Useful Links

• Dan & Kanen at Premiere Pro World Conference
• Shakeology

About Guest

• Kanen Flowers
• Dan Bérubé

Transcript

Zack Arnold: Hello and welcome to the Fitness in Post podcast. Today I have Kanen Flowers and Dan Berube, who are two original members of my test group. So, hello, gentlemen.

Kanen Flowers: Hey. Hello

Dan Bérubé: There.

Zack Arnold: That was enthusiastic, Canaan.

Kanen Flowers: I, you know, I like to try and met out meat out whatever the word

Zack Arnold: Is. Yeah, meta out

Kanen Flowers: Meta out. I like to try meta out.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, no, that’s that’s fine. That’s that’s so your personality. So that’s actually that’s actually a really good place to start talking about you know the whole the whole meta side of things because that’s really where I want to go today. I don’t have much of an agenda. The the genesis of this podcast comes from a conversation that you and I, Kanen, had while we were at the Adobe Premiere Pro World Conference last week, and we were just talking in general about you know fitness in post and where it started and where it’s come now and where it’s going to go, and you had talked to me specifically about the differences that it’s making for you, and you had a very specific response to it. So what I want to do is just talk about that conversation, and also remind people that you have not been on this show since we introduced everybody at week zero, and we’re now a week away from being done with our test group. So just talk to me about your story over the course of the last 11 or 12 weeks, and just kind of reiterate what we talked about in our private conversation in San Jose.

Kanen Flowers: So one really interesting thing, right? We first of all we have a fantastic photo of the three of us from the Premiere Pro World conference.

Dan Bérubé: Yes, I thought they were very good at promoting Premiere Pro World and making sure that people knew who was there.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, I think, and I

Dan Bérubé: Love that picture. I was hoping we’d get a picture together, the three of

Kanen Flowers: Us. Yeah, I love it too. I tell you, it’s a funny thing though, because if you had that same photo, not Zack, because he’s you know svelte and amazing as always, but if you take take if you if you use one of the Adobe products and you actually remove Zack from that photo, and it’s just the two of us. And you take a look at the same photo last year, around the same time. I think it would look like a.

Dan Bérubé: There would be more pounds there.

Kanen Flowers: I think it’s not just I. Well, that’s true, right? There would be more the the gross volume would be greater. That’s certainly true. But I think the other thing that’s different about it is I think that both of us look a lot happier in the world than we did. I

Dan Bérubé: Would, I would not have the same smile in a picture last year that I would have today. I’ll tell you that.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I I could not agree with that more because you two I don’t see very often in person, so I have the benefit of having that three or four months and being like, whoa, I haven’t seen you in person for a while. Whereas other members of my test group, I see almost every day, and it’s like meeting different people. You know, you just you feel a different energy. There’s a different presence, and that’s that’s it’s so cool to to hear that from both of you to know that this program has really helped you just find that that feeling that you have.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, I totally agree. I think when you say meta too, that’s that’s I want to talk as much as you will let us about fitness in post and the way that it’s changed me, and not just the way that I’ve lost weight. I mean, because I certainly I think it’s true, Dan. You we’ve both lost a tremendous amount of weight.

Dan Bérubé: Yeah, I I I’m very much on the same wavelength, and I really am happy that we’re actually having this conversation because I’m on vacation this week, and I’m connecting with nature, and that has a lot to do with wellness. And we can talk about lots of things tonight, and how they fit into your lives, and the importance of just standing and looking up at the stars, or or just taking that sun in, or walking in in paths on the mountains that Henry David Thoreau used to walk in. Talk about that.

Kanen Flowers: I had a similar issue this weekend. I had a friend come in from out of town who had never been to San Francisco, and I did some of the sort of touristy things that you might do. I went to Pier 39 and I went to all these places. And if you had asked me three months ago, hey, you have a friend coming into town. What should they do in San Francisco? I think I would have avoided every possible in every way that I could have. I would have avoided going to places like Pier 39 or you know walking along the Embarcadero or or I I don’t know. It’s it’s a funny thing. I think I I think one of the things I’m a lot more open to is just you know that’s sort of the thing I’ve talked about a few times which is that that Buddhist beginner’s mind where you you can see something fresh or from a fresh perspective but boy you really have to be open to be able to do that and I think in order to do that you have to be happy with who you are where you are what you’re doing in your life, and it’s amazing to me. It’s just fascinating to me how, no matter how much success we have in our lives, that success doesn’t seem to have any material impact on my happiness. I know that sounds crazy.

Zack Arnold: It’s the opposite of crazy. It’s one of the sanest realizations that any. Person can come to. It’s so funny you brought that up today because I just posted a picture this morning. It was a great quote that I found from Jim Carrey of all people, and he said, “I really wish that everybody in the world could get everything they want and become rich and famous, so they realize that it’s not the way to become happy. And I thought that was it was a really interesting quote because he’s you know, he’s he’s bipolar. He’s known publicly that that he’s bipolar, and he can be. You know, he’s he’s been miserable for a lot of his life. And I mean, you’d think the guy has everything, but it has nothing to do with material possessions.

Dan Bérubé: He’s been through that door, and has a larger awareness of what was really important in life. And I think some of his best days ahead are maybe sharing more of of quotes or experiences like that. You know, I think that’s important. You know, everything that we’re getting out of Fitness in Post, you know, we can share similar experiences like that. And yeah,

Zack Arnold: Well, the the the thing that the key word that you really brought up to me, Canaan, was the word awareness, because Fitness in Post. There are a lot of moving parts to Fitness in Post in the program, and I’m aware that it can be very overwhelming. But you found a brilliant way to kind of distill it to the essence of what it is. So just talk about the idea of awareness,

Kanen Flowers: Right? So when I yeah when I first sat down and started looking at the yeah, I mean I was in the test group, and then and then there’s the the next group. I’m not sure the the non-test group. So I kind of feel like we were alpha and they’re beta, and you know we’re getting to the point where we might be a gold master or release, right? Because there’s you know there are so many moving parts. So I remember you know the and you were trying to figure some of this out in the test group, and then certainly in this group as well. But I remember thinking, you know, as I came in, you know, I tried to like close my eyes and then open them and then look at all of the different components to this. And I started looking at it and thinking, okay, you’ve got Shakeology, you’ve got Beachbody, you’ve got P90X, you’ve got Fitbit, you’ve got the you know Fitbit tracker, you’ve got you know you’re tracking your food. It’s just like all this stuff, right? And I realized if I sat down and went through, if I did every single thing that you’re suggesting, I basically would have to stop doing anything else because I don’t move quickly through that world. Like entering in calories and shit that I eat and all of this other stuff is impossible for me. It takes me, it would take me two hours to just you know figure it out because I don’t, I’m not, I don’t do it at the time when I eat the food, right? And so I started getting really frustrated, like really frustrated with this idea that oh my gosh, there’s all this stuff, and it’s just like, you know, I already have enough drama, and you know, in my surroundings, right? Like I’ve got a team of people that I’m constantly managing. I have all of these things I have to figure out. I’m constantly traveling. I’m constantly speaking. My schedule is a nightmare. And actually, to that point, as as you know, this is the first time I’ve been in my house in San Francisco, ever. Like I, you know, I left Portland, went to NAB, moved from Portland to San Francisco. I saw the house. The stuff got moved in while I was gone, and then I am just now here. And this is this the first day that I actually slept in my bed was july 19, which was at this point three days ago. So, what I can’t add to all of that madness is just a collection of other things that I have to manage. So, I started thinking about like for me, what is the thing that really matters? And the thing that really matters to me is, and Dan, you and I talked about this a lot. The Fitbit around your wrist-it’s like the way to think of it. To me, is like a totem or a piece of string. It’s a reminder of a rubber band. There you go. You need to be aware. You know, it’s life meditation, right? You’re aware at every moment that there is this thing, and that thing-all it does is tell you hey maybe you ought to get up maybe you ought to take a few steps maybe you ought to not eat that you know frosted you know eclair right maybe and you know make a better choice right and because it’s on your wrist you’re constantly seeing it now I chose I didn’t want to have to charge a bunch of other crap so I charged. I chose instead of getting of using the Fitbit, I actually got rid of the Fitbit, and I have an iPhone 5s, which has the the motion tracker built into it. And so for me, it’s actually even more sinister because every time my phone vibrates, every time I put my phone on the table, every time I see my phone, I have that awareness. I’m thinking, oh, I should be walking. I should be strengthening my core, like we talked about, Zack.

Kanen Flowers: I should be not eating that cheeseburger, even though it sounds absolutely delicious. So I think that’s when we say awareness. I think that’s what I meant. Is there’s a there’s a constant conscious. And sometimes subconscious because it’s you know something you wear something you hold or something you have with you, you know reminder to just try and be a little bit better, and that that strangely just that awareness has made all the difference in the world to me.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and one one thing that I really take from that that I love is that with all the different things that I’m offering in the program, whether it’s supplements or leaderboards or workout programs, whatever it is, you’ve really taken the minimalist approach to it, and you’re still getting what I would say not not little changes. I would say you’ve had fairly profound changes in just the the trajectory of your life in general from three months ago when this started. So, so talk to me about one of the the fairly big changes that happened that you attributed specifically to being part of this program.

Kanen Flowers: Well, I mean, something was super interesting. So, I’ve talked a little bit. I think I talked about this on the intro show where we talked about fitness in post. You know, last year I was diagnosed with osteomyelitis, which is a bone marrow infection, and as a result of that, you know, I had a couple of choices. One of them was I could have a blood transfusion along with a regimen of antibiotics and steroids, which they said would, you know, would basically destroy my system, and then my system would have to build back up. Or I could have had a bone marrow transplant. There was a third option, which is I could have let it go untreated and died. I chose not to do that.

Zack Arnold: So there’s that, right?

Kanen Flowers: I also chose not to do the bone marrow transplant, but as a result, this the strong regimen of steroids and antibiotics actually it caused a lot of failure in my internal organs and a lot of fatigue. So I had adrenal fatigue and all of these things, and as a result of of that kind of fatigue, I went from so I’m a I’m a I’m a big guy since that I’m six foot one and a half, and you know I have I’ve good you know Viking stock so my skeleton probably weighs 145 pounds without anything around it. I mean I’m a big guy, so for me, I started out at I think 195 pounds, and then over the course of six months, after all of the steroids and antibiotics and things, I ballooned up to I think I hit 240 at my peak, which is it’s it’s on the on the one hand it’s funny because it sounds like just the most ridiculous amount of weight in the world, but on the other thing, on the other hand, I think because I’m such a big guy, I kind of hit it well. So when I saw you in Los Angeles, for example, I was about 230-five 240 when we had that when we first started Fitness in Post, when we first had that salad together.

Zack Arnold: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh.

Kanen Flowers: So I mean, I know you can. I mean, you’re really good at guessing these kind of things, but most people would never have guessed that much weight on me.

Zack Arnold: And no, I would say that that you did hide it very well in your frame because I can usually judge somebody fairly closely and say, “Well, that’s probably your weight in this range, and I wouldn’t have guessed that high for you. So you you fooled even me.

Kanen Flowers: So I, you know, I was so I. It’s like Neo from the Matrix, right? I had this residual image of myself that every single time I saw myself in the mirror, I was like, “Who in the heck is that fat guy? You know, and right, Dan. Yeah, I just heard a yeah in the background. It’s like I can’t believe. I know I’m not the only person to do this, right? We all get older. We all have desk jobs, and so for me, the big part, the the first the first selling point of fitness in post is like, hey, I instead of being this like fat guy that I don’t like, you know, I can lose some weight, and and this seems like a really straightforward approach to doing that, as opposed to trying to you know find some weird diet or exercise like a fiend, or this seems like more of a lifestyle design choice, which is much more in in line with the kind of things I like to do.

Zack Arnold: I’m going to trademark that, by the way. Lifestyle design choice-that’s brilliant.

Kanen Flowers: I think I heard it somewhere. So I bet you know. In fact, Tim Ferriss probably already has it trademarked. He

Zack Arnold: Probably does. Yes,

Kanen Flowers: But it seemed like that to me, right? Like a lifestyle design choice. Like you just have to change three or four things and be consistent, and you’ll see results. And so I did that, right? Got into the test group, changed a couple things, decided I hated wearing a Fitbit. I just I’m not a jewelry guy, so I’m you know, but I have my phone on me all the time. And and unlike you, Zack, I understand that sometimes my phone is on the desk and it’s not counting steps. I don’t obsess about that. I miss 200 steps, you know.

Zack Arnold: Then you’re a stronger man than I because that drives me crazy. Like if if I forget, if I take it off to charge it, and I get up and walk to the bathroom and back, I’m like, ah, I just missed my 70-five steps. So well, you know me in numbers.

Dan Bérubé: 20 steps is 1/100 of a mile. See, and I didn’t even know that. So

Kanen Flowers: The the

Zack Arnold: Fact that Dan knows that just says that he’s on another level, even from me, because I didn’t know that.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, well, we can get it. Dan is on a completely different level, and we can definitely get to that. So. Here’s here’s what I was surprised to learn. So, as you know, I’ve had some, and I don’t want to go super into this on a public forum, but you know I’ve had some difficulty with a relationship in the last five six years. I’ve been kind of a curmudgeonly prick, and I’ve just been angry, unnecessarily angry, and and angry for reasons that I didn’t understand. And the thing is, not you know, some people are angry and they’re hostile toward the world. I don’t think I was ever that guy. I think I was angry with myself. And so the way that it manifested is, I would eat because I was unhappy, or I would gain weight because I was unhappy. Because when I’ve noticed, when I’m happy I lose weight, and when I’m sad, I gain weight. And some of that’s eating, and some of it’s just you know, when you’re happy, you metabolize better. I think there’s science behind that. Oh,

Zack Arnold: There absolutely is. When you’re unhappy, you’re producing more cortisol. You’re more stressed, and those stress hormones make it harder to just to lose weight. Like that, stress is one of the the main factors in gaining or losing weight. So there’s there’s plenty of science to back that up.

Kanen Flowers: And and so one of the things that I found, which was really interesting, is just by not freaking out, right? By putting myself on this you know this lifestyle design choice path, and not freaking out about like what an unhealthy you know fatty I had become, and how unhappy I was in this relationship, and how unhappy I was in these other places, by just kind of letting that go and saying, you know what, this-it’s so ridiculous, but this idea that like all I got to do is take another couple steps, right? That is the simplest thing in the world. It’s very, you know, and I’m, as you know, practicing Buddhist meditate. It’s so easy for me to be in the moment and go, okay, I’ll take 100 steps. 100 steps is so easy, and then it’s 200 and then it’s 300 and then pretty soon you’re not really thinking about how many steps you’re doing. You’re just thinking about I am stepping, and that you know the the Budd the Buddhists say that’s the way to enlightenment, and I actually believe it that just being present and having that awareness of of what you’re doing and where you are, you know, that sort of life meditation, right? That I think made a huge difference in my life.

Dan Bérubé: Sort of putting your hands by your side and accepting what’s going on, but you know, still able to do something about it. Yeah. And might I add, 200 steps is 1/10 of a mile. Thought I’d add that.

Zack Arnold: I don’t think I don’t think that math is right, Dan.

Dan Bérubé: Two like 2240 steps around there.

Zack Arnold: Right. Well, the good thing is this isn’t called math in post. It’s called fitness in post. I

Dan Bérubé: Failed in math. That’s why I went in filmmaking.

Zack Arnold: You and everybody else.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, because 20,000 like 20 to 20-2000 steps, depending on who you are, is is like almost 10 miles. You’re right in that neighborhood, so that makes sense. 2000 Well, I’m tall, so I think 2000 steps for me is about a mile.

Zack Arnold: Right, and 2000 steps for Natalie is like a 10th of a mile because she’s so tiny.

Kanen Flowers: So, and that’s the other thing I realized is I started looking at Natalie’s numbers and all these other numbers, and I started I started realizing, my God, I could get obsessed over all of this. But you have a person who is, you know, a foot shorter than me or whatever she is, and so she’s going to kick my butt when it comes to steps because she she basically takes for every one step I take, she takes at least one and a half, possibly two.

Zack Arnold: Exactly.

Kanen Flowers: And so I could get really obsessed with, okay, well, I had 10,000 steps and she had 12,000 I’ll never catch up to her, and so I’m just going to throw in the towel. But instead, I chose a different path, which is like you said, to just be aware of of that behavior. And and I feel like I’m not letting Dan talk enough, but I I do want to say that you know I would like to get back to this idea eventually of how it didn’t just change my health. I’m down to 218 right now, by the way.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, that’s that’s terrific.

Kanen Flowers: Which

Dan Bérubé: Is it’s been a great conversation to listen to about this. No, seriously, I think really I mean this is a good starting off point to hear what your what your perspective is, and so I mean thank you for sharing that because a lot of the things I didn’t even know about that you’re talking about there, so it adds depth to knowing you and knowing what you’re doing. I mean I was mentioning to Zack before we started this that the three of us actually are similar in many ways. We’re kind of noble. We like to achieve great things. You know, we like to bite off the whale. But I think that knowing that the most important thing that I get out of this-it’s very similar to you-is just understanding what wellness is and how that can improve your life, not just as you say, you know, thinking about how many steps am I getting in a day, but you know, getting out, you know, walking away and getting a new perspective and coming back. That’s probably the best advice you can give to an editor, because no one wants to edit tired. No one wants to edit with a stumbling block. Walk away from it and come back to it. But while you’re walking, go outside and look up, look up at at the sky. You know, you know, feel the surroundings around you. Even you know, okay. So you might be in a concrete jungle, but you know, there’s still something to be gained from you know just beauty

Kanen Flowers: Everywhere, right?

Dan Bérubé: Absolutely. There’s there’s there’s there’s meaning everywhere, and and so I I really think it’s important what you’re talking about.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I I couldn’t agree more. And the one of the the really important things that you had said to me when we were talking, and I’ve had so many people that have been in the groups or that have just gone on the website and they’re saying, oh hey, I’ve you know I’ve lost five pounds just because I’m doing this, or now I’ve you know my I need another belt loop, and like all these things really just they really motivate me to keep moving to keep building this thing larger because I know that it can affect more people. But you had said to me there was something very specific that you did because of this program, and it just gave me goosebumps because it’s one of the the it was one of the coolest things that I’d ever heard that this program could could change for somebody, and it has nothing to do with steps, nothing to do with the scale, and nothing to do with the way the clothes fit. So tell me a little bit about that life change.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, so I I went to Bossy Pug, and I mean, and that actually is another interesting thing. Is I I have I’m someone who has a tendency or who had a tendency you might find that lately I haven’t had this tendency at all but in the past I’d had a tendency to say no to a lot of people so hey you want to come present at Bossy Pog well I don’t really have time hey you want to speak you know Adobe would say you want to speak and I said no I don’t really have time because I I was sort of sort of caught up in my own I don’t know like I don’t want to. I don’t want to use too much hyperbole here, right? But but sort of just caught up in my own head, right? My own headspace of like, why am I unhappy? Why are doing my achievements not make me happy? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? And so because I started feeling better about myself, I started smiling more, and I started seeing more of the world and being more excited about being part of it, an interesting thing happened, right? Which is, I started saying yes, and so Dan, I came out and spoke at Bossy Pug, which was great. And then I was going to go to London from there, but I had there was a long, complicated reason why I ended up not going to London. But I thought, oh, I’ll go to New York, and I spent some time in New York, and I actually got some work there. And I met, you know, with with some folks at Adobe. It’s like all these great things started happening because I was just open to the idea that I was existing in the world and saying yes to these opportunities. And of course, as a result of that, I started feeling really good about myself. Right? Like, hey, I actually am a participant in this world, and you know, I have friends, and these people like me, and we all want each other to be better, and that sort of thing. So it turns out in Boston there was this person, you know, in the past version of me. So I’ll describe her in sort of general terms. So she’s in Russia, and then decided to go to work for it’s like an Estee Lauder type company, right? And so she was a marketing person at in London at one of these makeup places, and then decided that she didn’t really like the corporate world, so she wanted to pursue music, and so she got a full scholarship as you know somebody who doesn’t live in the United States, a full scholarship to the Berkeley School of Music, where she went and graduated with honors, and now lives and works in Boston for the for the Berkeley School of Music. What’s amazing about that is you think about all of that and you think, wow, what a really accomplished person. And so, in addition to that, Dan, what is she like? An inch and a half taller than I am?

Dan Bérubé: Yes, very. And that’s one of the things I love about this person because she is a tall person, but not awkward in any way. Very self-composed and and such a value to the creative community here in my area, at least.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah,

Dan Bérubé: I’m not thinking about it. Don’t worry about that.

Kanen Flowers: And so, so fabulous. And if you ever hear her play, it is like the heavens open up and an angel came down. I mean, she’s she’s the probably the most talented musician I’ve ever met in real life. And so I tell you all of those things not to just talk about this person, but to say that I, as a result of feeling great and this awareness and being happy with who I was and all that. I said to her, “Hey, how’d you like to go get a cup of coffee and just sort of get to know one another? Which is way beyond the scope of what I think I would have been able to personally accomplish. Accomplish is exactly the wrong word. It’s way beyond the scope of what I would have been able to do because I would have been both hesitant and I wouldn’t have had the self-confidence and I just would have thought there is no way that that person would ever want to go have a cup of coffee with me and so while I’d love to attribute 100% of that to fitness in post I think I attribute about 50% of that to fitness in post and about 50% of that to my willingness. Open up to the idea that just working the program, as you would say, Zack, is just making me a better person. It’s making me a happier, healthier person who’s more confident, and that’s pretty staggering.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, I think that if you’re gonna if you’re gonna bottle all that up and you’re gonna you know consider it a supplement, you basically just took courage in a bottle, like that’s you didn’t have that courage to do that. But once you develop the confidence in yourself and who you are in the world, you know you you start to make different choices like that. And that’s one thing that I’m really trying to emphasize with this is that it’s not about the diet programs and the exercise and you know those are all means to an end, usually the fad diet is the end. Like this, this is what you do, right? But with this, it’s just here all these different options you can choose whichever direction makes the most sense for you. There are means to an end to kind of help kickstart you to get where you want to go. But at the end of the day, this is about you becoming a different person and being more comfortable with who you are in the world, and that just moves you so much further forward than focusing on a scale or your end goal being about fitting into a pair of jeans, because you can you can change your entire career and your whole trajectory for the next 20 years just based on the way that you feel. Because if you’re run down and you’re low energy and you’re miserable and you’re depressed, you’re not going to go into work thinking, well, I’m really motivated and I want to get a promotion or I want to go work on this movie instead of that movie. Like you’re just going to sit there and be a slug and do the bare minimum to make your paycheck and go home, which is what a lot of people end up doing, myself included. I did that for years because I didn’t have the energy to be motivated to do anything else. But once you start becoming comfortable with who you are and gaining that confidence. All of a sudden, you make completely different life choices that can change the entire trajectory of the rest of your life, and that’s what I’m trying to emphasize so much. And that’s happening with you. And you, you know, of of the 25 different things that I’m offering in the program, you’re using two,

Kanen Flowers: Right? Well, yeah, and I guess I’m starting to do some of the P 25x I forget what they are. The little 25 minute exercises.

Zack Arnold: T 20 5t.

Kanen Flowers: 25 There you go. Uh

Dan Bérubé: Huh.

Kanen Flowers: I’m I’m starting to do some of those because you can actually do those in a hotel room with nothing but you and a good attitude.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, exactly. I love T 25 and it. I don’t want you to to you know think that it’s it’s super easy for people that are in shape. It kicks my ass every day, so it’s it can be very intimidating. But you know, just know that we’re all suffering through it equally.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, and I’m again, I’m not you know, I’m I’m not I’m not a regimented kind of person. I’ve never been. I mean, there’s a reason I did you know jiu kundo and tai chi instead of kung you know some like specific kung fu or or taekwondo, right? Because I just going through the same motions over and over and over and over and over again was not really my thing. I mean, there’s a reason I was a a skateboarder instead of

Zack Arnold: Like a football player.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, exactly. Because I just you know burpees. I just it just sounds like it sounds like some stuff that they would have given you know to people during the Spanish Inquisition to make them suffer, right? I need some variety in my exercise, so I’m not regimented in that way. But I you know I’m so I’m doing I’m definitely doing the steps. I’m definitely doing the awareness, which isn’t even part of it, but I think it it’s like the sort of overall thing that it’s the overall thing that you’re not saying, but it definitely is there. Yeah. And then I started I started doing Shakeology, which I’m not I’m still trying to get there with it. The I don’t know about you, Dan. The strawberry is not even on the radar for me, but the other ones are okay.

Zack Arnold: Really, the strawberry is my favorite.

Dan Bérubé: Yeah, I haven’t. I heard some good things about strawberry. I’ve I have not tried it yet. I’m sticking with the chocolate, not the vegan chocolate, but the regular chocolate one. And I have it. You know, I I actually have adopted it pretty pretty successfully, and I actually enjoy it.

Zack Arnold: Well, the big question is, what are you making it with? Because you can make a really really bad Shakeology.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, for me, I tried almond milk.

Zack Arnold: Uh huh. Did you do anything else with it?

Kanen Flowers: No.

Zack Arnold: Well, what I would say, do you like bananas?

Kanen Flowers: So so let’s. I yeah. In fact, I remember though. I just I just got back, so I don’t exactly have a cupboard full of things. So I was like, you know what? I have almond milk and some of these Shakeology packets, by the way, thank you.

Zack Arnold: Right.

Kanen Flowers: So I was thinking, all right, go ahead. You

Dan Bérubé: Probably have an amazing farmers market near you in San Francisco. Yeah,

Kanen Flowers: I’m in Dolores Heights. There’s like 10 of them. The question is, like, you know, was I ever here at the house at a time when a farmers market was open? And the answer is not until the weekend,

Dan Bérubé: But maybe now that you’ve sort of like going along with all this meta stuff, that you’ve retuned your internal frequency, that law of attraction has changed, and now you’re there’s you’re noticing different people in the world, or or different different things pop up in your life. That, because you’ve allowed that and you’ve accepted that to happen to you, and that’s part of sticking with it in this in a program like this. And I know a lot of this sounds very abstract, but it really does have a lot of meaning to me, and and and it’s and it’s happened to me.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, and I think you know that Dan, what you just said is exactly what I told Zack at Premiere Pro World. I said, you know, I feel like so when I was-I’ll tell you-it’s a short thing. But when I was nine years old, I remember thinking, “Oh my gosh, the world is amazing, and there’s so much opportunity, and I could like cry at how much opportunity there is, I’m so happy, and there’s no. I just can’t believe all the opportunity that I have in my life, and I and simultaneously I thought to myself, and why are all the adults around me so damn unhappy? Like like what am I missing that’s making me you know, it’s making me so happy? Am I just blind to it? And I’d forgotten about that. I’d completely forgotten that I ever felt that way. Because as an adult, things happen, things change. You get kind of sucked into the vortex of work and all of the, the what I’m sure he he didn’t say this, but if you were still around, what Nietzsche would call the the rat race. And for the first time, when I was in Boston, Dan, we talked about this. When I went to New York and then came back and hung out with you, for the first time, I I felt like, oh my gosh, there’s so much opportunity around me, and why is everyone else so angry and upset and and and happy? Like I felt that same feeling that I felt when I was nine, and that is all about the the changes in my lifestyle, right? I’m happier, healthier. I’m emotionally grounded. None of that has anything to do with nutrition. I’m waiting for Zack to jump in and tell me how wrong I am.

Zack Arnold: Oh, I was being polite.

Dan Bérubé: I think you might be wrong there. Yeah, not Zack, but Canaan. Yeah. No,

Zack Arnold: I, I, I could, I could send you 50 different links that would that would prove you wrong on that one. But what’s important is that this what you’re doing is working for you. Absolutely. If if you took the time and sat down and wanted to be regimented and wanted to sit down and make a program and figure out dietary changes, you would go further. But that’s not important. What is important is that the choices you’ve made so far have worked for you? So that that that’s what I care about. Not you have to do it my way, and my program is five steps, and you’re only doing two of them. You’re not really doing my program. Like I don’t care about that. The point is you’ve pulled the things out of it that work for you, and they’re working. And even though what you’re doing is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, it’s having major and profound effects on the way that you’re living your life. That’s what’s important. Not that you’re sticking to a specific program and me saying, “Well, I can’t call you a graduate because you didn’t do X, Y, and Z. Like that-that’s not what it’s about. So you know, but but tangentially, yes, it has a lot to do with diet and what you put in your body. So that’s my short answer.

Kanen Flowers: And I would also like to point out that you know, regardless of all of this emotional, you know, sort of hoopty conversation that I’m having, which some people might, might think sounds a little bit airy fairy, you know, I did also lose 24 pounds and and gained some fairly significant measure of strength,

Zack Arnold: And that’s quantifiable. That’s science. You can’t argue with that,

Kanen Flowers: And I can also lift someone that I could not lift before.

Zack Arnold: Well, there you go, and that’s even without doing any of the crazy fancy P90X type workouts.

Kanen Flowers: That’s right. Yeah, just imagine I would be a machine if I did all of that. I’d be Terminator,

Zack Arnold: And and that’s that’s my whole point is that you’ve made a choice to go to a certain level, which is totally working for you, but if you decide, you know what, I’m now feeling really good. I want to feel amazing. That opportunity is there for you too. So all the steps are in place, but you just go as far up the staircase as you want to go. But I really find that you just have to get on the staircase. You just have to go in the first step and say, “All right, I’m just going to try this one thing. This is all I have the energy to do right now, and then it pushes you a little bit further. Okay, I’ll try the second thing, and then you try the second, and then the third, and then the fourth, and you’re like, “All right, I’m just ready to like bust through walls and take on the world, you know. But that that’s a slow process. It took me years to go through that process to the point where I am now, where it’s just like whatever. I’ll jump in, do whatever I want to do. You know, just take on new things. But it took me years to get to that point. So it’s it’s a matter of taking small, gradual steps and realizing that the end goal is not losing X number of pounds over the next 60 or 90 days. The end goal is you know adding years to your life and feeling better for the entire duration that you’re alive, like that’s the end goal here. Like you said, you know, lifestyle design choice.

Dan Bérubé: Well, let’s face it: what you’re talking about and what Canaan’s talking about, what we’ve all been talking about, it’s part of our core, our inner core. If you can, you know, pay attention to that, then you’re only going to benefit from it in many ways that you may not be thinking about right now. But you know, the new new opportunities happen to you because you’re able to have a better internal core, if you will. When I was on that mountain tonight and today, and hiking, and and noticing that that slow and steady progress that we that you’ve just been talking about, you know, that I’ve been taking it slow and steady. My you know, my stabilizing muscles, my ability to stop on a dime and lift a leg and just hold it there and balance, and you know, there’s a lot of rocks in front of me on those on those trails. But just to be able to maneuver that and know that I’ve I’ve improved my core, my core strength, that is one of the for me is one of the biggest things of being part of this group, and something that I’ve been looking for, and that I’m really happy that it’s paid off. You know, this has been a big milestone day for me, to be honest with you. You know, if I didn’t hike anymore this week, I’d be fine. But you know, and just being able to, to like I said, walk away, you know, or or just tune into different, you know, it was when we were we were like 2,400 feet in the air, and it was so quiet, you could not hear anything. We could hear the sounds of sounds of our feet, you know, crunching pine needles, and the dirt was you know there was a lot of rocks that we were walking on, and in between those rocks were not dirt, but a lot of pine needles just packed in, and and just I wish everyone could understand that if you can just find time to to connect some of those a lot of those answers about creativity, about questions in your life, can be found. I could go on and on and talk about what I have to say. I know,

Kanen Flowers: Isn’t it? Isn’t it amazing how happy we are right now? And it’s and we and and I imagine to an outsider. I was just sitting there thinking. I mean, first of all, I I think we should stop apologizing, Dan. Right. Right.

Dan Bérubé: I agree.

Kanen Flowers: I mean, we’re happy, and you know what? That’s okay, and I think I think that’s really cool. I mean, I’m happier than I’ve been in a very long time. Zack, I know that you remember a long time ago when I first came back from Thailand. I started a podcast, which no one should listen to because it’s not who I am now. But I started a podcast called Life Zero, where I was just talking about eliminating the things in your life that you don’t need, and we had these we had these tenets, which were they’re not really rules, but these these sort of ideas for life zero. And it’s funny how I’m starting to think about that a lot more now, even though my life is 100 times more complicated than or 1000 times more complicated than it was then. But I’m not thinking about it because I’m thinking, oh, I should go back and eliminate all this crap I don’t need. Although I am kind of thinking that, I’m thinking about it more because that was a time when I was seriously happy. You know, I just spent over a year studying Buddhism in a temple in Thailand. You know, six weeks in the temple, six weeks out of it. I came back. I was like 168 pounds. It was like a 30-inch waist carved out of wood. I looked like Brad Pitt from Troy, and it was ridiculous, right? And I just, but but the it wasn’t just the physicality that made me happy. It was also there was an emotional and a mental side of it too. And it’s funny too because at that point I actually remember I had the the confidence to ask someone out that I think I would not have asked out prior to that. So I’m I’m feeling a lot of sort of like lessons that I’ve learned that I’m sort of not relearning, but they’re they’ve become solidified in my mind, or ideas that I had that are actually no longer ideas.

Zack Arnold: The two things that really resonated with me from what you guys just said are first, where you would you said we need to stop apologizing because that’s something that I’ve I’ve really dealt with and thought about a lot in the past, where I’ve been very fortunate in my career to have the opportunities that I’ve had so far, and very fortunate to feel that way that I am and to have the health that I do. And for years, I would try to hide that because I would always be around people that were tired and worn out and exhausted, and oh, my job is killing me, and oh, my producer’s doing this, and you know, I just kind of play the game of yeah, I know what you mean. I’m totally going through the same thing. But I was, it was kind of like I was hiding it because I didn’t want to be that guy that was like, “What are you talking about? I love my job and I feel fantastic. Like, you know, so I didn’t want to be that guy. But then I really learned that, you know, I was feeding into their energy rather than using my energy to bring them up. I was letting their energy bring me down, and I kind of just realized I need to stop doing that because that was bringing me down and it was exhausting me, and I said enough of that. I’m not going to apologize for the fact anymore that I’ve been successful, which is all my own doing. Because I came out here knowing nobody, so my success is my own doing, and the way that I feel is my own doing based on my own choices. And I just decided I need to stop apologizing for the fact that I feel. And you know I’m doing well, and I actually found that that opened up more relationships than it did turn people away because people gravitate towards that passion. And ever since I started developing this program, and I’ve started calling other companies, trying to bring on sponsors and bringing people to help me build it, like I had a conversation with one company last week, and he’s like, “Dude, like your passion is infectious. Like I’m going to talk to my management guys, and I’m going to see what we can do because this sounds awesome, you know. And then I give them the the numbers for the program, and you know, you’re talking about website views and podcast subscribers, and they’re minuscule. They’re nothing. But these sponsors don’t care because they feel the excitement and the passion behind this revolution. So just the whole idea of not having to apologize for who we are and how we feel, I think, is really profound. And the other thing I want to bring up that I think is so cool that the Dan said was, you know, the idea of strengthening your core, right? Where it’s about building your stabilizing muscles and being able to walk over rocks. But I feel like everything we’re talking about is strengthening our cores, but not our core, meaning the connective muscles between our hip flexors and our abs and our obliques, like our core as who we are as a human being. I feel that the conversation we’ve had today, like you said, Kanen, whether it’s airy fairy or whatever, I frankly I don’t care. People think that. Again, not apologizing, but I think that what we’re doing is we are strengthening our quote-unquote core, just the core being of who we are. And I think that you can see profound changes in your life once you start to do that.

Dan Bérubé: Absolutely, and a lot of it’s about looking into the light too, and seeing light at different times of the day. The only way you’re going to be able to do that is to get up and walk, but it’s true. And seeing light that that that that looks beautiful that you’ve seen. Oh, that’s seen that in a painting, in an oil painting, a Rembrandt or or Monet or whatever. Just you know, I’m a photographer, so I mean, just being that-that is important to me. That’s like my fuel to see that, and that is infectious and can spread to anything that you do with creativity. One

Zack Arnold: Of the most profound changes I’ve ever made, as far as the way that I feel during the day, which isn’t on the website, is something I’ve never talked about. But I have cut off all news sources of my life. I removed all of my bookmarks to Huffington Post and Drudge Report and Fox News and CNN. I have no news feeds. I don’t watch the news. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I I don’t look at Radar.com or TMZ. Those are out of my life. But I literally have no concept of what is going on in the world so much so, in fact, that apparently a few days ago a plane was shot down somewhere.

Dan Bérubé : Yep,

Zack Arnold: I knew nothing about it, and somebody was bringing up all these details. I’m like, “What plane? And they’re like, “Do you live under a rock? And I’m like, “Yes, and that’s by choice because those things stress me out. And there is a certain point where you could argue that you should be in touch with your world and know politics and be able to carry discussion because it affects the way that you live. And I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m not saying everybody should do this. I’m just saying that for me, this works because I used to be glued to all those bookmarks and all those RSS feeds. Like, oh, what’s the news that’s happened in the last five minutes? I have to know what’s happening in the next five minutes, and it drove me crazy, and it distracted me at work because it’s so easy to do that in front of your your edit suite, right? You get you lose focus, and you’re like, oh, all right, well, I’m just going to look at the news for 10 minutes, and that stresses you out and raises your cortisol levels. So I just deleted all of them, and I have no clue what is happening in the world, and I love

Kanen Flowers: It. I you know I’m finding that, and this is really tragic, but I think it’s the right choice for me. I did I did a similar thing, as you know, Zack. I’m finding that last week tonight with John Oliver, the HBO show, is like the best way to catch up on all this news.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, that’s a good idea because I’m I’m assuming it’s a fun way to do it too. That’s

Kanen Flowers: Right, right, because you actually get a laugh out of it, and and I don’t know. I mean, somehow he takes the most tragic things in the world and makes them funny.

Zack Arnold: And that’s certainly something that our world needs right now.

Kanen Flowers: You know, when when I was doing the the podcast that no one should listen to, I was talking a lot about getting rid of all of this stuff, and I had a an almost Machiavellian approach to it. Right, like get rid of it. It’s killing you. You know, it will kill you, or you will kill it. It’s a zero-sum game, and now I have this this sort of an interesting approach, which is more like I will never give up my iPhone. Right. Well, right now it’s my Fitbit, so I definitely won’t give it up. But what I’m trying to do is, you know, that awareness, right? That awareness extends beyond just the steps. It extends to like the device becomes a utilitarian tool and not a mechanism for me to communicate with people I care about, right? And that’s not to say Facebook is bad, and that’s not to say Twitter is bad, and that’s but it’s actually like the so the awareness extends beyond that. I was I was driving down ocean. I haven’t. There’s a friend of mine. Haven’t seen in a long time, and I really miss the hell out of him. And I was driving down Ocean Beach, which is in his neighborhood, and I texted him and said, “Hey, I’m in Ocean Beach. You know, how about a like an impromptu meeting, man? I haven’t seen you in a while. And he couldn’t see me because he was busy. He has a kid, but he responded back with, “You romantic. I love the impromptu invites. Keep them coming. You know, like I can’t make it, but but that you know the the way that you’re asking and the impromptu invites are just fantastic. So I ended up you know pulling over and sitting on a rock and just staring out into the ocean and getting a little bit of a sunburn, which I think is okay. Next time I’ll wear some SPF 4000 or whatever you need out here was such a beautiful day, but like three freaking amazing things came out of that. I got to take this beautiful drive with no destination in mind. I ended up near a friend who I who I thought about, and that made me happy. I texted them; they responded with just a this loving message back to me, and then and then my consolation prize was I got to sit on a bunch of rocks and look out into the ocean for an hour. None of that. Serendipity, right?

Dan Bérubé: Serendipity is a good thing to have in your life.

Kanen Flowers: Yeah, and it’s also being open to it, right? Because had this been as little as six months ago, I would not have gotten in the car. I would not have driven to Ocean Beach. I would not have texted him. I would not have sat on the. I wouldn’t have done any of those things because I would have just been myopically obsessed with. Oh, I got to get this other thing done. I got to build this company. I got to you know. It just it becomes you just you get. I’ll tell you, Zack. Here’s the thing that I realized. This is the big aha moment for me. If your life is empty, you find ways to fill it that are not healthy, like you work too much, or you spend too much time gossiping on Facebook, or you get involved in drama that you do not need to be involved in. You find friends that are not healthy for you. You find ways to fill the emptiness that would not exist had you just been happier with who you are. And I think the first step in being happier with who you are is actually to be aware of who you are and be aware of what you know your your body and and and your mind and your relationship with the world around you, and that’s steps and fitness, but it’s a lot more than that.

Zack Arnold: Thank you for listening to the Fitness in Post podcast. If you like this show, give us a rating and review on iTunes, and you will be eligible to win an individual effects package from Indie Essentials. And if this program inspired you, we are recruiting our next challenge group members. Visit fitnessandpost.com and click on the accountability menu tab to learn more. Thank you, and be well.

Dan Bérubé: I think the best thing to do is just keep doing what you’re doing, and you know you’ve got a good thing going, Zack Canaan. I’m really excited to be hearing what you’re talking about tonight, and if you know, to me, it’s it’s all about you know small, slow, steady changes, all you know. Like I said, I take have taken a lot of walks every day, and my because we can’t tell it

Zack Arnold: All, Dan. We can’t tell

Dan Bérubé: In my hometown in in Prospect Hill, right next to me, and that has paid off today. I’m so excited, and I can just visualize, which is important, which everyone should be able to take time to do, is to visualize. That’s very important in your life, but to visualize where you can be even a month from now, two months from now, three months from now. And for me, I’ve gotten my summer back. For those that have no summer, you know, to be able to, you get so much reap so much benefits from just simple walking, you know. I think Henry David Thoreau wrote a book on walking, you know. Read about that, because and and this is a whole nother conversation. But there’s just so much, you know, before CNN, before the internet, before TV, you know what did people do? They walked to each other and talked and shared stories, and it’s the communal thing. And if you can find that in your life, you’re a better person for it, and that’s I think is part of being well.

Episode Credits

This episode was edited by Kristin Martin (@KristinCMartin), show notes were written by Matt Christensen (@mchristensen), and the show was executive produced by Kanen Flowers (@iamkanen). We are a member of the THAT STUDIO podcast network.