Episode Highlights

• The toxicity in our current food supply and why were are micronutrient defficient
• The difference between macronutrients and micronutrients
• Why the Food Pyramid is a bad nutrition guide
• How much the science of nutrition has changed in the last 20 years
• How your diet cab actually deplete your micronutrients
• Improving the way we measure caloric intake when calories in vs. calories out doesn’t cut it
• The science behind high fat, low carb diets and how to do them properly
• Your comprehensive guide to healthy grocery shopping
• The dangers of food billboards and buzzword nutrition marketing
• Making sense of nutrition label information
• What it means when food is labeled “organic”
• Understanding how the toxins and pesticides in food end up in your system
• 3 foods you think are healthy that really aren’t
• The 4 major flaws in the multivitamin market
• The ABC’s of optimal supplementation
• Why Nutreínce is the holy grail of multivitamins
• How being micronutrient sufficient can literally reverse diseases like osteoporosis and macular degeneration

Useful Links

• Get your copy of Rich Food, Poor Food (the free version is no longer available, sorry)
• Calton Nutrition
• The ABC’s of Optimal Supplementation
• Buy Nutreínce
• Bulletproof Coffee Kit

About Guest

The Caltons are among the world’s leading experts on the topics of weight management, lifestyle medicine and micronutrient deficiency. Their high success rate working with adults and children to achieve sustainable weight loss and reverse health and disease conditions has made their consultancy highly sought after by celebrities, athletes and top corporate executives around the world. It is their belief that becoming micronutrient sufficient is the first step towards preventing and reversing many of today’s most prevalent health conditions and diseases.

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Transcript

Zack Arnold: Hello,

Mira Calton: Hello!

Zack Arnold: Hey, how are you guys?

Mira Calton: We are doing very well. How are you today?

Zack Arnold: I’m great. I know you guys have never talked to me, but through all your videos and your book, I really feel like I kind of know you guys. So, I’m very excited about this. So, what I want to do.. then I just want to jump right in. First of all, can you guys just go ahead and introduce yourselves very briefly? Just talk a little bit about what you guys do in general, because it’s kind of a unique.. I don’t even want to say niche anymore, because this industry has just exploded, but what specifically do you guys focus in? Because that’s what I’m so interested in today, is that intense focus that you have in one area.

Jayson Calton: So, like you said, we’re kind of the micronutrient people, and you alluded to the fact that in the past this was kind of a niche in the nutrition world, right? So, when people talk about nutrition, they talk about diets and what kind of food should you eat, and carbs and fats and proteins and all that, and we’ll talk about this later on. All that’s on the macronutrient side. Where are the micronutrient side? So we’re things like vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, amino acids. So what we try to do is teach health-conscious consumers the importance of reaching something called micronutrient sufficiency through their diet, their lifestyle, and proper supplementation, so that they can live extraordinary lives, which is ultimately what everybody wants to do.

Zack Arnold: Now, let’s just go ahead and let’s start. I just want to go right to the beginning, and the beginning is I literally know nothing about food and what to put in my body, and you just said these two scary words: macronutrients and micronutrients. So, let’s just start with the big ones. What are macronutrients, and why should I care? Because all I know about is the standard American diet and the food pyramid. So, let’s just start there.

Mira Calton: Well, let’s go back even a step further than that. Let’s just say, why the heck are we eating food in the first place? What is its function? Well, food actually has a lot of functions. It’s supposed to give you enough energy to actually do well during your day, to do all the tasks you need to do, to go to work and be able to work out if you want, and you need energy, but it also has something else that food is supposed to supply, and it’s also supposed to supply you with the ability to perform the bodily functions that need to happen throughout the entire day, has to make your brain work clearly, you have to be able to contract your muscles to breathe all of those other things, so those are the real reasons that you eat, and that’s what this is, the separation between macronutrients and micronutrients. So, none of the words are scary. Macronutrients are your fats, your carbohydrates, and your proteins. So, that’s the larger amount of food, meaning macro, that’s what that’s referring to. Those are in big amounts in your foods. Now, on the other hand, there’s micronutrients, and they’re in much smaller amounts in your food, meaning micro, and that’s going to be divided into four specific parts. There are four types of essential micronutrients, and those are the things that make all your bodily. Functions happen, so you can eat as many macronutrients as you want, but your body doesn’t know what to do with them if the micronutrients aren’t there, and the four families are your essential fatty acids, things like omega three that they’ve probably heard of, the vitamins like vitamin C, vitamin D, the minerals like calcium and magnesium, and then the amino acids, which are going to break down your protein, so those are the those are the four major families.

Zack Arnold: My listeners from the past know, and the people that read the blog know that I am just a tremendous, tremendous fan of your book, Rich Food, Poor Food. I’ve been on other podcasts, and they’ve asked me if you could recommend one book, where would you start, and I don’t even have to think about it. It’s just a trigger reaction, because I read that book. I mean, to me it was like a page turner, and that just classifies me as a gigantic geek. Seriously, it was a page turner. I could not put it down. I got through it in two or three days, and it literally changed the way that I look at nutrition and look at the grocery store. And I want to really do a deep dive into this book, and how it works, and like, I just want this to be like a standard part of the toolkit for my program, and it’s something I already introduced to all the members of my challenge group. But before we go there, I want to take a step back, and I want to know, how in the world did we get into this mess in the first place? And I know that this is a giant subject, and there’s a whole lot of politics behind it, but can you just kind of give me a general overview of how we got into this mess with diet and food in the first place?

Jayson Calton: Yeah, I think it really comes down to one word: industrialization. I mean, we want to live in this world that we’ve created for ourselves. We no longer want to live the way that our ancestors or even remote tribes in the world today live. We don’t want to wake up in the morning and go out and fish, and then we want to make our food, and we don’t want to, you know, we don’t want to farm by hand, and we don’t want to live in small clans, and we don’t want to eat everything, you know, and live in this natural environment that our ancestors all lived in. We want to live in the city, we want to get in our car, we want to go to work, we want to watch movies, we want to have our food at our fingertips, we want to eat in 15 minutes, so we’re living in an unnatural type of environment, and that’s really what it comes down to. In order to achieve the task of feeding 7 billion people across the world in this way, we have to change things, and one of the major things we changed was our food, and really that’s kind of that’s of course that’s where we like to focus things on. So, how did we change our food, and how is it different than what our ancestors had, and why is that so important. Well, our first book was called Naked Calories, and the reason we called it Naked Calories is because we talk about how our food has literally been stripped of those micronutrients that Mira was talking about. So, this is problem number one, when you’ve got food that still has all those calories in it, remember the macronutrients, carbs, fats, and proteins, but the micronutrients have been stripped from it. This is a, this is a major problem, because we eat and we eat and we eat, and our bodies have two major focuses when we eat that food: one, like Mira said, to get enough energy to run our bodies, but two, to get enough of those essential vitamins, minerals, essential fats, and amino acids that we need in order to do everything else. The problem with today’s food is we’re eating it all, and it’s providing the calories, but it’s not providing those essential micronutrients. And so this is one of the big ways we get into problems, because our body doesn’t ever send the signal to say we’ve got enough of these micronutrients, so we can kind of turn off our hunger signal, it just keeps saying, wait a minute, we didn’t get enough of those micronutrients, so keep putting the food in. It doesn’t matter if we’re getting more calories than we need, we know what to do with those calories, we’re stored as fat as later, but we need to make sure you get enough of those micronutrients, or we’re in big trouble, so keep eating. And you know, a lot of times people scratch their head, say, why are we all so obese, or why do we have this problem? You know, these are intelligent people, they know not to eat so much food, so why are they doing it? Well, it comes down to a lot of that, those missing micronutrients. And then it’s a million other things, it’s cows. Here’s here’s something your listeners probably know: cows are supposed to eat grass. If you don’t know that, that’s something really important to learn when it comes to nutrition, but that’s not what manufacturers of beef are doing with those cows, they’re they’re taking those cows, they’re not giving them grass, they’re putting them into these capos, there, which is basically mud and manure on the ground, they’re feeding them wheat, they’re feeding them soy, they’re not giving them grass, and so our meats and our food in general are not the same as our ancestors, they don’t have the vitamins and the minerals and the essential fats that they need, and so this is, you know, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but you can imagine that food that is raised in this way with this unnatural feed and environment, and our food that’s been stripped of its micronutrients, and then perhaps shipped from state to state, or continent to continent, losing micronutrients with every minute of every mile that is exposed to heat, air, and light, which is how food loses its micronutrients, isn’t the same micronutrient impact food of our ancestors. And when we start to understand that, it becomes very easy to understand how we’re all kind of in this micronutrient deficient state.

Zack Arnold: So I think that’s an incredibly succinct and great explanation of kind of why food isn’t what we used to think that it was, and we’re going to go in. To later, why I personally feel that supplementation is necessary, and I know that you guys have your own feelings about this as well, and even make your own supplements, which I use, because you think that you’re eating food that has a certain level of nutrients in it, and then you realize when you understand more about the food process that most of that actually isn’t even in there anymore, and there are so many different processes that strip it, but before we go down that road, I want to kind of stay with the idea of how we got where we are. Can you talk a little bit about the food pyramid that everybody grew up with, and just why it’s so backwards?

Mira Calton: Well, we like to look at everything from the micronutrient standpoint, so while a lot of people probably come on your show and talk about different aspects of it, we like to look at it from the micronutrient angle. So, what happened to the food pyramid when we started to look and say grains were the most important thing, and then we started to say these processed grains, they added in a lot of sugar into these processed grains. So, if we take a step back and look at this food pyramid as it is now, what does grain do to you on a micronutrient level, so for us we can look at it and say grains, because they are high in phytic acid, which is an anti-nutrient, rob you of a lot of these micronutrients. So, what happened with the food pyramid is they started adding in more processed, not healthy foods, which are all anti-nutrients, which are stripping us further. I mean, on top of that, obviously, we’re pro-fat people. We understand that you can’t absorb any of your micronutrients if you don’t have fat in your diet. So, when the light, the low-fat craze started, it again was robbing everybody of their micronutrients. So, I mean, those are two things that most people really don’t talk about.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, I think a lot of people, you know, they kind of off the cuff, they’ll say, “Oh, yeah, yeah, I heard about this, you know, food pyramid thing, just flip it on its head, and then it’s basically that’s how you’re supposed to do it, and you know, and I guess if you just, on a kind of, a, you know, on a basic level, by doing that, you’d certainly be eating a healthier, better diet, but there’s a lot more things to think about than just flipping the food pyramid on its head, like Mira said, there’s the food quality aspect of it, I think a good example of this is, you know, another phrase that people just kind of off the cuff sometimes say, as kind of, “Oh, of course, this is healthier for it, just eat real food. You’ve heard that before, too, right? So, you know, come on, guys, this isn’t so complicated. Just eat real food. Well, an apple is real food, right? But is it real food if it’s a genetically modified apple that’s been sprayed with 42 different types of pesticides. I mean, that’s that’s a very different, that’s a reality that we now have to worry about in modern, in the modern world, in modern America. So, we don’t want to just say we’ll just go eat real food, we want to say eat food that hasn’t been genetically modified. We want to eat food that hasn’t been sprayed with pesticides or treated with some kind of toxins. We want to eat food that isn’t been irradiated, so that it doesn’t get old, it doesn’t appear to get old, even for weeks or months down the line, yet every single one of those days it’s losing its micronutrient value, of course, we don’t want to eat food that’s been stripped of its micronutrients, we also don’t want to eat food that’s been that, you know, maybe like this grain fed beef, or and and or soy fed and arsenic fed chickens and or non wild caught or aqua farm fish or genetically modified fish, all these things are theoretically real foods, but in today’s reality of nutrition we have to take it a step further, and that’s why we really do what we do and dig a little deeper, so people can take some of this initial advice and start there, but they really have to then take that next level and say, okay, now I need to get down to the nitty gritty and figure out, you know, once I’ve done these basic things, how do I really create a diet that’s going to ultimately give me my health, and I think another important thing that we want to just get out there now, early in the show, is that we’re big believers of one fact, and that is that micronutrient deficiency is the most widespread and dangerous health condition of the 21st century, and you’re going to hear us talk a lot about this micronutrient deficiency, but you may wonder, why is it so, you know, why are they so on this? Yeah, what’s what’s the big deal about it when you’re deficient in even one essential micronutrient, remember that’s the word essential. Your body suffers when you’re deficient in one for a small period of time. That suffrage might be something simple, like maybe you don’t sleep very well, or you get a headache, or maybe it’s a skin irritation. But when that deficiency goes for a longer period of time, and perhaps is more than one deficient, maybe you’re deficient in 510, 1520, of these micronutrients, then those deficiencies have been linked in nutritional medical science to very serious health conditions and diseases, including cancer and heart disease and diabetes and obesity, and you name it. So, once you start to understand that micronutrient deficiency equals poor health all the way up through deadly health conditions, you can start to understand why we make that the center of our focus for creating optimal health. In short, you cannot achieve optimal health in any way, shape, or form if micronutrient sufficiency is not met.

Mira Calton: Yeah, and it also, you know, the bottom pyramid part of the pyramid was just all carbo heavy carbohydrates, which we, if your audience doesn’t know already, will definitely have major insulin spikes. Like, and I mean, that’s the problem. We know now that it’s not the meat that’s causing cards, you know, vascular disease, not the meat that’s causing cancer. It’s really this inflammation caused by these insulin spikes that are actually causing these diseases. So they had it all wrong. They had the wrong photo, the focus on the wrong types of foods. The most micronutrient rich foods are actually the parts of the animals that most people are even afraid to eat called awful? I mean, it’s the brains, the heart, the liver, those are the things that are really the most micronutrient rich, and they were never even on the darn pyramid to begin with.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I don’t ever remember seeing a big picture of a giant cow heart on the food pyramid. There’s no, there’s no question about that, exactly. So, they’re like literally, I think I thought of 12 questions as you guys were just saying that last thing, but the first thing that I really want to point out is how much I admire the passion that you have for this, because there are so many businesses and online sites and everything else that are coming up because people are trying to capitalize on the health craze, and I just feel like you guys are coming from it from a totally different angle, which is this is something we care about so much, and we’ve discovered all this information, and we need to get it out to people, and by the way, it also happens to be our living, but it’s not the other way around, it’s not, oh, here’s a really good way to make a living and make some money, it’s just you guys have genuine passion for what you’re doing, and I really, really gravitate towards that a lot, so I just wanted to let you know that I admire that, and let my audience know that I admire that, because passion is where it all starts. So, I just.. that’s really, really cool.

Mira Calton: Thank you. I mean, I’ll just tell a little bit about why we even gotten this in the first place, if I can.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, of course.

Mira Calton: Yeah, when I was 30, I was living like a really crazy high-powered life in New York City, so I had my own PR firm. I was going to your film premieres, and I was doing restaurant openings, and I just started working really, really hard, crazy hours, and I wasn’t taking care of myself, I thought I was, I was eating a lot of fat-free salads, and I, you know, as a size zero or two at the biggest, and I thought that going to hip hop class, I was, I was at least getting exercise, but you know, I drank, and I, and I worked really hard, and I just started feeling really bad about my 29th year, and then by the time I reached 30, I couldn’t do my job anymore. My back started hurting really, really bad, my hips just throbbed, and I was literally just laid up on my sofa when I finally admitted that there was something wrong with me, because most of us who are busy don’t want to take the time out of our busy work schedules to face the fact that we’re not feeling well. When I finally was able to admit it to myself, and I went to the doctor, I found out that I had the bone density of an 80 year old woman, so I had advanced osteoporosis at 30, and the only thing they told me was take a lot of prescription medications, and oh yeah, there’s this thing called calcium, you might want to look into, so that was not going to be me. I was not going to take all the prescription medications, because I had horrible side effects, and I became passionate about trying to figure out what this calcium was. It’s a mineral, I found out, and I knew, okay, minerals are important, and why, and it took us down this me, down this path of trying to figure out how to cure my disease. I had to sell my, my company in New York. My sister had to take care of me in Florida, and I knew that I didn’t have all the answers, because I had not yet become a nutritionist. So I decided to find a doctor who’d work with me. We started looking at this from a whole micronutrient standpoint, and after two years of micronutrient therapy through micronutrient-rich foods supplementation and lifestyle habits being changed, we found out we went back for a DEXA scan, and I had reversed my osteoporosis completely. So they are now not just important to in my history and being able to reverse my disease, and now I feel I need to be able to tell other people, but I wouldn’t be married right now to Jason, because he was the doctor that I went to.

Zack Arnold: Wait a second, I didn’t know that part of the story. That’s a new, new piece of the puzzle for me. That’s awesome.

Mira Calton: Yeah, so I mean, not only can I walk and do my job, and did I want to go back and become a nutritionist, because it became so impassioned about this, and now we get to help all these people around the world that come to us for micronutrient therapy, and maybe they’re not all going to marry their doctor, but I know we’re going to get their health better, and that’s what we see across the board. I mean, not just osteoporosis, it’s high blood pressure, it’s cholesterol issues, it’s just, you know, everything across the board that you can think of someone complaining about. There is a micronutrient solution to that problem, and it’s just like plugging in the right hole, like you’ve been digging that one hole, because you’ve never had it in your diet. Maybe it’s vitamin C, maybe it’s vitamin K, whatever it is, you’re lacking in it. The longer you’re lacking, the deeper the hole gets, and if we can just fill that hole, we can get rid of the problems. So, yeah, we love what we do, and we love what we do because we know that no one else was actually helping people with us, and so we feel that it was our obligation to stand up and be the people who talk about micronutrients, and we know they’re not sexy. We know nobody is gonna like it. Took us this is our third book, and they’re finally letting us put our title, Micronutrient Miracle, on it. That’s the title of our new book, but it took three books before. Someone would allow us to use the word micronutrient. We’re thrilled that we’re making this headway in this, in this area, and we love helping people with it. So that’s why we’re passionate.

Zack Arnold: So one thing that I really, really like about that story, other than it’s just a great story, is something that I’m really trying to advocate for people that are listening to the show, and people that come to me and are wondering, how do I, how do I be as healthy as you when I’m working in this industry, because it’s such an impossible industry to be healthy in. And I say, you have to learn how to be your own advocate, you know. I’m not saying go out and get a degree in medical science or become a nutritionist, but people have to realize that there’s so much information out there now, and they still say, oh, well, you know, my doctor said I, you know, I shouldn’t go on the internet, and he rolls his eyes when I say I found something on WebMD. The world is completely different than it was 20 years ago. There’s so much information available to people that you can be your own advocate, and in a sense, be your own doctor, and that doesn’t mean don’t still go to a medical professional, but you can do the work yourself to at least get yourself on the right path, which is exactly what you did, and people just still think, “Oh, well, my doctor told me to do this, this, and this, and he’s the doctor, so I’m going to listen to him, and that’s just not the way that it is anymore. And I have the utmost respect for doctors, and I mean, Jason, you’re a doctor, but I’m sure that even you can attest to this, and I mentioned this in my previous episode. Most, most people don’t realize that the vast majority of doctors have zero training in nutrition and wellness. It’s all about treating the disease. So, talk a little bit about that before we go further, because I really want to advocate to people to just take charge of their own health and educate themselves, rather than subscribing to this diet or this fat exercise program. Just learn the science behind it, and then you can do whatever it is that you want.

Jayson Calton: Yeah. Well, and I should clarify, too, that I am a doctor, but I have a PhD in nutrition, and although I did do pre-med, and I was – my major was in molecular microbiology – I changed my mind from going into conventional medical or medicine, or early on in my career, because I wanted to do exactly what you’re talking about. I wanted to actually get to the bottom of the reasons why these people were having the problem with obesity and why these diseases were being started in the first place. And so, you know, I guess I started my journey, and this whole thing be, you know, back in the early 90s, before there was even the term biohacking, trying to figure out what it was we could do to our bodies, so that we could, we could reverse and or prevent these diseases, as well as how we could push ourselves to high performance. You know, you know, a lot of people don’t know that I used to be a bodybuilder, and I used to be a trainer, and I used to work in that arena, and, and so there was a lot of that, you know, trial and error that went along with it. But as far as being your own advocate, I think you know what you’re saying is absolutely true. Any doctor that rolls your eyes at you when you say you’re, you know, looking on the internet, the internet is now the new Encyclopedia Britannica, right? I mean, you know, nobody has those anymore. This is, is there a lot of misinformation? Sure, but there’s always been a misinformation, you know, to get out there and to learn what you can do for yourself. I think is, I think we are living in an information age where you know you have at the tip of your fingers the ability to listen to people, listen to listen to people like ourselves, like other people who you’ve had on your podcast, you know these are health and medical professionals that are very well respected, who’ve done the research, who published, you know, bestselling books, you can get more information today within, you know, just a week of researching something that then you could have done almost, almost in a four year college career in the past.

Mira Calton: Yeah, and just to put it this way, you know, Jason was not the first doctor I went to, just put it out that way. You have to go to doctor to doctor to doctor until someone is the right fit, until you find the doctor that, when you bring in your folder of your own research, says, okay, I’ll take a look at it, and they mean it. There’s a lot of doctors who just said no, no, the only answer was Fosmax. You’re going to be on prescriptions, and then I would shut that door and find another one. So, it is really about being your own advocate.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, and just, just to finish that thought. Also, to remember, the proof is in the pudding, meaning that if you’ve done the research on the internet, you’ve implemented what you’ve, what you think is the right way for you to achieve that optimal health, and then you go and you get your blood test done, or you go, like Mira did, and get her dexa scan done, and those tests show that you’ve got lower cholesterol now, that your triglycerides have gone down, that your bones have reversed, that you, whatever it is, that you’ve lost x amount of body fat and gained so much lean muscle tissue, whatever it is that you’re trying to accomplish, then that’s the proof. It doesn’t matter what that other person says to you. Oh, that’s not the way to do it. You did it. And what we’re learning today is that the way to accomplish optimal health today, in today’s world, and what medicine and nutrition is now coming is advocating to accomplish that is completely different than it was 20 3040 years ago, meaning we don’t know everything. What we’re finding out today we didn’t even know 1520 years ago. We think about that whole, you know, you know, fat is bad concept. That’s a great example, as you know, eat carbs, fats bad. You know every medical person in the, I think almost in the world. You know, 3040 years ago would have said saturated fats bad. Today we’re learning, hey, we made a mistake, and how many other mistakes are we going to find?

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and that’s why it’s so important to really keep up with it yourself and learn the basics, and that’s really the whole reason that I designed this program, because this program itself is still very new. I haven’t even been doing this publicly for a year, but fitness and post, in my mind is now a decade long journey, because you really kind of have to go through the darkness and the journey yourself to develop the passion for it, because once you get out of that deep dark hole and you see the light, you’re like, oh my god, I’ve made it through this, and I know there are so many other people that are in that hole, and now I want to help them out of it, so that’s why I relate to your story so much because I have the same story, and my listeners have heard it before, and you can go into past shows if you want to hear too much of it, but basically the short version is that I went through something similar that you did, and I was even younger, I was 25 when all this started, and I was literally suicidally depressed, couldn’t even take out a bag of trash without breaking into tears, had no energy whatsoever, and I thought I was eating a quote unquote healthy diet, because I’ve always paid attention to the information, and my breakfast was, you know, a bowl of Special K with skim milk with some holy toast and a glass of orange juice, and I’m like, what in the world is going on? I’m really, I’m doing my best, really, I promise I’m doing my best, and then I look back in hindsight I’m like, oh my god, what was I doing to myself, but it isn’t until in the analogy that I like to use is from the matrix with the blue pill and the red pill, and everybody that’s looking at the standard American diet or looking at calories in, calories out, or eat less, exercise more, those are all the people that are taking the blue pill, once you start to get a hint of the way things really actually work from a scientific level, I’m not talking from a fad diet perspective, but from the scientific level, and you take the red pill, you get sucked into the hole, and you never go back, because you say, “Oh my god, everything I have been taught is wrong, and I’m starting to take the red pill, and the entire world is just opening up to me. I was on prescription medications for years, and that was even when I was working with an integrative medicine specialist, because it took me a couple of years of just meeting general doctors and nobody having any idea what was going on. They literally just throw pills at you, they should just throw them at you. I think that that would actually just take the pill and throw it in your face, here, take it, take it, take it, right, but they were literally throwing pills at me, and I said, I know this cannot be the answer, and what I learned from the integrative medicine specialist, who I just interviewed in the last episode, Dr. De Mello, is that you have to number one be your own advocate, and I was hearing that from a licensed medical professional, and number two, you have to integrate, you know, the traditional medicine of treating disease, but also with preventing it, right? So, illness isn’t something that just came out of nowhere, something caused it, and it was about finding the source of that. And what I have found through all my travels over the last couple of years is that you want to pick out the number one source of just about everything that’s going on with people, other than some type of external acute thing, like an accident or whatever. It’s all about food, right? I was always focusing on exercise. I’ve been into martial arts and yoga and PX. I’ve been doing stuff like that since I was 12, but I couldn’t function, and I didn’t realize it’s because I was trying to be a Ferrari, and I was putting sugar in my gas tank, literally. And cars don’t function on sugar, they function on gasoline, and once you learn the right octane of gasoline to put in your body, everything just switches on, and you become a high-performance machine. So, you know, I can’t emphasize that point enough to people, and I’m sure that you, you feel the same way.

Mira Calton: Oh, absolutely. And the funny thing is, like, I can literally dissect the things that you said and take them on a micronutrient level, because that’s what we do. So, okay, you’re going to start with your, you know, with your cereal in the morning that’s fat-free, even if there wasn’t any nutrients in that, they’re not getting absorbed because you didn’t have any fat in that bowl. On top of that, you’re, you know, you’re eating basically a bowl of fatic acid, which is going to deplete you of your calcium, magnesium, it’s going to utilize your vitamin D faster, so you’re actually depleting yourself just by having breakfast, and I’m sure you had coffee with that, which is going to be further depleting, because you probably didn’t put any whole cream in with it, so we can just go on and on, and then you talk about the exercise, exercise a massive micronutrient depleter, the more and the more harder you work, the more you sweat, the more micronutrients you’re using, so I could look at everything you did throughout a day, and basically, you know, just say, “Oh my god, no, there’s holes I was talking about, shoveling out micronutrients. You had a ditch a mile long, and that’s why you felt like crap, because I mean, you weren’t, you were doing that yourself, and all in the name of good health, which is the funny thing. We all think that these things are healthy, and that’s why we break down. We always say there’s three steps to becoming sufficient. First, it’s eating the right foods. We say micronutrient rich foods. Why the book is called Rich Do Poor Food. Second thing we say is to learn the lifestyle habits that are also depleting, like your exercise was, and also your medications, because medications are massive micronutrient depleters. Yes, and then the third thing is to supplement smart, and you probably weren’t supplementing very smart at that time, so you know I love hearing stories like that, because we love dissecting bad, bad habits, and when people think they’re good habits, and be like, yeah, see, this is why you had that problem, so that’s really fun for us to do, and I’m glad you switched it all around, because now you’re helping other people to do the same,

Zack Arnold: Exactly, people really need to realize that it’s not, it’s not your fault either, because that’s it’s so rampant in our marketing, and just every all the messages that we’re getting is that well, you’re fat because you sit on your butt and watch TV, and you’re eating crappy food, so you need to eat better food, according to my plate or the food pyramid, and you need to get more exercise, and you need to have x number of calories in and x numbers of calories out, and if you’re not doing that well, I’m sorry, but it’s just your fault, you’re not doing enough work, and that’s just so as backwards from the way that everything should actually work. So, talk to me a little bit about specifically the concept of calories in versus calories out, and I know that’s not specifically what your book is about, but I really want a nice general foundation and solid overview before we do the deep dive into the book.

Jayson Calton: Okay, so I think a lot of people have kind of heard, you know, calories don’t matter. I don’t like that phrase, because calories do matter. I think what people who say that phrase really mean when you get down to the crux of what they’re actually saying is that a calorie isn’t a calorie, meaning that a calorie from, say, a gram of sugar isn’t the same as a calorie from a gram of fat or a gram of protein. They react differently in the body. But I do want to make it clear that if a person sitting around all day eating 3500 calories every day, and their BMI is, I don’t know, 2500 that extra 1000 calories is going to play havoc on their body over a period of time, and is going to likely result in extra body fat over a period of time. You can’t just say calories don’t matter. What we need to know now is how, how do calories respond in the body, and how can we use that information to manipulate the way you’re eating, so that you can get the results you want.

Mira Calton: That being said, the ratio of the different types of macronutrients, your carbs, your fats, and proteins, that does play a really big factor. So, for example, when Jason says, if you’re just laying around, you’re going to gain weight, maybe just so you know, in our new book we actually had someone who was completely sedentary and went on our ketogenic protocol, he actually was going through leg surgery, he was, I would say, extremely very, very overweight at the time, and he was very, very nervous that he was going to gain more weight because he was becoming sedentary. What we taught him is that by understanding how calories react to different calories, how the macronutrient ratio really matters, he actually lost, I think, 40 pounds while being laid up in bed,

Jayson Calton: Right. So, it is possible to be sedentary and burn fat, but you need to understand how to manipulate the body in order to do that. You can’t just eat a standard American diet and say, well, you know, I heard that calories don’t really matter, I could just eat more food. No, you cannot just combine carbs, fats, and proteins randomly together, and get that to happen. Now, if you understand how reducing the carbohydrates and increasing the fats and balancing that with the right amount of proteins, you’re not taking too much, and how to turn on the thermogenic effects of your body, and how to use your body as a fat burning machine, it can be accomplished. But these are these are very advanced techniques, you know. So, when it comes down to the calorie and calorie out theory, you know, if a person is eating carbs, fats, and proteins, and some ratio other than, you know, extremely low carbohydrate diet, and then, then you know, then you do have to burn a certain amount of calories if you want to lose weight. I mean, just, you just do. If you, if you are eating a ketogenic diet, then

Mira Calton: It’s a whole different game.

Jayson Calton: You can eat several, you eat 1000s of calories a day and burn fat at the same time, which is kind of, you know, the what’s fascinating about nutrition in general.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and I think that when you’re saying the whole like calories don’t matter thing, I agree that that’s so overly simplistic, and it’s kind of like this get out of jail free card for anybody that’s like, oh, the new science is out, and I can now eat whatever I want, and my response to people is calories don’t matter if you’re eating all of the right foods. So, if you’re going to wake up and you’re going to go have the hot cake stack at McDonald’s, and then you’re going to have a couple of snacks before lunch, and then you have lunch with co-workers at the Cheesecake Factory, and don’t even get me started there, I could do an entire hour-long soap box on the servings at the Cheesecake Factory, but then in the afternoon you have another snack with coworkers, maybe it’s coffee and a bagel or whatever it is, and then for dinner you have a Marie Calendars pot pie out of the freezer. You don’t even realize you’ve probably eaten well over 4000 calories, and you might actually still feel hungry, and you’re thinking, well, I’m not eating enough. Try eating 4000 calories in a day of nothing but whole foods and grass-fed meats, like you cannot physically do it, because it’s real food. So, if you’re eating nothing but real food, you have all of your hormones regulated in your body, saying, “Whoa, dude, I got everything I need. That’s called being full, and you don’t need to eat that much anymore. That, to me, is where calories don’t. Matter, but you guys are the scientists, I’m not, but that’s what I try to tell people.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, that’s a great way to look at it, you know. If you’re just looking at it, you know, because you’re talking about, you know, the kind of the people who are just kind of basic in nutrition right now, and so I think it can be sometimes confusing when you start to hear these professionals who, you know, are talking about a very kind of complicated nutritional philosophy, when they say it doesn’t matter, you just have to be careful.

Mira Calton: Yeah, it’s kind of funny, like, and we’re very good friends with Dave Asprey, just left in this past weekend. But this, the bulletproof coffee, it’s, you know, bulletproof coffee is fine, it’s got a lot of calories, and it’s fine as long as you’re following the bulletproof diet. Do not start taking the bulletproof coffee with your pancakes, you will be very sick soon. This is, this is like a nightmare. And we, you know, we write for First for Women magazine, which is a very standard – I mean, it’s at the checkout counter, and we actually started getting questions from the average writer, and the audience is women probably looking for fast fat loss and all the bad diet places, asking us about the bulletproof coffee, and we had to say, you know, you’re it’s probably not right for you if you’re still going and you’re going to be doing all these other things, and you’re still gonna be having your sugar and your, you know, your carbohydrates, then please don’t just simply add more calories on top of it, because it sounds like it’s supposed to be healthy, you really have to know that this is a chemistry lab that you’re putting into your body, and you better know if you know how the chemicals are going to react with each other.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I cannot agree with this more. And this is actually something I didn’t know at first either, because that was kind of one of my gateways when I decided that I was going to start this program. I said, all right, well, there’s no way I have time to drop everything in my life and get certified and learn all this and that, but there are these amazing things called podcasts and blogs. So I’m going to seek out all the people that are the experts that have taken their entire life and focused on this and said I want to learn from them. And he was one of the first people that I found, and it was, oh great, I’m going to try bulletproof coffee, but I just added it to my breakfast, which still had two or three slices of toast, or maybe it was cereal, and I’ve had people that’ll send me pictures through social media, like, hey, thanks for the recommendation for Bulletproof coffee with a picture of it next to a bowl of cereal, and I’m like, oh my god, right, it’s because people don’t understand that you can’t have a high fat, high carbohydrate diet and have it work, it needs to be high fat, low carbohydrate diet, so basically, now what I’ve done for my breakfast is I now just have the bulletproof coffee, and I’ll maybe do two or three eggs, but I’ve gotten rid of all the carbs, and I literally have 0.0 grams of carbs until maybe three or four in the afternoon, but I don’t do any carbs, because now I know that I have a lot of fat in my system, and the two cannot mix together and still be beneficial. So, talk a little bit about the science behind that, because I get questions about that, especially like the timing of it, where people say, “Well, if I have bulletproof coffee, do I have to wait two hours, four hours, 20-four hours? Like, obviously we want to eliminate the processed foods and the sugars completely, but let’s say you’re going to have an apple or something else like that. Where do you have to be careful with having a high fat breakfast, like a bulletproof coffee or something else, and introducing carbohydrates?

Jayson Calton: Yeah, well, this is this is really my second love, you know. Micronutrients is my first love, but I’ve been putting together well. Mirror is my first love.

Zack Arnold: I’ve got that, that’s recorded by the way. I just want to let you know that I now have blackmail

Jayson Calton: And the ketogenic diet is my, is my third love, and I’ve been doing this since, you know, I’ve been experimenting with zero carbohydrate and very, very low carbohydrate diet since the late 80s, early 90s, and so, yes, it’s like a teeter totter, and that’s a good way to think about fat and carbohydrates. So, protein is essential across the board, protein does things that fats and carbs do not do, right? They break down to amino acids, they’re just a completely different beast. Then you’ve got your fat and your carbs, and those are your energy sources. So, it’s if you’ve got a high, if you’re raising your fat, you got to lower your carbs. If you lower, if you raise your carbs, you got to lower your fat. It’s just like that, and you want to kind of keep a balance of those, so the lower your carbs, the higher your fat has to go, because your body only has a choice of one energy source. Yes, the body can theoretically break down your protein and create energy out of it, but it’s not good. You don’t want to do that, it’s not as preferred source,

Mira Calton: Not efficient.

Jayson Calton: So you want to do that.

Mira Calton: Yeah, no. On top of that, like basically, I wouldn’t even see any reason to add a bulletproof shake if you’re gonna go low low fat the rest of day or high carb.

Jayson Calton: Yeah,

Mira Calton: I mean, basically, why bother? Because your base, your card, okay? You’re driving the car, it’s not sure whether it wants to run on one on the carbohydrates or the fat, so you’re just confusing your system. You’re like, you know, which, what am I supposed to be doing here? So don’t switch back and forth, don’t say, like, okay, this meal I’m going to be high fat, and then this meal I’m going to be high carb, you know, make a choice and kind of stick to it. We, we look at the Paleo diet, the Primal diet, and we first of all, we pretty much agree with the Primal, with the Primal program, but the problem we see with so many of the people writing about them these days is that they’re. Loaded with sugar and high carbohydrate content, so for example, these recipes you see where they take sweet potatoes and bacon fat, really nonsense, it’s just not healthy for you. So it’s that same thing, turn one off and turn the other on.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, I think you know, again, for people just kind of listening and trying to understand the ketogenic diet, a great way to think of it is that your body has two engines. The first engine runs on carbohydrates. As long as there’s enough carbohydrates in your system, even if you have fat in your diet, your body will always use carbohydrate as the main

Mira Calton: Electric car that has both electric and gas, but they never run at the same time,

Jayson Calton: Right? You can’t run them both at the same time. So, if you, if you’re eating carbs, the body is mandated to use carbs as your primary fuel source, meaning that any extra fat you have, if you, if you’ve eaten enough carbs, and you also ate fat in that meal, that fat will be stored as fat, and any extra carbohydrates will be converted into fat. But once you lower the carbohydrates down to the level where there’s gets kind of like, think of it like fuel, so once that fuel runs out, then the body has to switch to its secondary engine, and that secondary engine called ketosis, so the body starts to create these ketone bodies and completely burnt fat that the body can use as a primary fuel source. The heart, the brain, your whole body will use it as its primary fuel source. But what you can’t do, and what you don’t want to do, is say, “Okay, I’m in ketosis, I’m using my ketones, I’m producing ketones, my body’s using fast or fuel source. Oh, by the way, I’ll throw a banana because that switches back, that’s fuel in the first engine. Remember, any carbohydrates mandates that engine be used. So then we got to switch back to carbs, and then it’s got to be depleted. Then you got to switch into ketosis, and then every time you do that, you’re playing havoc with your body. Hormones change, digestion changes, everything,

Mira Calton: Gut bacteria.

Jayson Calton: So you do like Mir said, you want to try to stay in one philosophy or another for at least for a period of time.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and I think that that’s that’s a really, really good overview. And even some of that, I’m now looking at my choices and thinking, wow, I guess I need to be even a little bit stricter, because for example, I’ll start the morning with bulletproof coffee and some eggs, and I now have like a super, super like healthy version of eggs, where it used to be eggs with a bunch of cheese and all this other stuff, and now it’s basically, you know, organic natural fed pasture raised eggs with a little bit of turmeric in it to reduce inflammation, and you know, a little bit of Himalayan sea salt, and it’s to me it’s about fuel, it’s not about, oh, these taste really good, and they’re really fluffy,

Mira Calton: That does sound delicious,

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and they actually are really good, but, like, you know, somebody that doesn’t eat that kind of food will have it, like, you know, I actually make it for my daughter every morning because we spend the mornings together, and she likes it, but then my wife will have it, like, why does this taste weird? Like, because it’s healthy, that’s why it tastes weird, right? Because you’re not used to having all the cheese and the milk and all the other stuff that goes into it, but for example, like, one of the carb sources that I like that I’ve really gotten into is whole grain quinoa, because it doesn’t have any gluten, but it’s just something I really like the taste of. I won’t make it with water, I’ll make it with bone broth, so it’s really nutrient rich. But now, listening to what you said, and I’m just completely being self-serving right now, because I have experts on the phone, is that something that I shouldn’t be having at dinner if I’m having bulletproof coffee for breakfast, like, is that too much of a carb load, or how do I balance it out based on the timing of the day?

Mira Calton: Is that something you’re not willing to give up?

Zack Arnold: No, no, it’s certainly something I’m willing to give up if I need to. I’m just, to me, I thought that, you know, if it’s something I’m doing near the end of the day, and it’s a fairly small portion, we’re talking like a small fistful of it, it’s not like a giant plate of it, but it’s usually at the end of the day for my last meal, that’s where I’ll introduce the carbs, where I usually don’t do it in the morning or the at lunch.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, I would say that that is definitely, if you, if your goal is to create a state of ketosis and get and get your body used to using it and really running on that engine and the best way possible, then you don’t want to put in these starchy carbohydrates, that doesn’t mean that you can’t vegetable, but you definitely do not want, so the quinoa is a starchy carbohydrate, it’s going to have a large quantity of carbohydrate in that we’d like to keep it, you know, if you’re going to eat any kind of carbohydrate at all, and you’re still going to want to utilize that ketosis engine, then keep it simple, yeah, like lettuce, maybe asparagus, at the most, even broccoli is too, a little high, maybe some mushrooms, you know, something like that. Keep, try to keep that carbon under. I like to keep the carbides under 5% of your, of your total daily intake, if, if your goal is to run that 5% at 20 grams, you know, on the typical, on the typical 2000 calorie day diet, or something like that. If you, if your goal is to optimally run ketosis,

Mira Calton: Yeah. And the other things you can do is, like, there’s a lot of other substitutions for that, like make a cauliflower rice. I’ll tell you, I do cauliflower rice with curry spices and coconut milk, and it is just as satisfying.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, and I think that a person can have a very successful ketogenic diet, even as high as 10% carbohydrate, you know. So, a person really wants to get serious about it, they do 5% or less. If a person wants to say, ‘Well, I like to feel the benefits, but I still want to enjoy some of my favorite non-starchy foods that are carbohydrate-based, then even up to 10% Would be fine,

Zack Arnold: And now one of the things that you guys just said that I think is going to be a revelation to the vast majority of people, because I know that it was for me when I first learned it, is we’re talking about carbohydrates, and you said things like broccoli and asparagus and greens, and everybody’s like, wait a second, bagels and bread are carbohydrates, what in the world are you talking about right now? Like that to me was just an eye opener when I first learned that.

Mira Calton: Okay, so there’s starchy carbs and fibrous carbs, so anything that’s a weed or a grain or a potato or a what else is starchy rice, quinoa, these are all your starchy carbohydrates, which are more carbohydrate intense, so a smaller amount is going to have much more carbohydrates in it than a than in the fibers category. The fibrous category is things like your your green vegetables, basically as your green vegetables.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, think of anything from the earth as a carbohydrate, anything that needed to use photosynthesis to utilize the sun to convert into a carbohydrate is anything from the earth,

Mira Calton: And if it didn’t have eyes, and its mama didn’t have eyes, and it’s not produced from something that had eyes, it is a carbohydrate.

Zack Arnold: Got it. So then a bagel tree is definitely a carbohydrate, because they use photosynthesis to create the bagels that we pulled off the tree. Got it. Okay,

Mira Calton: And we’ve actually met with doctors, and they’re like, that’s okay, no carbohydrates, so we can still get them orange juice, right?

Zack Arnold: Oh my,

Mira Calton: I’m like, no, no, no carbohydrate, like, and that’s just something people really don’t understand.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, if this were a video podcast, you would have seen my head just drop and shake, and just a dislike, really, really, like it’s very, very frustrating when I hear that kind of thing, because it’s one thing to go on somebody’s blog, some guy that’s like, oh yeah, drink orange juice because it’s high in vitamin C, you’re like, okay, that’s ridiculous, but then when you hear, and this is not uncommon from licensed medical professionals saying these things, that’s why things have just gone so wrong all over the world when it comes to nutrition and our health,

Mira Calton: And speaking of juice, we traveled around the world for 135 to 135 different countries for seven years. Not one tribe we visited juiced anything. No one would waste the meat of a fruit to throw it against a tree and try to get a little bit of juice out. It is just not practiced. So we like to look at the ancestral wisdom of tribal communities that are still healthy, that haven’t seen disease before, we decide what to do with our diet, so that’s not one of the things that we recommend to people.

Zack Arnold: We are now going to do a deep dive into rich food, poor food, and just so everybody knows, and I’m sure you can explain this as well, that rich food, poor food is not about expensive food and cheap food, it’s about things that are rich in micronutrients and poor in micronutrients. So I just want to start right from the top. I’m a caveman. I’m going to date myself with this, this reference, but I use it all the time. And now the younger people I work with laugh, but you know, I’m Phil Hartman. On Saturday Night Live, I walk into a grocery store and I say, I’m just a simple caveman. Your world frightens and confuses me. What in the world do I do when I walk into a grocery store, and how can I use your book? Let’s talk about just from square one. How does your book work to teach me how to go food shopping?

Mira Calton: Well, here’s the difference. There have been other books that try to tell you, such as Eat This Not That, what was good for you and what wasn’t, and in their recommendations they gave you things like Twinkies, and that is not a joke. They

Zack Arnold: Wait a second, hold on a second. There’s literally a book that recommends eating Twinkies,

Mira Calton: As opposed to other snacks, because they were healthier.

Zack Arnold: Okay, my head just exploded.

Mira Calton: The criteria they used was how much fat and how much salt, salt and calories do these, do these things have? So that was their criteria, and we’re like, well, that’s just stupid, and that’s not the criteria we’re gonna look at, because that does not equal health. We are not looking for all low-fat foods, right there, and sodium, as long as it comes from a good Himalayan sea salt, is just fine with us. So we said, okay, we’re going to look at a couple things: we want the most micronutrient-rich foods, and we also want them to be void of any scary ingredients, or any ingredients that are going to deplete you of your micronutrients or that could possibly be dangerous for your health, so that’s what a rich food is. Now, poor food, on the other hand, is anything that is low in micronutrient content and also contain these dangerous ingredients. So we decided to do, as people kept asking us, okay, what do I buy? So we decided to do is spend months and months of our lives sitting on the floors of grocery stores, and we went down every single aisle and the perimeter, and wrote down which brands were doing it right, which brands were poor foods, which brands were rich foods, and literally giving people a road map so they could go to the grocery store and not have to think for themselves. We tell you at the back of every single chapter, which is the aisle, what would make anything in this aisle healthy and what would make anything in this aisle dangerous. And then we actually give you our favorite brands for every single food in every aisle, so we really make it just a point and shoot. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a GPS, it’s our grocery purchasing. System, so you can shop smart, shop healthy, save time, and save money, all while avoiding hype and harmful ingredients.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, and we should mention too that it’s also gluten free, it’s also GMO free,

Mira Calton: Sugar free,

Jayson Calton: Sugar free. So you know, if you’re one of these groups where it’s also paleo friendly to a certain extent, you know, against your definition of whether or not you’re a paleo and you still eat butter, that kind of thing, you know, which is dairy, so it’s very easy to follow if you’re, if you’re one of these groups that may have a hard time following other other books that talk about how to find healthy foods in the grocery store.

Mira Calton: Yeah, and your audience is really busy, they don’t have time, maybe to learn what the different ingredients actually mean. So, what we did is, in the first three chapters, we take, we broke it down, we told you all the things that’s misleading in the marketing, we told you all the words to be aware of, and then we start giving you the ingredients that are dangerous, that if you see on the labels you have to avoid, but this is really about reading the ingredients list and making sure that you’re getting clean ingredients that are still micronutrient rich, so I love the guide personally, because it’s brightly colored, it’s really simple to use, and you know it saves a lot of time for people.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and I said this in part one, but I’ll just say it again in case somebody’s finding just this episode and they haven’t listened to part one yet. This seriously is a page turner, and that makes me a tremendous nerd, but I’ve actually had other people that I’ve recommended the book to, that have said, “Oh my god, I couldn’t put it down, like I’m just.. I’m in shock right now. I literally am in shock, learning all this information, and I don’t know what the heck I’m going to do with myself, because this changes my outlook on going to the grocery store and what I eat, and just how I need to treat myself in general. So, it’s not just, you know, do go through the steps, and here’s how you grocery shop and save a few dollars, and do this or that, like it’s literally it’s the red pill, you take the red pill, you’re never going to go back again ever. And I found, I think you may have even mentioned something like this in the book, I don’t remember or not, but you’ll be in the grocery store and you’ll see other people, and you just kind of want to reach out and stop their hand, like, no, no, no, no, no, don’t take that. Oh, they took that off the shelf.

Mira Calton: I actually go up to them and tell them to put it back on the shelf, because we wrote this. I literally go up to people like, you know, what, that’s not the best choice. And Jason rolls his eyes at me sometimes. It’s like, please don’t you know.

Jayson Calton: Well, because, because the shopping goes from a half an hour to two hours, then we start in the middle of the section, and then the whole thing goes crazy. But no, we even have clients now who are like they’re running through the groceries, like, oh my god, the other day, this, this woman, I saw her, and she almost bought this one, I had to tell her about the book, it really does, it is very much like what you said, it’s, it is taking the red pill, yet do not read rich food, poor food, if you want to continue your life the way it is right now, your oblivious life, it will change you, and you will, you can never go back once you understand how it really works, and, and all the different.. there’s 1000s of different little tidbits that you’re going to find in this book. You can read it four times and come away with completely different things. It really is.. we’re so proud of this work, really. It.. and it was like Mira said, we were on the floor in these grocery stores for months, and not just here in Florida. We traveled all over the country, so we get a good overview of really the grocery stores, you know, that everybody reading the book would be confronted with.

Zack Arnold: So, where I want to start now that we kind of have this basic understanding of the way the book works, and I love your, your analogy of the GPS, because it really is like having a Garmin with you, if you’re exercising, this is your Garmin for food shopping. It’s what I’ve said before is it’s like the Wikipedia or the Encyclopedia Britannica of food shopping, and for my younger listeners, I’ll put a link to what Encyclopedia Britannica is, because they’re like the what

Mira Calton: You’re not aging yourself to us, because I think we’re still older than you.

Zack Arnold: Oh yeah, I had two Encyclopedia sets, those are my Christmas presents, so I definitely know what those are, but where I want to start, is, and I think that this is, if somebody’s only going to listen to half the show, and they need to get the most important information. To me, it’s not what are the good choices, it’s how do you learn to avoid the bad choices. So, let’s talk about some of the misleading information, and to me, you may disagree, but the biggest one is low fat, sugar free, because everybody thinks I’m making the healthy choice because I’m getting the fat-free version of whatever.

Mira Calton: Yeah, well, we do a really interesting example in the book to start people off, so they understand this concept that you’re talking about, where we actually compare the Lay’s classic, which are everyone thinks the fattening potato chips, to the baked Lays, which are the low-fat version, and those are the, in quotes, healthy, air quotes, healthy ones, and we explain to people that just because they’ve taken this fat out, which, mind you, depending on what fat is used, it probably could be even healthy, but even if they’ve taken this fat out, what did they put instead? Like, they didn’t just do that without needing to do something else to make these chips, so in our example, the Lays, the real Lay’s potato chips have potatoes, vegetable oil, and salt. Now, not perfect, the salt is probably not Himalayan sea salt, and the oil is not a coconut oil, and the potatoes are probably fine. But so that’s what’s in the classic, the classic lays that they say are dangerous for you, but then when you start to look at. The the new healthy alternative, what they’ve done when they made it fat-free is then have dried potatoes, so you’re not even getting real potato anymore. You have corn starch, which is from corn, likely genetically modified sugar. Well, obviously that’s bad for you, but most people don’t know that sugar actually now more than 50% of the sugar in the stores actually comes from sugar beets, which is genetically modified 100% of the time. Now, so when you see sugar, you’re getting that double-edged sword. Plus, it has corn oil, which again, genetically modified corn. You have salt, you have soy lecithin, now soy leatherson, another genetically modified ingredient, and corn sugar, another genetically modified sugar source. So we took this product that was not so bad, and then we made it fat-free, and we made it horrible. So a lot of times it’s just, you know, unless you read the ingredients list, you’re never going to know what you’re actually getting. It is the last bastion of hope for the health-conscious consumer. That’s where you look, you look at the ingredients list. You don’t look at the nutrition facts to see how much fat is in there and how much sugar is in there. That’s not where you look. That can tell you it fits your nutritional profile, if you’re low carb or low fat diet, or whatever. So you’re never going to know if it’s healthy or not until you read the ingredients list, and all of these products are going to be lying to you, to your face, right on the cover, which we say is the billboard there. This is their ad, is the cover of the product on that billboard. They’re going to try to sell you on what they think you want to hear, so it’s going to say natural, it’s going to say fat free, it’s going to be making all these new claims that they make, and that’s exactly what we don’t want you to be falling for,

Zack Arnold: And you actually just stole my next question, because I was literally going to say, what is a billboard? So you already got a step ahead of me. So what I want to do, as long as we brought up this question, is talk about some of these catch phrases, because I, for years, was buying all natural foods, right? I’m like, well, you know, organic is a little bit more expensive, and you know, Penn and Teller did that thing about organic food, so it’s obviously bs, right? Because it was on television, so I’m just going to buy the natural foods, because I know those are healthier for me, but they’re not quite as expensive. So go through, like, the top three catch phrases that are just the most eye-grabbing, oh, I’m going to do this and be healthy, that are actually really, really detrimental to your health.

Jayson Calton: Well, you know, okay, so we’re going to talk about the catch phrases. Whether or not they’re actually detrimental to your health really depends on the manufacturer making the product. So, for the vast majority of processed foods out there that are just bad for you, the manufacturers want you to be convinced that they’re good for you. So, they’re going to use these terms as much as possible. That’s not to say that there are some healthy companies out there who also use these terms, so you do have to do your homework, but let’s say you’re looking at a box of, I don’t know, cereal or something, and there it is, natural and fresh. There are these two words, and and natural and fresh are like they’re big in grocery stores, but they outsell organic, like two to one. So, what does what does natural and fresh mean, according to the FDA and the USDA food safety and inspection services. It means that products advertised as natural should not contain any synthetic or artificial ingredients, and in the case of meat, they must be minimally processed, but however, they can still contain decidingly unnatural and health health-compromising ingredients, such as all these high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, modified food starch products enable labeled natural can also be produced using hormones, pesticides, antibiotics, chemical fertilizing, and genetic engineering, and sewage sludge. So, what does it really mean to the consumer? Basically, nothing. Basically, nothing, that’s natural and fresh. Now, what does healthy mean? A lot of people see the word healthy. Healthy also has a very specific definition. The FDA deems foods that have limited fat, cholesterol, and sodium is healthy. So, if you’re going to be eating, for example, cheese cannot be labeled as healthy, can’t be labeled as healthy. Why? Either can, either can salmon can’t be labeled as healthy, it doesn’t have a low, low enough fat content, and so,

Mira Calton: But your fake fruit that’s in a BPA cup, you know, those little things we used to bring to school when we were younger, this, you know, it’s a BPA cup tin thing with some rotten looking old fruit filled with sugar and stuff like that. Oh, that’s healthy,

Jayson Calton: No problem,

Mira Calton: That fits it perfectly. So it’s one of those things that you just have to really watch out for. My new favorite, which is brand new, and I just want your.. we haven’t talked about this before, so I’m excited to bring this to you first. There is a new craze out there where manufacturers have gotten smart, they know that we don’t like high fructose corn syrup, big shocker there. So, what they’ve decided to do is create boxes now that say no high fructose corn syrup, so it’s they’ve now taken it out of their products. This should be a huge warning if you see this on a label. What it means is that they’re now using a new product, which will simply be saying fructose on the ingredients list, and fructose has even more fructose than hot. Fructose corn syrup. Now, fructose is the thing that’s going to spike your insulin, that’s going to give you all these health problems. So, high fructose corn syrup is only between 42 and 55% fructose. This new one is HFCS 90, which means it’s 90% fructose, which means it’s got double the fructose. And now they’re claiming this, trying to trick you into thinking it’s not in there, what they put in is 10 times worse.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, I mean, Zack, right on the front of the packages, and I think cereal is a good example of this. I don’t remember the brand now. General Mills, General Mills, go look at it right on the front of the General Mills, it will say, you know, know this, know this, and on the last one is no high fructose corn syrup. So they took that out, the corn syrup, like Mir said, that contains at a maximum level of 55% or supposed to contain a maximum, legally of 55% fructose, although a lot of companies are doing 65 They took that out and they put in a high fructose corn syrup with 90% but because it’s new, they don’t have to put it high fructose corn syrup, they just call it fructose, and then everybody hears that and say, oh, that’s just fruit sugar,

Mira Calton: That’s not the same

Jayson Calton: Big trick you really want to watch out for.

Zack Arnold: There are so many things like that that are really, really scary, and what the lesson that I really took out of the book, more than anything, there are so many specific tidbits of information, but if you want to know just the absolute basic step one, just don’t even look at the front of the package, other than I know this box has cereal and this box has this, like you know what the basic contents are, don’t even look at anything else. You just go to the very back, you go to the specific nutritional information panel, and I’m at the point now. Thanks to you guys, I don’t even look at the percentages. All I do is read the ingredients.

Mira Calton: Yeah, that’s that’s what we want you to do.

Zack Arnold: Now I know what’s in the food, I don’t give a crap if it’s natural or whatever. Like, I go out of my way to make sure that as much of the foods that I buy are organic as possible, but another thing I love about your book is you’re very honest and you’re saying you don’t need to buy all your foods organic, because some are just fine if they’re not organic. So now I have a list of things that I probably need to spend a little bit more money on, and a list of things that I just frankly don’t, because it’s not worth it. So what I love about that is that there’s no agenda, but all you have to do is just read the ingredients, because that’s everything that’s inside your food that will therefore be inside your body.

Mira Calton: So, we’re not selling food, we don’t make food, so we have no agenda here to try to sell you on our box products better than somebody else’s. All we’re trying to do is basically say that these manufacturers are only making food for one reason, and that’s profit. They’re not looking at this from a how are we going to help the people out there standpoint. Most are not, and so you have to look at it and say, you know what, it’s like any drug dealer, because that’s what these things are. There’s a lot of things in here that are basically chemicals, and they’re tweaking these chemicals more and more and trying to get that taste perfection for you to the point that you are no longer in control. The MSG is hitting you the exact right time, so you just keep eating, and you know these people are trying to get you to buy more to eat more, and so you basically have to be again your own advocate. You have to look at the ingredients list, and you have to just make sure that you’re being smart about what you’re putting in your cart.

Jayson Calton: You know, a lot of people might think to themselves right now, well, I could read the ingredients list, but I can’t pronounce half the names, and I wouldn’t even know what the stuff is, so how is that going to help me? Don’t worry, we go over every single ingredient you’re going to find on any ingredient list in the book, so we define it in layman’s terms, so that when you, you know, you might say, well, here’s one, here’s azo dicarbonymide, I don’t even know what that is, is that a good one or not a good one, which you might find in bread products or other things, we’re going to tell you what it is, and why you want to stay away from it, and we’ll do that for every ingredient on the ingredient list. So, after you, you know, you kind of flip through the book and get used to it after a while, it’s going to be like second nature. You’ll be able to look at that ingredient list, and it’s almost going to be like it’s just decoded for you.

Zack Arnold: I think that the other thing to emphasize there too is, if you’re getting overwhelmed by the ingredients list, and you’re saying, “I don’t know what all this is, guess what. Stop reading, because you don’t need to eat it. Yeah. What I tell people is that when I buy things like cashews or nuts or salmon or grass-fed beef, or whatever it is, I’ll look at the ingredients list and it will say ingredients, salmon,

Mira Calton: Right?

Zack Arnold: I can pronounce the word salmon, I can read it, and I’m done. And it says that it’s wild caught, like that’s it. I’m done. I know exactly what I’m eating, but if you look at the ingredients of, you know, so-called healthy foods, and I’m bringing up an example in a minute. Actually, you know what, I’m going to bring up the example right now. So, my.. and I’m going to throw my mother-in-law under the bus here for a second. I love her dearly, but she brought home a box of fiber one bars because she wanted to make sure that our kids had healthy snacks. So I’m just going to go ahead, and I’m going to start reading this, and mind you, I ate these as daily snacks for years, because I thought I was making a healthy choice. Ingredients: chicory root extract, which sounds really healthy, actually it does. Semi sweet chocolate chips, sugar, chocolate liqueur, cocoa butter, soy lecithin, natural flavor, so far whole grain oats, corn syrup, rice flour, barley flakes, sugar, which I think I’ve read four times now, canola and palm kernel oil, vegetable glycerin, high maltose corn syrup, maltodextrin, I think I’ve now hit different code words for sugar five or six times, tri calcium. Phosphate, sugar cane fiber, soy lecithin, again cocoa processed with alkali, salt, fructose, ding, ding, ding, malt extract, caramel color, which basically should just be called cancer, cellulose gum, baking soda, milk, natural flavor. So now I know it’s healthy because it has natural flavor, mixed.. I don’t even know what this word is. Added to retain freshness. This is health food. This is what people are putting in their purses and in their glove compartments, because they want to have a healthy option to eat. This is terrifying to me. Literally, this terrifies me. And my mother-in-law is trying so, so hard, and I don’t blame her at all. She looks at the packaging, she says that it says 35% daily value of fiber, and it’s by Fiber One. How can this not be good for me?

Jayson Calton: Yeah, like I said, they are expert manipulators. They get on the television, they.. it’s in your mind, and when you’re walking through the store and you’re thinking, I want something quick, easy go for the grandkids, for myself, or whatever. Here, I know this brand. This is Fiber One. The guy on TV said it’s really good for me. I know I’m supposed to be getting more fiber. How can it be bad? So you cannot rely on these manufacturers and these television ads to try to explain to you what healthy is. You need to educate yourself and like what you do. You need to just, you need to not look at the front of those packages. You need to go into the grocery store. You can kind of start like this is how a lot of people do it. Okay, I’m going to take the foods that I normally eat, and then I’m going to look at the ingredient list. I’m going to evaluate it based on rich food, poor food, and then I’m going to use either the guidelines in the book to find my own better choice of that, or I’m going to use one of their choices. After that, once you’ve identified a food and a specific category, whatever it is, snack bar, or you know, chicken, or fish, or beef, or whatever it is that you designate as your rich food, don’t look at anything else. Don’t even bother looking at anything else. Don’t get caught up in it, because they’re going to try to grab you any way they can. They’re going to do it with coupons, they’re going to do it with the newest technology, they’re going to do it with a big no fructose corn, you know, high fructose corn syrup in there anymore. You don’t need to look at that. Find the food that you enjoy, find a brand that works for you, that fits your budget, and stick with it.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, but it says 140 calories per bar, so obviously you’re full of it, because this says that it only has 140 calories, and that’s all that matters.

Mira Calton: Yeah, and that’s still what a lot of people are feeling out there, and you know that’s why that’s why we do this, is to try to get people to understand that is not the be all end all. You’re eating 140 calories of pure junk.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, from what I understand, Drano is pretty low in calories as well. It doesn’t have any fat in it.

Mira Calton: Oh, there you go, it’s right.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, exactly.

Mira Calton: So clean your pipes out, just like fiber,

Zack Arnold: Right? Perfect. So, yeah, I just cannot impress upon people enough that you have to understand what your food is made of, not the percentage of this or that, or not that it’s this catchphrase or that catchphrase. Just know how they actually made it and what’s in it.

Mira Calton: So, what we do in the book is we have a steer here with all the good foods in every aisle, and then we have a steer clear with all the bad foods in every aisle. So, what we do is exactly what you just did, basically we show you how we would read a food label that was bad, so for example, I don’t know, Armored Armor Deli Baloney. This is one of our bad choices,

Zack Arnold: Really. Baloney is one of your bad choices.

Mira Calton: Yo, oh, you like this one best? Yeah, really good one. Jason wants me to read the Hormel Natural Choice, 100% natural Canadian bacon.

Jayson Calton: Now, wait a second, as a listener, right now thinking to yourself,

Mira Calton: Carmel Natural Choice,

Jayson Calton: 100% natural Canadian bacon. There’s a lot of people out there that sign, you know,

Mira Calton: It’s sounds safe,

Jayson Calton: Sounds safe. It’s in a clear package, you can see the bacon, it looks like bacon. Let’s see what’s actually in the ingredient list.

Mira Calton: One of the worst deli meats we found, what looks like sliced Canadian bacon contains more than 30 ingredients, including sugar, molasses, corn syrup, brown sugar, honey, pineapple juice concentrate, hydrolyzed soy protein, hydrolyzed corn gluten, caramel color, wheat starch, soy flour, and soybean oil. So that’s just to show you that natural label on the front is ball, and that it really does come down to reading those ingredients.

Zack Arnold: My jaw was literally hanging open as you were reading that. That’s terrifying, terrifying.

Mira Calton: And it’s the one and the only that brown package that makes you feel like, oh, they’re doing like that natural no glass, no color thing. And it’s not, it’s like total junk.

Jayson Calton: It was actually one of the most shocking. I remember finding the day we, I found this in the grocery store. I picked it up. I was like, okay, I’m, you know, they’re probably doing decent. I turned to the back, and I literally, I mean, not a lot shocks us anymore after we’ve been through all these foods, but that was the one that’s something that you should, somebody might order for breakfast at a restaurant, you know? I’ll have some eggs and some Canadian bacon, I’m not doing too bad for myself, but third, over 30 ingredients, and you heard those ingredients, so you really do. It’s a different world, and we get this question, and we talked about this in that in episode one as well. It’s a different world than our ancestors, it’s a different world than your grandparents. It’s just food isn’t food anymore. You can’t just say, “Oh, I’m just eating bacon and eggs. It’s pretty, it’s pretty real food. You got to get to the bottom of it.

Mira Calton: Yeah,

Zack Arnold: Yeah, absolutely. Now, but before we go further, I actually want to step backwards a little bit, because I know that there’s – I missed the probably the most important catch phrase of all, which is a good catch phrase, but there’s just so much politics that surround it. Can you actually explain to me what it means from both a scientific and regulatory level, what it means when something is organic, and why that’s so important when choosing the vast majority of your foods.

Mira Calton: Okay, well, organic requires that food is free of potentially harmful or toxic pesticides. There can be no herbicides or chemical fertilizers, sewage sled that Jason died out earlier, no artificial hormones, including that RBGH, RBST, that’s used in dairy products, free of antibiotics, you have GMOs, and also that it hasn’t been irradiated, which is basically a pasteurization, is basically a cleaning process that people use on food, which actually strips of the majority of its micronutrients, and it can’t be have any industrial solvents or chemical food additives. So, originally, so products made with this have to be 95 to 100% certified organic can proudly display that USDA organic label, so even if it has that USDA organic label, which is the best you’re gonna get out there, really, you can still have 5% of it come from that junk,

Zack Arnold: And that’s that was the scary thing for me, is that I just, it’s like, for the love of God, just give me one term that I can trust, just make it easy for me, and yes, the best option is organic, but even then you’re not guaranteed that your food is absolutely perfect, but until they come up with something better, it is the best option,

Mira Calton: And be really weary, because now their manufacturers are getting even, you know, more wise to our, to our love of that word, so what they do now is, when you read the ingredients list, you’ll see it say things like apples, organic celery roots, organic sugar, and then something else, so they’re labeling specific ingredients as organic, and many times the ones like apples that don’t have the organic in front of it are some of the ones you have to be watching out for the most, because it was too expensive for them to make them all organic, so they only hand pick the cheap ones,

Jayson Calton: Right? And so you know the health-conscious mom is saying, “Hey, look, this has got some organic ingredients, not the one that really matters necessarily. In this case, apples, meaning apples are the number one pesticide-sprayed fruit in the world, with the average of, I think, 43 or 45 pesticides on it. So that’s that’s tricky. So, on the front, there may not be an organic seal, but when she looks at the back, she’s seen all these organic words. She’s much better off buying the product that’s actually certified organic that use organic apples.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and I think that that’s a very important distinction, because a lot of times you’ll see the word organic and you’ll think, oh, this is a healthy choice, but number one, there are plenty of ingredients like organic sugar. Guess what, it’s just sugar. It’s still going to do the same thing, it’s going to give you the same insulin response. Nothing’s going to be different, except you know that it’s safer sugar, right? So those are the things to look out for, but for me it’s always about finding if I can 100% because even then, if the food isn’t all organic, they can still use that word, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s completely organic, so that’s

Mira Calton: Just our best option out there these days.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and it’s still, it’s not perfect, like I will be the first to admit. I get into this conversation a lot, they’re like, “Oh, it’s that organic thing, it’s all bs, then I explained to them that it’s not, but there are still caveats even to that, and I don’t know if we’re ever going to live in a utopia where we can just have a label on a food that’s just safe or not safe

Mira Calton: Label.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, so like that, or you just color code, like everything in a red box, those are bad, everything in the green box, those are good. But

Mira Calton: We have our rich food certification, so anything we name, we made sure, even if it wasn’t our organic product, we made sure that none of the ingredients could be genetically modified. We made sure that they weren’t using sprays, so we did all that work for everyone.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and I think that that’s it’s such a valuable resource in that sense, because, like you said, you look at the ingredients and you don’t know what any of them are. Sure, it’s great to say, well, if you can’t pronounce it, don’t eat it, but that doesn’t even always completely hold true either. So, the great thing about the book is, hey, here are all the ingredients you don’t know how to pronounce, and here’s why you shouldn’t or should be eating them, because there are some really healthy things that are kind of hard to pronounce, so it’s important to understand that distinction. And as long as we’re talking about things that are misleading, what would you say are the top three items that when you walk into the grocery store, you’re convinced that they’re healthy for you, but they really are not.

Mira Calton: Oh goodness. Well, it’s probably okay. Everyone thinks that the things are on the perimeter are the healthiest, so we’ll just choose things on the perimeter, because everyone says that that’s where the healthy foods are found. So, you know, let’s apples, obviously, is one of those things that Jason just mentioned. Everyone thinks that apple’s healthy. Apple a day keeps the doctor away. Well, that really depends what kind of an apple it is. I would not eat an apple that was not organic if it was sitting here, and it was, and I was just really hungry. I would wait with the amount of pesticides on it. It’s just not healthy. Additionally, let’s look at some of the cheeses. I mean, you’re getting one thing people don’t realize, also, is the toxins in an animal end up in its fat, so if you’re going to be eating. Cream, and you’re basically getting all fat, basically, or even a cut of meat that’s a very fatty kind of meat, because it tastes better, and because we think that high fat is good. You better be getting that from a really high quality source, or you are getting the highest level of toxins in that animal, right there. So, I don’t know if I made that clear, the toxins are stored in an animal’s fat. If you are eating an animal byproduct and you are not looking at the quality, you are probably eating all of that animal’s toxins. So, butter, you know, butter is like that. Don’t just buy any butter, you need to get an organic grass fed butter, because if not, you’re really just ingesting all the toxins. Your toxic load goes up, and that’s where we see all the health problems,

Jayson Calton: Yeah. And I guess that’s a tough question, because we didn’t, I didn’t really prepare, but I mean, just off the top of my head, I would think chicken too. I think a lot of times people think that, you know, chicken, it’s a real food, can’t be too bad. A lot of farmers feed their chicken arsenic, they do it for a couple different reasons, once for growth promotion, feed efficiency, and improve pigmentation, so it makes the makes it pink color. There’s a couple other reasons they do it too. We won’t go into, but when the Institute of Agriculture and Trade Policy in Minnesota tested conventional poultry, they found arsenic in 55% of the chicken parts, the breast, the thighs, and the livers with high enough concentrations to be to be dangerous, not only that. If you’re buying imported chicken, and a lot of this chicken products, or

Mira Calton: From China, these days,

Jayson Calton: China, and everyone in samples in China, they show traces of Prozac. They found Tylenol, Tylenol. They’re giving these, they’re giving, they’re literally medicating these chickens, because they keep them in these cage pens with lights on all the time. They’re going crazy, they don’t have any room,

Mira Calton: And those are violent animals. I don’t know if anyone knows that chickens are not friendly animals, and so they’re trying to medicate them to sedate them in order to make them not peck each other. And then we’re eating all that,

Jayson Calton: Yeah,

Mira Calton: We’re eating that stuff,

Jayson Calton: And they’re giving them ban antibiotics as well. So, yeah, it, you know, somebody may hop and puff to you and say, you know what, organic is not always practically, believe me, organic is not just a good first step, it’s a giant step in the right direction. And then the only other thing you can really do to chicken to make it better than organic is just make sure it’s as pasturage, just make sure it’s had that sunshine, make sure it’s got a chance to eat animals. You don’t want necessarily a chicken that’s all a vegetarian diet. Chicken, chickens aren’t vegetarians, you know, so they’re supposed to eat bugs and peck in the dirt, and they need that sunshine, just like you do, to convert vitamin D, whether you’re talking about chicken flesh or you’re talking about eggs. So, pasture-raised organic chicken and eggs is exactly what you want. So, it doesn’t – it’s not real complicated. You just have to find the source, and then stick with it.

Zack Arnold: Now, I’m not a chemist, and I don’t pretend to be, but I’m pretty sure that arsenic is not good, right? Isn’t that like a poison? Right, every time I hear it, it’s like in movies, and it’s like, yeah, he died because somebody poisoned him. What was the poison? It was arsenic. Guess what, that’s in your chicken, people,

Mira Calton: Exactly. And yet people eat chicken all the time, and what happens with these toxins and all of these ingredients. First of all, I want to make sure this is clear. We’re not saying you eat a chicken once, and because, as arsenic, you’re dead. Yes, what we’re saying is this accumulation of all these toxins and all these negative ingredients in your body over time, and in the amount that you’re eating them, the quantity over over a period of time that is going to cause your health conditions. We’ve heard this before. People say, well, you know, you’re saying I’m gonna get sick. I’m saying that you’re gonna get sick if you keep doing this forever. I’m not saying that one bite is gonna hurt you, but most people have been eating chicken since they were little, and all of that chicken is being fed arsenic.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and your body has to detoxify itself, that’s what the liver is for, and it’s just chronically trying to do this over and over and over, and when people wonder why they’re always sluggish, why they’re tired, why they have aches, why they have pains, why they have inflammation, why they have arthritis. One of the biggest reasons is the fuel that you’re putting in your body every day over a long period of time accumulates, and you just slowly get sicker and sicker and sicker and sicker. And one of the analogies that I like to use is when, and this is a horrible analogy, but it actually it works, is that when you put a frog in boiling water, it’s gonna jump out and it’s gonna freak out, right? But if you put a frog in cold water and you heat it up until it’s boiling, they don’t even notice it, and they just die. That’s what our food is doing to us. We’re like, I think I feel okay, right? And I’m not advocating boiling frogs, I don’t want to say that, but to me that’s the perfect analogy of what our food does to our bodies, because we’ve been put in the cold water and we just slowly, over time, are increasing the temperature more and more and more and more and more, and then we die from the boiling water, that’s what a poison food supply does to us,

Mira Calton: And guess how your body gets rid of toxins, it uses micronutrients, so just to bring it back to another reason why we’re so passionate about this is your body has to utilize mostly your antioxidants, they can’t detox without magnesium, all of these things require your mag, your micronutrients to be used, and when you use them there, they can’t perform other bodily functions to which they’re necessary.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, let’s talk about that for a second, because you know you brought up. That toxic, you know, the detox, and a lot of people want to go on these detox diets, and they’re like, and so, and then all of a sudden, I don’t know why, but detox diet seems to be associated with green drinks, or fruit drinks, or, you know, who knows what. The Mike Mirror said the natural way you detoxify your body is through is utilizing micronutrients, and so we talked about arsenic, so in order to prevent arsenic poisoning or prevent arsenic toxicity, the body uses phosphorus, selenium, vitamin A’s, and vitamin E. Now, a lot of people don’t like to eat fish because they say, “Well, it’s got high mercury, so I don’t want that. Well, you don’t have to worry about the high mercury, as long as you’re sufficient in the micronutrients that naturally detoxify, chelate to, and pull out, and prevent the body from absorbing these heavy metal toxins, which are selenium, vitamin C, and vitamin E, and leads the same way. Now, one of the things people don’t realize sometimes is that we talk a lot about vitamin D and how good that is for us, and how it, it helps us to absorb more calcium in our body. So, you know, you get vitamin D, you’re gonna, you’re gonna help with your calcium absorption, but when vitamin D levels are low, instead of helping the absorption of calcium and other minerals, it will, it, the vitamin D will actually help to increase the absorption of lead, because it works on the same pathway, so it’s that low vitamin D level, so you have to work, you have to make sure you’re sufficient, and again, just another reason why we always come back to micronutrient sufficiency, is the most important thing you can do for yourself in order to achieve optimal health,

Zack Arnold: And you’ve perfectly segued into where I want to go next, which is supplementation and making sure that you get the proper amount of micronutrients, and I took on this quest about a year ago where I said I’m not, I’m now starting to feel better, I’m having more energy, but I’m also very analytical and very geeky, and you know, all about quantification, and I try not to go overboard, because some people just go crazy with this new quantification craze. But I said I want to actually know if this stuff is working. So I took blood tests about a year ago, did all the cholesterol, did everything else. When I was, I was on the path to being healthy, but I hadn’t made all the choices that I made over the last year, and then about five months ago, no, probably less, I think of September, October, I did another one, and I also did a full micronutrient panel, and if this were the SATs, I aced it, I nailed it, I was sufficient in every single nutrient, it was ever, and we’re talking pages of them, it wasn’t, well, you’re good in vitamin A, D, and K, like, there, there were like 50 things on there, and I missed choline by like one point, and my doctor’s like, “Well, put in one extra egg per day, and you’re probably going to meet the choline, but other than that, I nailed everything. That is impossible to do in today’s society without supplementation, because people always say, “Oh, just eat real food, you don’t need to have all these powders and supplements, and blahity blahity blah, and you know what? If you live in the mountains in Tibet, and you’re a monk, and you’re growing your own food, that’s all fantastic. I live in Los Angeles. I drive in traffic for two hours a day. I work in front of three computer monitors in a small, tiny, dark room with no sunlight. To be healthy, and to thrive, and to function optimally I can’t do that without supplementation, so I want to go down this road, because I know that you’re passionate about everything, but now we’re in like hyper passion mode.

Mira Calton: Yeah, I mean, okay, so when I was sick, we started realizing that supplementation was going to be like so important to me getting better, and then we started looking at the products out there, and we’re like, okay, well, How can we make them better? Because I was taking a whole bunch of stuff at the time already, and nothing was really getting any better for me. So we started, started really examining supplementation, and we found that there were four major flaws in all the multivitamin products on the market, and we said, okay, we’re going to get rid of these flaws, so in order to do this, we’re going to start first by separating out of the micronutrients. I started this whole program where I literally was taking pills all day long, literally just to see if our science was solid. And we now have it to the point that we understand the four concepts, the four flaws, and we looked everywhere. Was anyone making a product that actually did this? Now, product manufacturing is not fun. It is filled with headaches between the manufacturers and the supply chain and everything, and it is really expensive. And it wasn’t something we wanted to get into, but like, nobody was making a product that we could actually get behind. No one, and the studies that we did on micronutrients, we’re like shocked that no one was using any of this information. So we started to make our product nutrients spelled n u t r e i n c e, so it’s a funny spelling of nutrients, and we started to create it, and you know that’s what I use to get better, and I think that’s what you’re taking now.

Zack Arnold: Yeah, I literally, this is a staple of my diet, it’s the first thing that I do in the morning, basically. I’ve set a reminder on my phone. I have a habit tracking app that’s called coach.me which is basically the standard tracking app for my entire program, where people are tracking HRV or making sure they get in their fitness for the day, or their meeting, whatever level it is. And the very first ding I hear in the morning is, do, do, do, you need to make sure and drink your water with your nutrients, right? So. Have 12 ounces of water within five minutes of waking up, and I put a packet of your stuff in there, and I am thoroughly convinced that that is the main reason that I nailed all of the micronutrients on that test, because the formulation, like you said, is the most scientific and the most highly absorbable to anything on the market, which is why I pounced on it as soon as I heard about

Mira Calton: Yeah, so we’ll go over the flaws, I think, because I think that’s really what makes the formulation so unique, is the elimination of these flaws. If we have some time,

Zack Arnold: Absolutely, it’s all about your time. So, yes, absolutely.

Mira Calton: Okay, so there’s four flaws. The first one is absorption. So, we say the four flaws can be easily learned by learning the ABCs of optimal supplementation. So, A, B, C, and S are the ABCs. A stands for absorption, B for beneficial quantities and forms, C for micronutrient competition, and S for micronutrient synergies. So,

Jayson Calton: If people want to learn more, so we, they can hear us. We’re going to talk a little bit about it right now, but we actually have an educational video series for free that people can go to at ABCs, that’s ABCs of supplementation.com and we’ll go over each and every one of these. Additionally, if you want to see, after hearing about this, how your multivitamin, your current multivitamin, or even when you’re thinking about taking, stacks up to the ABCs and to our product nutrients, you can go to

Mira Calton: It’s on the nutrients main page and nutrients.com

Jayson Calton: Yeah, go to nutrients.com that’s n u t r e i n c e. Scroll down, you’ll see an area there where we compare nutrients with some other vitamins, and there’s a little button there you can click, and you can take our stack up quiz, and it’s not just a small little quiz. We’re going to ask you a few questions about your multivitamin, and then we’re going to give you a 26 page report about how it stacks up, and it isn’t just don’t think it’s just a commercial for our product either. It’s really an education for you to be able to look at and evaluate your current multivitamin. So, so having said that, let’s dig into this. So, we’ve got a let’s start off with a Mira needed to make sure that her body could absorb the calcium and the magnesium and the K and the D and all these minerals that she needed in order to rebuild her bones, and in our research we learned that other medical researchers had done some, some pretty interesting studies. They went and they took 100 different multivitamin pills, bought them directly off the shelf, and they did some experimentation. They wanted to find out that if these multivitamin pills and capsules could even disintegrate in the allotted time necessary in order for your body, it needs to disintegrate in order for your body to absorb these, and the research show that 55% of the time it did not disintegrate, 55% of the time. See, so half you basically have a 5050 shot of buying a regular multivitamin pill off the off the shelf, and even have it disintegrate at all, which mean make the nutrients or micronutrients, even available for absorption, forget about absorbing, just available for absorption,

Mira Calton: And these are pills and capsules,

Jayson Calton: Right. So, what we said is, okay, if we’re going to hack the multivitamin, if we’re going to make sure our multivitamin is absolute, there is no chance that our people aren’t going to be able to have the ability to absorb it, we want to make it a powder. Let’s just get rid of this, it’s a powder, number one. There’s other research that showed 40% of the population has a hard time taking pills and capsules, and quite frankly, if you’re going to take a multivitamin, you’re going to include everything in it, you’re going to need to have six to eight pills or capsules a day in order to, in order to do that. So we said, let’s just get rid of that, we’re going to make it into a powder, and that was our first step for absorption.

Mira Calton: Yeah, now all powders aren’t created equally, like you should be aware. There’s a few things that you’ll learn about if you watch the video series. Most powders add sugar in because they think it’s going to taste better for you. Sugar is a micronutrient blocker, it blocks the absorption of calcium, magnesium, chromium, so you definitely don’t want to have be taking sugar with your multivitamin.

Zack Arnold: So, you’re saying I shouldn’t be taking my Centrum and chasing it with a donut, right?

Mira Calton: Probably not so smart,

Zack Arnold: But it’s making the donut healthier because I’m taking a multivitamin. Come on,

Mira Calton: And now I’m gonna bring this up. Also, it’s not a substitute for a healthy diet. Just because you take a multivitamin doesn’t mean you don’t have to eat well,

Jayson Calton: And it’s not just the sugar in that drink. The sugar is actually in the Centrum pill.

Mira Calton: Yeah, yeah, there’s not only that, Centrum uses like BHA and BHT, which are preservatives that are likely carcinogenic, as to make sure that they stay on the store shelves long enough. So, you want to make sure your product doesn’t put in any carcinogenic materials just for preservatives. Also, all those coatings that look like you have a shiny tablet that’s also going to make it, so they’re binders, fillers, excipients, all these things we teach you about in that video series. So, basically, a powder is just a much better delivery system.

Jayson Calton: We also didn’t want to just create a powder that was kind of in a tub. Sometimes you’ll see these, these tubs of powdered formulas. There’s a big problem when we talked about earlier that air, heat, and light can can deplete your micronutrients, and so you don’t want to just have a powder where you take a scoop and okay, here’s today’s, and you know, but what happens by the time you get to like day 30, it’s all like crusty at the bottom, and it’s been, you know, there’s absorbed the liquid in the from the atmosphere, and it’s been exposed, you know, now 30 times to light, and so

Mira Calton: Not only that, the minerals all weigh different amounts, so if you’d have a bucket like this. You’re probably all the heavy minerals have sunk to the bottom, and you took a completely different set of them at the beginning, so you’re not actually even getting all of your micronutrients every day, because you don’t even know what you’re putting in that scoop full,

Jayson Calton: Right? So, what we did is we made, you know, nutrients are individually packed daily servings, an am in the morning and a pm at night, so in a box of nutrients, which is a four week supply, you get 56 individual packets, easy to carry, which is nice, but also to when you open it and expose it to the air, then you know that you’re going to put it right in the water, you’re going to drink it, so it’s the freshest that it can possibly be. We wanted just to make sure, I mean, this is our baby, right, nutrients is our baby,

Mira Calton: My nieces take it, his grandmother takes it, I mean, it’s all ages, so we want to make sure we have to take it, it’s the best we could possibly make,

Jayson Calton: All right. So, that’s that’s a.. so we said, okay, we’ve got this covered. We’re going to individually, individual serving powdered formula. So, what’s B? B stands for beneficial quantities and forms, and again, when we, especially when it comes to calcium and magnesium, which are obviously two very important micronutrients that Mira needed to get when she was reversing her advanced osteoporosis. Anybody listening right now, go grab your multivitamin. I guarantee it doesn’t have 600 milligrams of calcium and 400 milligrams of magnesium. It just doesn’t, and it’s not because we’re mind readers, it’s because we know the multivitamin world, and multivitamins don’t put that in there because it’s too expensive, it’s too bulky, and it’s not just calcium and magnesium. You’re not going to find all three forms of vitamin K, you know, vitamin k1 as well as vitamin k2 and its forms MK four and MK seven. You’re not going to find all eight forms of vitamin E. You’re not going to find choline. You mentioned choline, there more, lots of multivitamins have either very little or no choline in the formula. So, what we wanted to make sure was that we had all of this in there. We wanted to make sure that you got the 2000 IUs of vitamin D that science is showing that you need some high-quality multivitamins, might start to incorporate that now, but very few when we were first creating nutrients.

Mira Calton: Yeah, so it’s kind of like, if you think about it, you could, there’s, you know, you there’s a Yugo and there’s a Ferrari, they’re both cars, it doesn’t mean they’re both equally valuable, and that they’re going to go, you know, perform the same way. It’s the same thing with micronutrients. Every vitamin and mineral has more than one form that a formulator or a manufacturing company could choose to put into supplement. One is the Yugo and one is the Ferrari. So, what we’ve done is we went through every single micronutrient that we put in the, in the formulation, and we had what is the most bioavailable form, which one has the best studies to back up utilization, and then we went with that form. So we literally have done tons of research on making sure that every form you need is in there, and it’s in the, and it’s really the Ferrari.

Zack Arnold: Well, and I think the other thing to point out, too, is when you’re listing all of the things that you’re putting in your powder, if you were eating that as a pill, it would be the biggest gigantic horse pill you’ve ever swallowed in your life, and you’d probably kill yourself trying to chug it down.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, yeah, it would definitely.. I mean, it would be handfuls of pills, like Mira was saying earlier on, when we first started to do this research, she was taking about five or six pills before her first meal, five or six after, close to about 35 or so pills, 40 pills a day, over 10,000 pills a year.

Mira Calton: I was not a happy camper.

Jayson Calton: Yeah, so it’s a lot, and all of that is in nutrients now. So, so we went over the beneficial quantities and forms of every single one, and a lot of people now, a big thing is, folate. Do we have folic acid in the multivitamins, or are we going to use the five MTHF, which is the type of folate that can be utilized by people who may have a genetic mutation for folate and be able to absorb it as well? So, even our vitamin has even gone there, and we have the best form of the five MTHF in nutrients at the full 400 microgram dose.

Mira Calton: So, yeah, I mean, there’s just a lot of different things to think about with that one,

Zack Arnold: And also, just, sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you, but before we go any further, I just want to let people know that this stuff is actually really good too, because that’s something that people will be like, “Oh, I’m sure it’s healthy, but I probably have to choke it down, because they’re like some green powders that you literally, you have to plug your nose, close your eyes, grit your teeth, and, oh, and you choke it down, and this stuff is good. My God, is it good? It’s like, like it’s the best way to start the day. I love it. I never miss it, and if I do, because I’m busy, or I didn’t hear the chime on my phone, or something, like, oh man, that’s why I don’t feel like I’m on top of my game. I didn’t get my micronutrients this morning,

Mira Calton: Exactly. And we hear that from everyone, like, oh my god, I have so much more energy. I left it in a different place last week, and I wasn’t able to tell to get it, and, and I felt like junk all week. And then now I’m back on it, like now I know again, and reaffirm that. But you know, you have to, it’s all about compliance, that’s why it tastes good, because if it didn’t taste good, you wouldn’t want to take it. And I’m a big baby, so if it didn’t taste good, I definitely wouldn’t take. So we did a lot of testing. The C stands for micronutrient competition, which was the total game changer. Now, okay, if you have two kids and they’re yelling at each other,

Zack Arnold: I do, I can sympathize with this. I have a five year old and a two and a half year old, so I know all about micronutrient competition.

Mira Calton: Okay, exactly, there you go. If you get two kids and they’re yelling at each other. You can tell them all you want to stop yelling at each other, but they’re not going to stop. What do you do? You put them in two different rooms, and all of a sudden you have kids that aren’t yelling at each other anymore. Well, this is the very same thing about micronutrients. Vitamins and minerals compete for receptor sites in your body, so in order for your body to absorb and utilize the vitamins and minerals, they can’t be utilized at the same time, have taken together now. Multivitamins just say, okay, we’re gonna take all these and all these and push them into a little pill, not enough of any of them, and we’re gonna smoosh them all into a pill, and your body’s gonna be able to figure out what to do with it. Bull, and science has known this. There’s not a food on this entire planet that contains all the micronutrients in one little food. So, why are we supposed to think that your body is any smarter in the form of a multivitamin? So we did is we mapped out all the micronutrient competitions, separated them into an AM formula, which is completely different than the PM formula, separating those annoying kids into two different rooms, and all of a sudden you have such better utilization and absorption,

Jayson Calton: It’s also a natural way to get around the problem of micronutrient competitions, or if you’re one of those research people, you might want to do some research on micronutrient antagonisms, and, like Mira said, the multivitamin and the nutritional world has known about these antagonisms or competitions for years, and they’ve tried to get around them with coding their tablets, you know, time releasing them, key leading them to, you know, amino acids, so that they, so these minerals will be pulled in through the amino acid pathway rather than the natural mineral pathway, and all these are ways that you know, like stabs in the dark at being able to try to get you to absorb these micronutrients, but they’re artificial ways, the best way, and the way that we decided to proceed with this was not to artificially attach them to an amino acid, or to say, well, you know, we’re hoping that the pill is going to drop it off around this part of the intestine, if we coat it with some whatever we said, separate them, and there’s no chance they can compete. Doesn’t that just make sense? I mean, if they, if they aren’t in the same formula, we don’t have to worry about the competition, and that’s that was kind of our realization. Well, four years ago now, and then we went and we patented that competition, that’s what you hear us refer to as anti-competition technology. So we’re the only people in America that can separate known competitive micronutrients into two different formulations, and give it to you as a multivitamin,

Mira Calton: And we’re not the ones that made up these competitions, by the way. You can go onto, I mean, you can go onto Harvard’s website, you can do these things are well known, and we were just amazed that there was nobody actually trying to connect all this data together and trying to create a product like this, and that’s why we felt we had to do it again. This was not like a let’s go into this as a business. This was, I need this. We started making it, we started using it on our clients, and we were like, okay, now we just have to start manufacturing, and that’s, you know, it’s a lot of work, but we are so pleased that we actually did the work.

Zack Arnold: And the analogy in the picture that I see in my mind is just absolutely priceless. It’s just this parent with these two kids saying, magnesium, you go in that room, calcium, you go in there, just stop it, stop it, both of you, and that’s what you guys have done from a scientific level, which I just think is awesome. I love, love the way that you guys have approached this, and just for complete full disclosure, yes, I am an affiliate for this product, but it’s, you can look at the chicken or the egg argument, right, and I said I didn’t say, “Oh, here’s an opportunity to make some money, I’m going to become an affiliate. It was you guys basically browbeating me into trying it, because you know how much, how, what, how beneficial it is, and I’m like, “All right, I’ll try it, because once you start doing these blogs and these podcasts, people will throw stuff at you every single day, and I’m just like, “There’s so much noise, and then I started taking it, and I felt better, and I felt better, and then I saw the numbers from the nutrition panel, which is completely unbiased, and it’s just science, and I’m like, all right, this is a home run, because not only is it making me feel better, but I now know what it’s doing to my body, and, like you said, it’s a domino effect, now that I am completely sufficient in all of my micronutrients. Now my body is doing all kinds of processes that it wasn’t doing properly before. So that’s why I’m such a big fan of this. It’s not because I’m going to make whatever, like $3.20 cent commission. Like, if I were in this for the money, I would have quit a while ago already, because I’m not making any money. I’m trying a

Mira Calton: Strong job,

Zack Arnold: Exactly. That’s why I still edit television, because that’s what pays the bills. It’s not getting my commissions on whatever product, is because I find a product that I absolutely believe in that makes a huge difference in my life, and I say I want to become associated with these people, and you guys are at the top of that list for me.

Jayson Calton: Well, listen, I can’t, I can’t say thank you enough. And for anybody out there who thinks that going in and starting their own multivitamin manufacturing company is something that’s an easy or inexpensive thing to do. I mean, I say, go ahead, put your million dollars where your mouth is, and see how far you get, and try to convince people. You know, we were also, we were just stunned by Mirror’s reversal of osteo. Process, and for anybody who knows anything about osteoporosis, your audience may or may not know anybody who’s dealing with this disease, but in the medical literature, it’s basically impossible to reverse it. That’s what they think. They think that, yes, you might be able to slow it down, yes, you may be able to see some kind of bone matrix strengthening, but you’re not going to be able to take a person who’s got advanced osteoporosis, and then make it so they don’t have anything that’s just kind of like unheard of, and so we wanted to find out once we started to understand micronutrient competitions, we wanted to see had any other medical professionals found that if they separated micronutrients using, you know, a somewhat comparable micronutrient separation process, would they have, did they find anything with their patients, and one of the big studies that I want to share with you and the listeners right now is a study that we came across while we were developing nutrients, and it was back in 1998 A study was published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that revealed, quote, that lutein negatively affected beta carotene absorption when the two were given simultaneously. So, you know, this is a perfect example of, you know, two micronutrients that compete. We’re talking about micronutrient competition in the 2002 Tozal study, T O Z A L study on age-related macular degeneration, AMD, an eye condition that leads to blindness. They use the cutting-edge information on this competition and successfully reversed and prevented the progression of the disease. The developer of this Tozal study, Dr. Edward Paul, PhD, of the International Academy of Low Vision Specialists, called the discovery quote ground shaking. For years, sciences have known that both lutein and beta carotene had beneficial effects on subjects with AMD. However, in this study, when for the first time the competition between lutein and beta carotene was accounted for. The benefits of both micronutrients were realized, and the micronutrient supplementation get this, either improved or stabilized the vision in 76.7% of patients, according to Dr. Paul. Quote, this information will really turn the way we look at nutrition on its ear. He added that this new understanding of micronutrient competition represents a quote huge paradigm shift when you consider that we have been recommending lutein be combined with other antioxidants, which is a reasonable thing to recommend, he said, but when these two nutrients are competing for the same receptor site, they’re only neutralizing one another, end quote. So you know it’s not just us who have come up with this, we’re talking about health professionals from entirely different fields of medicine and in nutrition, realizing that once you, that the power of separating these competitive micronutrients allows them to actually work, and I think that’s the reason why we still feel so happy about what nutrients is doing out there, and why so many people are getting such amazing results with it.

Zack Arnold: Now, did we get to S or did I cut you off?

Mira Calton: Yeah, so S is really, really an easy one, because it’s exact opposite of C. So, whereas micronutrient competitions make the amount of the utilization worse, micronutrient synergies are just the flip side. Micronutrient synergies make the utilization and absorption of micronutrients better. So, what we did is not only did we separate the screaming children. We said, you know, what we’re going to match any micronutrients that can help in the utilization or performance of another one, and make sure that they’re in the same packet. So, if one influences another in a positive way, we’re going to match them in the AM formula, match them in the PM formula. So, it was really like sitting in front of a whiteboard for a couple years, trying to figure out how we were going to draw all these competitions and who we could put where, and we’ve got all of them done, so we had all the competitions, and the synergies accounted for.

Zack Arnold: So, not only have you now taken care of the behavioral problems and separated all the bad kids, now you’re finding the high achievers and saying, let’s build teams, let’s get all these kids together, and they’re gonna, they’re, you know, they’re gonna make the next Apple, right? Right. So, yeah, you’re basically taking Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak and saying you guys really need to start working together because you have good ideas, and the rest of you just go to your rooms.

Mira Calton: Exactly,

Jayson Calton: That’s a perfect

Mira Calton: God, the troublesome ones.

Zack Arnold: Yes, and you can steal that by the way. I won’t patent the “go to your rooms” analogy. You can, you can use that on, you use it on Fox News, just, you know, just name drop and let people know about my podcast, so, so I’m at the point where I think my head is literally going to explode, because this has been a gigantic knowledge bomb, and I really hope that the people that are listening to this, they haven’t already swallowed the red pill, it’s time to swallow the red pill, because it literally will change your life, and to me, your book, and I’ll be perfectly honest, I haven’t read Naked Calories yet, it’s at the top of my list of things that I want to read, but Rich Food, Poor Food, anybody says, “Where should I start? Bam, I just sent him a link to that, I sent him the link to the review that I did, because I don’t do this, I don’t do book reviews, it’s not my thing, it’s not my niche, it’s not something I’m interested in, but I was so excited about this, I said I have to write a review of this, so other people in my program can read it and get excited about it. So, this is the only book review I’ve ever done, because it was just that important to me.

Mira Calton: Offer your people something, because you like Richie of Poor Food so much. We’re going to offer them the first three chapters for free.

Zack Arnold: Awesome.

Mira Calton: And if they like what they read, and I think they probably. Probably, will we’re going to offer them the book absolutely free, but just it’s 995 and shipping to them, and basically it’ll be on the same thing, they get to download the chapter, see how they like it, and then buy the book if they want to.

Zack Arnold: That is fantastic. And I really hope what happens in three months is I can start sending you pictures of editors that are sitting at their workstations, and they’ve replaced their bold M and M’s with your book.

Mira Calton: Perfect,

Zack Arnold: Like that, that would be awesome. Because I’m just now starting to get into the culture and have more people in my industry finding the show, and it’s starting to permeate a little bit, and people are understanding what I’m trying to do, and to have the tools, because I don’t have certification in anything. I make that very clear: not certified nutritionist, I’m not a certified personal trainer. The one thing I’m really, really good at is film editing, but I know a little bit about a lot of other things, and I know enough to get people started. And this is one of those perfect tools where I can say I don’t know everything about micronutrients, but guess who does. So that’s what I’m trying to do, is aggregate all of the experts in specific categories where I know just enough to start a conversation, and then I point them and say, you want to know about micronutrients, you’re not going to find anywhere better in the country than these two, so that’s why doing shows like this is so important to me.

Mira Calton: Well, we loved being on, and anytime you guys need any more micronutrient information, we would love to share it.

Zack Arnold: Fantastic. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, it was so worth the wait to finally get this done, and I’m just gonna pimp this show like cocaine. It’s going everywhere. It’s like I’m just gonna be on every street corner with my eight ball of rich food, poor food.

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Episode Credits

This episode was edited by Curtis Fritsch, and the show notes were prepared and published by Jakin Rintelman. Special thanks to Krystle Penhall and Sarah Furie for helping to spread the love!

The original music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Joe Trapanese (who is quite possibly one of the most talented composers on the face of the planet).