, draw the important threads, pull them together. And given she said, the sales pitches you give are very subtle. And she said they're beautifully structured with all of the points and all of the topics and our goals and our dreams for the future. Just two that said, you'll be fine. And we went from not having the building that she wanted to build to get in the building was one meeting when she said, See. That's why why did you before she said, that's what I wanted to do for sure. If you never want to come to another meeting, don't. You're done. You've scraped surface. Perfect.

[1:01:34] Zack Arnold: It's interesting, because this isn't even something that I'm conscious of, if somebody asked me, How do I do it, I couldn't tell them. But this is what happens in every single session that I do with somebody where they just start talking, they will sometimes ramble all over the place and tell six different stories. And I'll summarize it for them in about 30 to 60 seconds and they listen to it. They're like, Oh, my God, that makes so much sense. And then I said, based on everything, you just said X, Y and Z, what can we do next to make a change, and they're like, it never even occurred to me. But this is exactly what I need to do next. And when people have said that, like, I don't know how you can zero in so quickly on the one thing that's driving me crazy that I don't even know that I don't know. And I talk to you for 20 minutes and you find it. I couldn't tell them how I do that. It's just it's something that's just natural. But now I have a better idea of where that came from. Because if somebody had asked me, I wouldn't have even known that that was really a skill that you had, because we've something we've never talked about before. But again, just through osmosis or genetics, or who knows what it is. But that's that's really interesting to me that, that ultimately that that ability is probably what led to your success. And conversely, it's probably what is led to mine. So that's interesting.

[1:02:45] Jane Arnold: Yep. I couldn't tell anybody either. cannot tell you for a million years. I

[1:02:49] Zack Arnold: haven't Yeah, I couldn't teach it.

[1:02:50] Jane Arnold: No, I think it's one of those things that simply can't be taught. I don't there are things that can't be taught. And I think that's one of them. No, I think you can be a wonderful cello teacher. And you end up with yo yo Ma. Where do you go with Yo, Yo, man, it's all in his head. It's all in his heart. You may give them some suggestions about fingering or, you know, moving the cello into two on either side as your shoulder but what do you do? It's there. And that was the that was the whole thing that the band director realized, just stand up, click on the slide, and it just all comes out?

[1:03:29] Zack Arnold: Well, speaking of this idea of of things you can't be taught. Now I want to transition a little bit to another question. That's about the things that you can be taught by lessons that you never really asked for. So the question is, what do you believe about yourself that has helped you endure difficult times? And what is the most difficult experience? You remember that taught you this lesson?

[1:03:54] Jane Arnold: That's a great question.

[1:03:56] Zack Arnold: Yeah, this is a heavy one. This is a really good one.

[1:03:58] Jane Arnold: Mostly, I failed. I think most of those lessons at least for a time, at least, you know, maturity and maybe maybe more examples of those lessons came along and I finally got Oh, yeah, yeah. I think probably, I'm, I'm flicking back to the lessons that come along with losing your parents like we did. There are lessons there and particularly what I talked about my mother hadn't said about yourself and about her wife quietly to herself, and to that was certainly a big and then I think basically it actually does as I think about it now it does boil down to people and how you treat them and how are they valuable? Is there really a value to people? There certainly was for my father, and there wasn't a lot for my mother and probably been very unfair to her but I I don't I don't think completely. One of the comments that she also made quite frequently was she was a teacher in the Chicago Public Schools in the immigrant schools. And she liked that. And I asked her sister, why do you Why do you do that you could teach other places. And she said, Well, she said, You never have any trouble with the kids. I said, Well, how could that be? She said, she could just grab the time and the mother or the father, somehow and mysteriously, and she wing said, it's all taken tall, taken care of when the father comes home from work. She said, I never had problems with the kid twice. And I never have in all the years I taught, and I thought that was kind of interesting. That's what teaching mentor her was, she could just, you know, collect your money and travel and buy beautiful clothes, and so forth. So I think it was learning, learning that very late in life, to have a greater deal of empathy, if it's having had none to begin with. So we're very little, having a great deal more. And just valuing different people for who they were. I grew up in a white bread, white, everything suburb of the City of Milwaukee. And my whole life we were I said, well, we're quick. We're we live in a cookie cutter world. That was my, we just were, and we still are, I have a group of girlfriends. Now. We're all in our late 70s. We all graduated from high school the same year together. And we're still the group to look at, but we're very different in what we've learned in what we do. And I think that was a great learning experience that took actually moving into the farm to get a lot of fight. I honestly can't differ different exposures. And I think I think all of that was a big help. But it took some learning. It took some learning and some listening. And some, you know, thinking about it. Is this right? Is this absolutely true. And of course it is.

[1:07:06] Zack Arnold: Before closing up today's show, I would love to ask for just a couple additional minutes of your time and attention to introduce you to one of my new favorite products created by my good friend Kit Perkins, who you may recognize as creator of the Topomat, here's a brief excerpt from a recent interview that I did with Ergodriven co founder and CEO Kit Perkins, talking about his latest product, New Standard Whole Protein

[1:07:31] Kit Perkins: I'm into health and fitness generally, but I want it to be simple and straightforward. About a year, year and a half ago, I started adding collagen into my protein shakes. And man, the benefits were like more dramatic than any supplement I've ever seen. So I thought if I can just get this down to coming out of one jar, and it's ingredients that I know I can trust, and you just put it in water. And you don't have to think about it.

[1:07:50] Zack Arnold: When people think of protein powders they think, well, I don't want to get big and bulky. And that's not what this is about. To me this is about repair.

[1:07:57] Kit Perkins: So big part of what we're talking about here is you are what you eat. Your body is constantly repairing and rebuilding and the only stuff it can use to repair and rebuild is what you've been eating. Unfortunately, as the years have gone by everyday getting out of bed, it's like you know, two or three creeks and pops in the first couple steps and that I thought you just sort of live with now. But yeah, when starting the collagen daily or near daily, it's just gone. So for us job 1A here was make sure it's high quality, and that's grass fed 100% pasture raised cows. And then the second thing if you're actually going to do it every day, it needs to be simple, it needs to taste good.

[1:08:30] Zack Arnold: Well my goal is that for anybody that is a creative professional like myself that's stuck in front of a computer. Number one, they're doing it standing on a Topomat. Number two, they've got a glass of New Standard Protein next to them so they can just fuel their body fuel their brain. So you and I, my friend, one edit station at a time are going to change the world

[1:08:48] Kit Perkins: and even better for your listeners with code optimize on either a one time purchase for that first, Subscribe and Save order 50% off. So if you do that, Subscribe and Save that's 20% off and 50% off with code optimize it's a fantastic deal.

[1:09:03] Zack Arnold: If you're looking for a simple and affordable way to stay energetic, focused and alleviate the chronic aches and pains that come from living at your computer. I recommend New Standard Whole protein because it's sourced from high quality ingredients that I trust and it tastes great. To place your first order visit zackarnold.com/newstandard and use the code optimize for 50% off your first order.

Thank you for listening to part one of this two part interview with my mom. Don't forget to listen to part two when it releases this Thursday to access the show notes for this and all previous episodes as well as to subscribe so you don't miss future interviews just like this one, please visit zackarnold.com/ podcast. And a special thanks to our sponsors Evercast and Ergodriven for making today's interview possible. To learn more about how to collaborate remotely without missing a frame and to get your real time demo of Evercast in action visit zackarnold.com/evercast. And to learn more about Ergodriven and my favorite product for standing workstations the Topomat, visit zackarnold.com/topo, that's t o p o and to learn more about Ergodriven and their brand new product that I'm super excited about New Standard Whole Protein, visit zackarnold.com/newstandard. Thank you for listening, stay safe, healthy and sane and be well.

Episode Credits

This episode was edited by Curtis Fritsch, and the show notes were prepared by Debby Germino and published by Glen McNiel.

The original music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Joe Trapanese (who is quite possibly one of the most talented composers on the face of the planet).