Zack Arnold

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Tony Horton, the Mastermind Behind P90X

About Episode

In this episode I sit down face-to-face with Tony Horton, the mastermind behind the most successful exercise program in America, P90X, as well as the creator of P90X2, P90X3, 10-Minute Trainer, and Power 90, to name a few. We discuss his new book “The Big Picture: 11 Laws That Will Change Your Life,” finding “purpose,” the upcoming Beachbody program P90, as well as many other topics below.

Transcript

Zack Arnold: All right, let’s go ahead and get to our guest. I am joined today by none other than the Tony Horton. And if you aren’t familiar with Tony Horton, then as he might say, you probably live in a van down by the river. Tony Horton is the creator of P90X, the best-selling fitness program in America, as well as the creator of P90X Two, P90X Three, Power 90 and 10 Minute Trainer, to name just a few programs. Tony operates Ash Fitness, a private training facility in Southern California. He’s the author of two workout books, Bring It and Crush It, and he recently released his third book, The Big Picture: 11 Laws That Will Change Your Life. And if that isn’t enough, he also recently launched his own healthy food delivery service Tony Horton Kitchen and his own fitness apparel line Tony Horton Fitness. Tony has been featured in so many fitness publications and has made so many appearances on national television. I don’t have enough time to list them all. His training techniques have produced amazing results for celebrities such as Rob Lowe, Sean Connery, and legendary film star Shirley MacLaine. Music celebrities such as Bruce Springsteen, Usher, Tom Petty, Billy Idol, Annie Lennox, and Sheryl Crow credit Tony for their mean touring machines. Well, it was a pleasure having you on the show, Tony. But unfortunately, we’ve run out of time. Darn, Zack!

Tony Horton: That’s all right, man. I’m sure we’ll have we’ll make up some time and and be able to get some some more information out to the people. So thank you so much for doing this. It is an immense pleasure to be sitting across from the man that has literally provided the package to to help me turn my life around and make it better. So I know that you’re all about purpose, and your purpose is working for me. So I just wanted to first of all say thank you for. Well, I’ve taken my purpose and I’ve given you yours by, I guess basically just showing you what worked for me. I mean everything I’ve ever done was really to improve my life, you know. And it’s a formula that’s really a combination of a lot of other people’s formulas, you know, from Deepak Chopra to Tony Robbins to Dom Gil Ruiz to you know my college weightlifting teacher, you know, it’s just it’s just the years and years and years of gathering techniques and methods and ideas that have helped me improve my life. The one thing that I I don’t think a lot of people in my position position talk about is, you know, I do it because I want to be happier and I want to have a more fulfilled, more interesting, more exciting, adventurous life, and that’s why I do it. You know, we’re going to talk about purpose today, but but that’s really it, I think. And if that is your motivation, and you’re not afraid of the journey, and you know it’s going to be tough at the beginning, but the outcome at the end is going to be awesome. You’re a perfect example of that. Then then I think a lot more people will will be curious about it and begin to make those changes. Unlike the you know a lot of folks who I think do it for esthetic and ego-based reasons. Which is not to say I don’t do it for that too. I mean, I like you know looking good in a t-shirt and

Zack Arnold: And I can I can say firsthand that even though this is a radio show, whatever people see on TV on the DVDs, oh, it’s real. It’s there.

Tony Horton: There it is. Welcome to the Gulf. I’m a little lean right now, but that’s on purpose, you know. Had a death in the family, and so I took a couple weeks off. I just, you know, I all of a sudden it didn’t matter to me during that time, and so I’m just getting back into it again, and it feels good. And you know, before we started, we were talking a little bit about the mental and emotional aspects of exercise, and ultimately, that’s that’s what it what it does for me. You know, I mean, I think if you’ve got multiple categories for reasons why, you know, there’s all right. I want to lose weight. I want to be healthier. I want to be stronger. I want to be fitter. I want to be more athletic. I want to feel good. I want to sleep better. I want my brain to function function, including memory and cognition, things like that, and you know, so you have to kind of gather your reasons why. What are you? What is your purpose? And I think, and I’m jumping right into it here. I hope it’s okay, Zack. But no, go right ahead. But you know, what I’ve discovered is that usually, if you’re a little bit on the younger side, you know, you’re in your teens and your 20s, your objective and your purpose and your reason why is very different than somebody who’s my age at 56 I’ve used party, you know, as a verb, and I don’t need to anymore. You know what I mean? I don’t need to impress people anymore. I don’t necessarily care what people think of me anymore. You know, I mean, it doesn’t mean I get to be a bonehead or mean to people, but it does mean that that my priorities have shifted since I was a wee lad, and that’s a good thing, but a lot of people don’t notice the shift. They don’t notice the change, and they keep exercising and and getting on some kind of weight loss program for the same reasons they did, you know, 2030, years ago, and they can’t figure out why it doesn’t work. And so, you know, we’re here today talking about purpose, and it just really, for me, you know, part of it too is being able to share what I know, because if I can feel this good and I can have this much energy and I can sleep like a rock and all the other things that go with it, well, then you know, and all it requires is eating better and exercising and figuring out that formula. Then I want to you know shout from the mountaintop right and and share that with folks.

Zack Arnold: Well, speaking of purpose, we might as well just jump. Right in purpose is law two of your 11 laws, and I would say that probably my favorite line from your book is, “My purpose is to help other people find their purpose. That’s probably what resonated more for me than anything else because I get that. That’s kind of what I’m trying to do with my program. And there’s a film that I’ve been working on for like seven years, a documentary film about somebody with muscular dystrophy, and he was the person that kind of did that for me and made me say my purpose is to get this person’s story out. Most of the people on my show know about it’s called Go Far the Christopher Rush Story, Go farmovie.com But you have your own person that’s kind of done that. So tell me a little bit about Jeremy Yost.

Tony Horton: Yeah, I saw the the footage with with Christopher and it’s so compelling. It’s so amazing, and there are a lot of people, you know, surprisingly around the world that are like him. You know, the odds were completely against him in every which way. You know, I mean, initially, I don’t think he was supposed to live past two years old,

Tony Horton: And he got his law degree. You know, I mean,

Zack Arnold: Hello,

Tony Horton: And obviously his his his desire to ignore all the naysayers and all the experts and all that baloney, and just you know, through his own you know will to to keep experimenting and trying and doing everything right, you know, there’s people with cerebral palsy that that you know weren’t were supposed to be stuck in wheelchairs for their you know for their whole life and aren’t and and you know on on a weight loss level Jeremy is a perfect example of somebody you know if you haven’t read the book or you don’t know about Jeremy Yost I talk about him a lot he’s been on a couple of military tours with me and you know he was a guy that was overweight for you know a couple decades he was a high school football player, but he was you know big, chunky, athletic, young. So when you’re young, you can kind of move that weight around a little bit. And he needed to to play football, but he got married and had kids. And while he was playing football, he destroyed his ankle, and it’s fused. So all the mobility that most of us have, you know, up, down, left, right, circle right, circle left. He doesn’t have any of that. I mean, the the ankle will go a little bit when he walks, but it’s basically fused. I mean, there’s not much of a joint in there. So he blew up to 380 pounds, and and you know, it’s really you know we’re talking about satori’s, right? Like, what is that moment where you go, aha! Something is different. I’m not that person I once was, and it can be in a single moment. You know what I mean? Like surviving a car accident, or it can take you know a decade. It’s it’s you know there’s no rhyme or reason for how it happens. It’s just as if it happens. It’s a beautiful thing, and for him, it was a conversation with a dear friend who basically said, you know, look, you’re you’re huge. You got these young kids. They’re not. You’re not going to see them get married. You’re not going to see them walk down the, you know, get their graduation, high school graduation. They’re going to see you in a box, man. And so, you know, and then your wife’s going to end up with somebody else. And I mean, if you’re okay with having some other stranger raise your kids, well, then you know, keep doing what you’re doing. Talk about a slap in the face, you know. So Jeremy wrote down two lists, you know, the reasons why and the reasons why not, and you know, no surprise that the reasons why are finding his purpose why that list was much longer than you know than just being lazy and being comfortable and and sticking with the status quo, right? So you know he got going, and it wasn’t in the first round, the second or third round, but you know he lost 180 pounds. He lost me. I mean, I weigh about 177 pounds. I’m between 184 and 172. You know what? That’s the kind of range I’m in. And so he basically lost an entire me. So you know, imagine walking around with me on your back your whole life. You know, yeah. Let me take these stairs. Not a shot. That would take a lot of energy to carry you around all day. Yeah, I’m pretty lean though, man. You could you could do it. I think if anybody could do it, you could be you, Zack. So you know, he just took care of business and he lost all the weight. And you know, he’s been on QVC with me, and he’s been on these these tours around around the country and around the world with me. And you know he’s very he’s more inspiring than I am when I show up at these events. You know it’s like oh you’re Tony Horton you were a lean kid who’s out of shape and then you added some muscle and you figured it out. But Jeremy had a much more difficult run at it than I did, as somebody had to lose all that weight 180 pounds. That’s just crazy, man.

Tony Horton: And so you know it’s not about the weight loss as much as it is about the man and who he is now, as compared to the guy he was before. The guy before was dealing with with depression and anxiety, and and obviously poor health, the inability to do much of anything physically, he couldn’t play with his kids. He couldn’t. He couldn’t even. He would sit in his kitchen and watch his wife cut the lawn. You know, I mean, he was so big and out of shape, and with the fused ankle, he used that as an excuse to. You know, hey, the grass is growing. Somebody’s got to cut it, and he’s sitting in the kitchen watching his wife do it. Well, those days are long gone, and now. His world has opened up. I mean, it’s opened up tenfold, and so yeah, he lost a bunch of weight, and that’s part of the story. But the real story is he’s a really cool guy who’s got a lot to do and a lot to say, and now he’s inspiring other people who were in you know the same kind of shape or worse than he was. I mean, he had Richard Neal’s another guy, 240-two pounds lost with P 90x Picture that, 240-two pounds lost. Not with lap band surgery, not with some crazy diet where his skin’s hanging off all over the place. It’s you know the right way. It’s through eating healthy food and exercising, and and both these guys now are are big influence on on hundreds of other people, and if they hadn’t, you know, gone down that road, think of the lives they wouldn’t have been able to affect. And and and they are, you know, they’re like little mini me’s now, right? They’re doing what I do for the people who, you know, might look at me and go, “Oh, that Tony Horton, and that stuff doesn’t work, and and blah blah blah. So so it’s really really awesome. And those are just two stories, you know. It’s happened around the world, and I meet people like that every week. Well, and that’s one of the the really important reasons I want to bring up Jeremy Yost is that I’ve taken on a pretty difficult task, and that rather than just creating a challenge group for my friends or people on Facebook, I’m taking on an entire industry, and I’ve decided to take on the post-production industry. And as somebody that does a lot of videos, I’m sure you spent a lot of time in edit suites. And editors are probably not

Zack Arnold: The healthiest species of human on the planet. And I’ve decided to say to them, it is time for us to take back our health because we can’t continue to live like this. So I’ve got a tough crowd, and what was really hard to sell is the concept of beach body, right? I know what it means, and I know what it can do for you, but all they think is, well, all this crazy P 90x stuff, and I don’t care about a beach body. I just, I just want to be better at what I do. So, just help explain to my audience what it is that that they’re going to get from Beachbody beyond just the Beachbody? Like, there’s so much more to it. Like, for example, you have the the 3x series P90X one, two, and three. You know, walk me through how like me coming to it. I was skinny fat, right? I’ve never been super overweight. I was out of shape. I was depressed. I had tons of anxiety, but I’ve never been heavy, right? But I have a lot of people coming up to me saying, “Well, I want to do what you do, but I’m 350 pounds. How can anybody approach these programs? Because I believe that anybody can.

Tony Horton: Well, you know, you’re right. I think a lot of people love having opinions about things they know nothing about, right?

Zack Arnold: Yes,

Tony Horton: Because it’s new and it’s outside of their culture or it’s outside of their their bandwidth or whatever you want to say, and so people are very very comfortable in a world that that they’re familiar with. So when you look at Beachbody, if you look at that that name, you know it’s deceiving sometimes. You almost wish we had a different name, a corporate name, or or something that just you know that didn’t create a visual image of what people are supposed to look like on a beach, right? So even that alone is sort of intimidating. But when you dig a little bit deeper and you pull away the layers, you understand that we’re really a company that’s that’s a lot of things. You know, I mean, from Shakeology to P 90x to Insanity to to turbo fire, to body beast, and and you know, my particular techniques and ideas stem from the desire to want to maintain and sustain first achieve, I suppose you know first first achieve a certain goal and then maintain it and and sustain it over the course of time, and so that’s why I continue to make you know one program after another to give people a lot of variety. So at one end of the spectrum, you got 10 minute trainer, and you know 10 minute trainer is designed for we say for people who don’t have the time to exercise. Now you know all of us have time. Everybody has 10 minutes, right? So so that’s sort of an excuse killer. That’s the reason why we do that. But the other reason why, and we don’t talk about that this that much, is I would suggest that a vast majority of people don’t like physical discomfort, and that’s what exercise is. I don’t care if it’s cardiovascular or core or functional or weight training or whatever it is, or flexibility, or speed work, or or any of it. So it’s coming up with techniques that prevent three things from happening. Now I don’t know if our other programs in Beachbody necessarily do that. You know, I mean, if you really absolutely love something, if you love Pio, then you know that’s your thing, and you just you just look forward to it every day, and you feel really good afterward, and you see change, then boom, that’s your thing, you know. I mean, absolutely all all the way. Body beast at the other end of the spectrum is for that, you know, that select group of of young guys and gals. Some are older, but most of them are younger. Who just want, you know, who just want to see what it’s like to really grow their muscles pretty big, right? But mine’s a little. In the sense that I’m, I’ve got some, I’ve got some weight training, obviously some some bodybuilding type movements in my programs. I’ve also got mixed martial arts in my programs. I’ve got Pilates and yoga in my programs, and I’ve got you know cardio, obviously, and I’ve got agility, and I’ve got you know eccentric, concentric, isometric, you know, I got it all. I mean, you know, you’re a fan of P90X too, so you you know the number, and you know this this and nobody talks about this. You know not that I’m special, but I understand that most people can’t maintain and sustain after their first 90 days or first round of whatever program is because they get bored. All right, okay, all right. 90 days are up. Now what am I supposed to do? I’m supposed to do it again, right? Or you know, hopefully not with my stuff. But in general, you know, if you’re going to the gym and you’re doing chest all day and then an hour on the elliptical, I don’t know how you’re able to do that for eight years in a row. I, I mean, it’s that sounds like a prison sentence to me, right?

Tony Horton: So you got boredom and you’ve got injuries, and so obviously, if you’re repeating the same movements the same way over and over and over again, there’s going to be wear and tear, and at some point, you know, it’s going to be your knee or your back or your ankles or your shoulder or something, and and then you’re going to say, well, see, I’ve hit the wall, I’m injured, this is as far as I can go because I’m X years old, and then the other one is not seeing the results that you expect. I mean, we call it plateauing, and that’s typically because you’re doing the same stuff over and over and over again. So what I’ve said to women, and you know, in general, it’s men as well. But you know, if you’re doing Pilates and yoga, you better start doing some push-ups and some pull-ups and and some lift and go pick up some weights and start doing something that’s outside of your comfort zone. Because every time you work on your weaknesses and every time you’re outside of your comfort zone, that’s when your body starts to make dramatic change because you’re introducing something new, and people freak out when they’re super fit and they’re introduced to something new and they suck at it, and so they just assume, oh, I want to go back to what I know because I’m doing pretty well there and I’m performing at a high level, and that impresses my friends and impresses my ego, so I’m going to go back to bodybuilding, and and what bodybuilders and and and people who are doing muscle building workouts should be doing is more agility and more flexibility and more Pilates and more yoga. That is, if you want to be able to you know maintain and sustain and continue to improve your level of fitness over time. Right. That’s why I made P90X two. I made P90X two to go. Oh, by the way, you’ve done P 90x You’ve done it 345, 10 freaking times, and you look phenomenal in your great shape. Guess what? Starting over now. Got to start over now. And unfortunately, P 90 x2 wasn’t as popular as P 90x because people didn’t want to spend two months working at trying to get one rep of something. I can speak to that firsthand. I mean, I worked on it for what 1213, weeks. There’s a move called the Impossible Possible, which is aptly named. And I didn’t, I wasn’t able to crank out one rep until about week 11. And I got to two reps on week 12, and that was like the hugest victory. And have the mental strength

Zack Arnold: To be able to live with the fact that you fail for 10 weeks in a row-that’s not easy for people to deal with, but to me, like P 90 x2 is my favorite of any program that I’ve ever done, and I’ve done Les Mills combats, and I’ve done T 25 and I’ve done the whole X series, and I’ve done Power 90, and I’ve done 10 minute trainer, and P 90 x2 is like that. That’s the one that’s the closest to my heart because it’s it’s challenging and it’s different, you know. It’s it’s and it’s great if you want to do like a Spartan race or a Tough Mudder, that’s the one that I got in the best shape for one of those obstacle course races was P 90 x2

Tony Horton: Well, you know, P 90 x2 is not a body shaping program. I mean, you’re going to lose weight and get lean and certainly improve your physique, but it’s athletic training. It’s skill based training. I mean, look at PAP upper and lower. I mean, those two routines are so unique and so different and so challenging, but it’s it really is it it P 90 x2 You know, I’ve trademarked this this phrase: indoor training for the outside world. That’s what it is. It’s it’s to turn you into a better athlete. So if you’re somebody who you know really all you care about is looking good in your clothes, and you care more about the numbers on the on the scale and tape measure and dress sizes and and waistline numbers. You know, if that’s your focus, well, then of course P 90 x2 is not going to be for you. But if you’re that person who says, you know, I look good and I’m healthy, but my life is kind of boring. You know, I mean? I want to go. I want to go kayak. I want to go rock climb. I want to go ski or snowboard. I want to paddle board. You know, I want to. I want to go do things so that I can look at my life and say this is fun. Because a lot of people don’t necessarily have the jobs that they want. They don’t have the lives that they want. They’re sitting in traffic all day. They’re in the flipping cubicle. But if you have the kind of body, an athletic body, and by the way, anybody gets to have it. Some people’s journeys are longer than others. You know, it took you 11 weeks to be able to do two reps. That’s your journey, but it didn’t slow you down. Some people are naturally athletic; they’ve had it since they were a little kid. They can adapt these kind of movements relatively quickly. Others can’t, but the ones who can’t initially have. Have the better story to tell because they’ve gone from something to nothing. If you look look at Christopher, right? Here’s a kid who was supposed to die at the age of two. You know what I mean? Everything said that you’re not even going to get past 12 years old, and you know he’s an adult who’s who’s who’s made incredible and insane gains. So Jeremy Os is another one. I mean, I’m certainly one. I was a C minus student with a speech impediment who stammered and stuttered and was super shy and and was afraid of trying and doing anything. If I wasn’t good at something right away, I never did it again. I think skiing was the only thing in my life where I didn’t mind working at getting better, but everything else, you know, if everybody else was better than me, then why would I want to hang out with them and do this? And so, you know, now if I’m ever exposed to something brand new, for example, I was in Jackson Hole and I did this mountain athlete program, which is kind of a CrossFit program. And I went in there, and this pretty hardcore guy Rob is in there, and there’s a bunch of Chicago Blackhawks and some sponsored, world famous free skiers, right? All in their 20s, and they’ve been they’re they’re starting day one, week six, and a friend of mine who’s been going for a while. She’s 44 younger than I am, but you know, older than the rest of them. But then, of course, she’s the only woman who’s climbed the seven summits and skied their faces, so she’s kind of a badass. And so you know, I’m a pretty fit guy. I got a pretty well-rounded fitness, but this space, this instruction, this sequence of exercises was brand new to me. And so I walk in and I look at this guy right in the face and I said, “Hey, Rob, guess what, dude? I’m fired up to be here. All these people have been here for six weeks. It’s my first day. So your job, for me, you know, man to man, is to make sure I don’t walk out of here injured.

Tony Horton: That’s it, because I’m here all week and I want to enjoy the week and I want to go, you know, I want to ski and I want to have a good time. So you can’t screw me up. He kind of looked at me like, okay. So if there’s something that I feel like I can’t do or I need to modify it, I’m going to do it. And I came out of there pretty sore, but I didn’t come out of there hurt because I didn’t let my ego get in the way of the process. Same thing with UCLA, the track. When I go to the track on Sundays, you know Malachi Davis and Tasha Danvers are both my coaches, both former Olympians, and I said, “Look, I’m 56, man, and I don’t, I don’t sprint ever, but I’m willing to learn about the process and the prep and the stretching and the flexibility and all the exercises required to be able to get on the track and run, you know, 70-five to 80-5% of my speed, or maybe you know, on a time trial day, run as fast as I can without blowing out my Achilles, my calf, and my hamstrings like I’ve done in the past. And so sometimes you got to swallow your humble pie, man, and learn from from people who know more than you do, and work on your weaknesses, and that’s what Jeremy Yost did. That’s what Christopher’s done, and that’s what that’s what makes for a life that you can’t even imagine that’ll blow your mind.

Zack Arnold: Right now, you use the word modify, right? And that’s a big word that I think a lot of people don’t realize is is a part of your philosophy. Because if they just see the P 90x infomercial, they’re like, I can’t do that. That’s crazy. I’m not going to do push-ups and pull-ups, but that’s a really big word that you use in every program that I appreciate because there are a lot of times when I’m like, “Well, I can’t do that, so I need to do the modification. So I want to talk about that, but what I also want to talk about is your new program, and I’m immensely excited about this one. And people have said, “Why are you excited about it? It’s not even going to be that hard for you. You’ve done all the P90Xs. And I said, “Because it can help a lot more people and open doors that I can’t open now. So, talk to me a little bit about P90.

Tony Horton: Well, on the modification thing first, you know, I did an interview a little while back, and I said, “What what is it about P90X? Why did it sell so many copies, half half a billion dollars worth of copies, and I said there’s three things in there that don’t exist in other programs, and we talked about the first one, which is variety, variety, variety, variety. You know, we call it muscle confusion, and so you know it’s a term that we made up that explains what it is, and it’s just variety in fitness. So it’s not you know it’s not weightlifting, it’s not yoga, it’s not Pilates. It’s not just those things. It’s all of those things, and so the boredom, the injuries, and the plateaus are destroyed as a result of creating that variety. If you look at, you know, not to say that there’s anything wrong with with any of the other programs that Beachbody has provided, but Segi’s Body Beast is weight training. I mean, there’s some little bit of plyo in there, and there’s you know, but it’s it’s not a fat burning program. And you look at Chalene’s program; it’s kind of a choreographed boxing cardio program. Super fun, burns a ton of calories. People love it, but it’s you know it’s kind of one or two things, Sege is one or two things. Sean’s programs are are one or two things. All of them awesome. All of them effective. But I, you know, people do P 90x you know freaking 20 times because you can do the lean version and you can do the you know the mass version. You can do the doubles version. There’s a lot. Ways of doing it, but you know, of the of the three things that matter, modifications is one of them. I mean, there has to be. I mean, for a Jeremy Osher, Richard Neal, or a Kathy McDonald, you know, who are big people, they need that, and a lot of programs don’t offer that. I mean, all of our trainers have modifiers now, whereas before they did, and and you know, I mean, I’m not, I’m not afraid to share that philosophy to people. You have to, because if you’re looking at shiny, happy people with perfect bodies and perfect hands and smiles and nobody’s sweating on screen, you look up there and go, “I don’t. Which is the way it’s been forever. This choreographed view of perfection-that’s not 98 of the people. So you’re going to sell to 2% of the people. Every everybody else is just going to be pissed off, right? So now you’ve got real people showing you versions that you can do. Yay!

Zack Arnold: Yeah, and there’s nothing that makes you feel better when you’re watching the video and the guy in the back can’t squeak out the last medicine ball push-ups, and you’re like, okay, I don’t feel like such an ass because I couldn’t do it either, but he couldn’t, and I like the fact that you guys don’t cut that stuff out. No, man, we

Tony Horton: Don’t cut anything out. Like that, where Jeremy and I are having like that stability ball push-up contest. He totally kicks my ass. You know, I mean, on that particular day, you know, he was at the top of his game. He was feeling good. It wasn’t like, all right, Jeremy, you got to do three less than Tony because you know he’s the lead guy in the video. We just work out. We just work out, and I don’t claim to be you know Jack Lane meets Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don’t. I mean, I’m just a guy who works out really hard and can do a lot of pretty cool things. But sometimes people are better than me. So what? You know what I mean? I mean, whatever. It’s I’m thrilled for them. I mean, it’s great for them. You know, and I guess the other aspect too, just to tap into that, and I think the reason why the programs work, you know, obviously modification next is is that I, you know, like to have some fun, and we tell jokes and we interact, and all the other people are mic’d and they say what they want to say when they want to say it, and it’s a real exchange between real friends who are in there having fun and working hard. So modifications, variety, and turn hard workouts into fun. That’s the reason why we’ve sold half a billion copies. But to your second question, P 90. Now, you know, I think the timing for P 90 is perfect because you know if you look at 10 minute trainer, a lot of there’s a lot of people. As as effective as it is, as as amazing as it’s been for a lot of people, you know, you could advertise to your blue in the face and explain to people what it is, but there’s always going to be skepticism about everything. Everybody’s skeptic because it’s new. If I don’t, if I wasn’t born with it, if I didn’t learn it in school, if my parents didn’t share it with me, if my peers haven’t experienced it, then I’m assuming that it’s crap, you know. And okay, well, fine. Then you can continue to be miserable and overweight and suffer and have have a small life. So, but then again, if somebody’s done 10 in a trainer and you know them, and the and the results came and they’ve kept the weight off for a couple years, you’re going to go. Wait, I think I need to look into that. But that that’s not everybody’s experience, right? So, then now the other end of the spectrum. Okay, P 90 x2 It’s an athlete skill based functional fitness program. That’s not me. I hate exercise. I hate it. I hated it in high school. I hate it now. I hate it. I understand that I’m unhealthy and miserable, and I’ve got too many meds, and I need to make some changes, or I’m going to die before my time. That I do know, but 10 minute trainer, nah, it’s not going to work because I don’t. I don’t have any personal experiences with anybody that’s had success. P 90x I don’t have an hour. I, you know, they don’t know about modifications. They don’t know about the fact that it’s fun. They don’t know that there’s a ton of variety. They don’t even want to work that hard. And so, you know, where’s the sweet spot? That sweet spot’s in the middle between those two. And what is P 90? It’s basically a updated, very updated version of Power 90. Now, Power 90, we did that over 15 years ago. It’s the

Zack Arnold: And the shorts prove it,

Tony Horton: And the shorts prove it, and they’re coming back, man. Look at those short shorts, dude. Nice coming back. Not quite as short, but yeah. So I was younger then, but that’s all I knew. You know, I mean, it was four DVDs. There was a there was a resistance one and two, and a cardio one and two, and you did you did the one resistance and the one cardio for as long as you kind of felt like you wanted to. Very arbitrary, of course, which was sort of stupid, but that’s all we knew. You know, I mean, people would say, “I don’t know when to go from one to two. When one becomes familiar and my jokes get boring. Boom! Then you you jump into two. But this is this is this is very different. You know, we’ve got rid of the power and we’re just calling it P 90, right? It’s sort of an acronym, but it’s a rebirth of an old program that worked really really well for a couple million people. And the difference here is it’s not arbitrary now. It’s not four discs. It’s 16. It’s still six days a week, but they come in three separate phases: 30-day phases, month after month after month. A, B, and C. So there’s cardio A, sculpt A, cardio B, sculpt B. And so on, and they’re also different in the sense that the intensity is slowly ramped up. The movements themselves are are more basic. They’re not, you know, they’re not. Well, I don’t want to use the word choreographed, but they’re unlike P 90 x2 where oh yeah, I can do a bicep curl. Oh, I can do a lunge and a bicep curl. You know, it’s it’s sort of getting back to basics a little bit, and the other beautiful thing too is we slowly ramp up the the intensity over the course month and month to month. But the first workouts are basically the first 30 days are around 25 minutes, and 25 minutes is is you know I mean look at T 25 great success with that program 25 minutes is is really great, but from my personal experience, and as you move forward, it helps that you add a little bit more intensity, add a little bit more range of motion, and add a little bit more time to the workouts. So you go from 25 minutes the first month to 35 the second to 45 which all of them are shorter than any P 90x workout at 55 plus minutes, right? That flipping yoga routines are you know 93 minutes long,

Zack Arnold: And it’s actually a great yoga routine now.

Tony Horton: Oh, you know, I mean, I’m I’m not a yoga instructor. I’m a big fan of yoga. I’ve done yoga for oh my god 1718, years, maybe longer. But a lot of you know a lot of yogi types, people who are you know real aficionados in this in this area, do that routine, and I get high marks. So yeah, and

Zack Arnold: You and you should. I studied yoga, and still am have done it for years, and meditation, and it’s something that I introduce into my challenge groups. And at first, they’re like, “Well, wait, what are you talking about? And I’m like, “This is a huge part of overall wellness. It’s not just how many burpees can you do, although that is part of it. But you know, it has to be well-rounded, just wellness. Like it’s, it’s what I keep trying to impart on people is that the Western medical system is teaching us how to fix our symptoms or cover our symptoms, right? And what we’re trying to do is create wellness by preventing illness, and I think that yoga and meditation are a huge, huge component of that.

Tony Horton: Well, you know, you you certainly you’ve read the big picture, and you know what I talk about when it comes to to letting the pendulum swing in the other direction. And we need to have balance. People don’t have balance, you know. So, and the the funny thing is, the reason why people get hurt, and the reason why they can’t, they they you know they crap out on day 30 or day 60 or day 70 or after the first round they stop, is because they’re missing the other half of the equation. You know, people say to me, “What is what is the key to maintaining and sustaining? And I say, you know, it’s it’s variety, it’s consistency, it’s certainly a certain amount of intensity. But I think you know the fourth leg of that stool is rest and relaxation.

Zack Arnold: All right, so I’m. I need you to do me a bit of a favor. Okay, I need you to help me out here. I’m a huge fan and daily user of Shakeology, and it has really changed the way that I feel, changed my digestion, everything that it says, it does. It does, right? But I get a lot of people that are like, “Well, it looks interesting, but it just costs too much. So, can you please just put this to rest for me?

Tony Horton: Well, you know, it’s about information and it’s about disseminating information. So, I guess your job would be to help people understand basically what it is and what that cost equates to. You know, so you’re either going to pay now, you’re going to pay later, right? So, you know, I understand that it comes out to about three plus dollars a shake, but you know, show me a meal that has that much nutrition in it that is close to three plus dollars per. It’s just you know, you have to understand that every time you sit down to a meal, even if it’s at McDonald’s at Burger King or Kentucky Fried Chicken and one of these places that makes food that’s filled with you know fat, sugar, salt, and chemicals that’s going to kill you before your time. You know you’re willing to spend whatever 567, $8 eating that garbage, and it’s it’s really beginning to understand the importance of knowing the difference between the two, and the reason why people choose that nasty food, that comfort food that they’ve been eating for years, that was probably introduced to them in their schools and by their parents, because it’s changed in the last you know 30 years when it comes to eating normal, healthy, nutritious food that our great great great grandparents ate automatically because that’s all there was, and they knew how to cook it. They knew how to spice it. It didn’t matter whether it was Indian food or Italian food or Mexican food. You know, some cultures have healthier choices than others, but nobody has spice racks anymore in the house, and they don’t know how to cook it, and they don’t not want to spend the time, and they don’t know how to make healthy food taste good, and so they gravitate to all that crap. And so, when the wheels start coming off as early as their mid 30s, and their health starts going to going to hell in a hand cart, and now they’re spending you know all kinds of money on on doctors and meds, and and they can’t go anywhere. Or do anything because all right, they’ve got 5060, 100 pounds on them now. You know, it’s an investment in the quality of your life. That’s what I say. What Shakeology is? It’s an investment in the quality of your life. It’s got this densely nutritious wad of ingredients at three plus dollars a pop that has changed a lot of people’s lives. I mean, from the basics of of helping you lose weight to being able to change your brain chemistry because of the ingredients that gives you the enthusiasm to be able to take on six days’ work of exercise, improve the quality of your sleep, be able to heal faster, and to be able to have the energy to move to the next level in your life. Now you know everybody says, “Okay, that’s all going to be in a powder and in a jar that I’m going to drink once a day. You know, I mean, I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you a story, man. And when I hear these stories, it blows my mind. My my buddy Judd, who’s local, his mother was very very ill. She she was completely immobile. She was overweight, but not grossly overweight. But you know, she was taking lots of meds for a myriad of issues. And now Judd was a bodybuilding guy, a weightlifting guy. Didn’t know anything about Beachbody, and his buddy Mike Ryan, local two, said to to Judd, he said, you know, dude, and he was a coach, and he was doing really well, and you know, having some success because he struggled with business prior because of the recession. Then he got a hold of Beachbody, and now you know he’s just a he’s just a monster. And he said, “Look, I know your mother’s in rough shape, and I’ve heard a lot of amazing things about what Shakeology’s done. Just he gave he gave Judd you know two two jugs of it. She said, “Just just make her drink this every day. Well, I mean, what’s the harm in that? I mean, you can read the ingredients, you can go on the website, you can look to see what it is. Boom, and Judd’s like Beachbody stuff, working out in your house and drinking some magic formula.

Tony Horton: I mean, you know, people love to have opinions about things they know nothing about, but somewhere within Mike’s rhetoric, he was able to convince Jud to get his mother to drink this stuff. He goes, “All right, well, look, she’s in a terrible way. We’ll do it for a week. She’s drinking Shakeology. She’s not working out, not doing nothing. I don’t even know if she changed her diet. And so Jud’s dad calls him and says, “Jud, your mother is vacuuming. What? And you know, you hear that, and you go, “Okay, so what? His his mother had no propensity to do housework at all, zero zip, zilch, nothing, right? And so she’s just drinking Shakeology, and all of a sudden, she has the energy to start caring. She has the energy to start caring about the simple things about cleaning the house, boom, whatever. I don’t know what it was. Two, three weeks later, your mother’s out in the yard, like hosing things down, stuff. She’s in the garden, you know. So this is a big deal, man. I mean, this is a big deal from a woman who felt like, okay, I’m at death’s door, and I understand that, and this is how the final days of my life are going to be, and you know, kind of a burden on the rest of her family. Now she’s cleaning house and out in the yard. You know, I mean, hosing down the roof. You know, I mean, it’s it’s crazy. So Judd is so blown away by this, and so you know, Mike’s now. Like, yeah, I had a feeling that might happen. They go to a Beachbody coach event, right? And at that point, you know, she says, “Look, I think this stuff is working. I don’t know why. You know, I’m not a scientist. All I know is my mom who had a lot of problems, and I don’t have as many problems. And so they go to a coach event, and Mike gets up there and they talk about it. And there are people up on stage who are exercising, doing P90X and and Turbo Fire and Les Mills Pump or whatever it is. You know, 100 pound way less stories. And you know, it’s such an eye opener. It’s such a, I like this English term, a gobsmacker when you’re there in front of real people who aren’t in an infomercial, who have nothing to sell, who are just telling their story about how their life is 3 trillion times better, and so they’re seeing one, you know, one story after another, people just getting on stage. I lost 80 pounds. I lost 100 pounds, and so Jud’s mother turned to Jud and said, “I don’t have 100 pounds. So those these people were in much worse shape than I am. You think I can do P 90x Well, anyway, two and a half trips through P 90x I don’t know what where she is now, what program she’s on now, but you know, here’s a woman who couldn’t even get out of her chair in the morning is now doing P 90x and is an example to other people. Oh, I don’t know. Is she a good example of why Shakeology is a pretty good product to kind of sometimes kickstart people’s improved lives? I would say so. So you know, look, you can drag a horse to water, man, but you can’t get him to drink. But but you keep dragging as many horses as possible. You just keep showing them, and and when you know when you got a story like that, like Judge Mom, then it’s easy, you know. I mean, because that’s a real thing. It’s not like a made up thing. It’s a real thing that happened to a real person who has a better life. Right. I mean, we’re here. Look, dude, my dad just passed away, and. And you know he’s 80 years old. That’s a pretty good run. His parents lived, who smoked and drank into the mid 80s. His great grandparents lived to be 9090 plus 100 Like, why did my father father die at a younger age than his parents and grandparents’ lifestyle? Because genetically he was set up. He was set up. So you know, people people go, ah, 80 years old. That’s pretty awesome. He he should have lived to be 95 Easy. He had 15 more years.

Tony Horton: Easy. And when my mother passed away, you know, he started drinking again, and he started eating poorly, and you know, he should still be here. But you know, too many people are are making some crappy choices, and if all you have to do is is drink a glass of Shakeology once a day to improve your odds, I don’t know why you wouldn’t do it. Regardless, even though it’s $3 $3 plus per. I mean, good grief!

Zack Arnold: Well, what what’s absurd to me is that people have been saying for years, well, I don’t have time to make a big salad every day and go out and eat nutritiously. Can’t they just make something easy, and then they make something easy, and they’re like, “Well, this can’t work, and this is too expensive. Like

Tony Horton: You got something else to bitch about. Some people just like the bitch.

Zack Arnold: Yeah,

Tony Horton: You know. Some people just look. You either see the problem, you see the solution, and you either accept the the things that you need to do to to follow through with the solution, or you just sit in the mire of the problem, I mean, you know, either the damn glass is half full or half empty. A Shakeology glass is full of possibilities, man, and so you have to decide. You really have to decide. I mean, look, I go to events and I say to people, “Look, I’m not a Shakeology salesman. Look, do I do I push our bars? Our bars suck. Our bars are emergency only food. I wouldn’t eat one of our bars as a meal replacement if you force me to.

Zack Arnold: Virtual high five. I feel the same way. I mean, you know,

Tony Horton: One of these days we’ll get our head out of our ass and we’ll start making better bars. I’m glad

Zack Arnold: You agree with that. You know

Tony Horton: What I mean? Look, but Shakeology, sorry, that stuff’s money, and and it works really well, and it’s changed a lot of lives. I’m sure Beachbody loves when they hear that I, you know, I bash the bars, but

Zack Arnold: Maybe it’ll get a moving. Well, we only give us more stuff. We only hope so, man. Well, as long as we’re on the the topic of diet, I know that you’re going to have to get out soon. But talk a little bit about your your kitchen.

Tony Horton: Well, this is great, man. Thank you. You know, a lot of people in my position, you know, in their careers, they they hang their hat on one hook, and you know, they have a good run, and when the whole thing’s dead in the water, our dog Benny’s here. He definitely wants up on the couch. You’re gonna have to-he’s sniffing around. But you know, the one thing about what I’ve tried to do with my career is-is you know, look at what I’ve been able to create with Beachbody and see if I can build on that out outside of Beachbody. So I’m trying to build my own Tony Horton brand, and you know, I understand the biggest conundrum for most people when it comes to their health and wellness is food. Food has always been the problem. It’s been the cause of the problem. It’s the reason why the problem gets worse. Is because we can’t figure out how to make healthy food taste good. We don’t want to eat really healthy food most of the time. We’re addicted to all this garbage. And so what I did was I tried to create a home delivery food service called Tony Horton Kitchen. And if you live in the continental United States, you know we don’t we don’t deliver to Hawaii and Alaska, but down here on the other 40-eight. If you want healthy whole food, if you want free-range chicken, if you want grass-fed beef, buffalo, and bison, if you want wild fish, if you want organic vegetables, if you want paleo, vegan, flexitarian, whatever you want, you want it five days a week. You want it seven days a week. We deliver you to your door. Now, is it cheap? The meals run nine to $14 a pop. Now you know $14 for a meal three times a day. Oh my god, I can’t afford that. Right. So it’s not for everybody. But what a lot of people do is they do it for two weeks. They do it for two weeks to kind of kickstart their dietary shift. They hate cooking. They hate shopping for healthy food. They all of it. They don’t. They’re not into any of it. So they cheat, beg, borrow, and steal. They eat fast food. They, you know, they’re always calling some delivery service, whatever it is. But this is just sort of sort of a kickstart for some people. We’ve had some people who have been on it for two years straight, you know, and so they do the vegan one five days a week, cheaper meals, and then on the weekends they kind of go and enjoy themselves, right? So we’ve had tremendous success with that, and we’re really fired up that it’s doing pretty well. But because of it, and you know, I’m announcing this right here right now with you, is that, and I was at the launch party yesterday at CBS Studios in in Studio City. Tony Horton Kitchen and 711 are pairing up, and we’re going to have Tony Horton Kitchen in 111 stores in Southern California, mostly North Hollywood and the Valley, San Fernando Valley, and then hopefully we’ll move to the west side, and then you know from 100 stores to 1000 stores to you know all 10,000 stores across the country,

Zack Arnold: And hopefully every post production office in our industry.

Tony Horton: Well, look, you know, I mean, not everybody has a 711 around the corner, but a lot of people do, and so Seven Elevens are smack dab in the middle of food deserts all over this country, and a lot. People in those areas who walk in who are you know it’s it’s a it’s a bag of Doritos and a six pack of beer or some Red Bull and and a hot dog or a pizza and whatever you know it’s comfort food and that’s fine once in a while but I think it’s pretty ballsy for a $17 billion company like 711 to say you know what maybe we maybe we’ve been part of the problem for a while, and we want to now you know make a big shift to make it part of the part of the solution. So the food that you get delivered to your house is very different. You know what I mean? We’re talking stews and goulashes, and and you know eat most of it with a with a spoon, not all of it, but not the salmon, of course. But but this is different, you know, because you’re trying to put whole fresh food on a shelf in a convenience store. So now we have four pressed juices, we have two wraps, two salads, and two sandwiches, and it’s low glycemic. It’s high fiber. It’s got tons and tons of flavor. And at the launch party yesterday, we had the franchisees, 111 of them, at the CBS studios and they were raving, raving, raving about the food. So fingers crossed. Hope to die. You know the problem really will be. It’ll be my responsibility and 711 responsibility to be able to have more interviews like this. You know we’ll have the local media out to talk about it and say because you’re going to walk into 711 and you’re used to getting the same thing all the time. You’re going to see THK on a shelf in 711 and go, what the hell is that? I don’t know what that is-a sandwich or a salad or a pressed juice. I want my Red Bull and Doritos, man. And so it might not be successful in all the stores, but I know certain people will will really dig it, and and it’s very exciting, man. It’s it’s it’s the other half of the equation, which is vital. So if there’s a 711 near you and you’re doing P 90x or x2 or x3 and you’re saying the food thing’s the hardest part. Well, you’ll be blown away at the cost. The sandwiches are five bucks, man. The wraps, the salads, the sandwiches are five bucks, and they’re friggin’ awesome. And and the juices are a not quite half as cheap as you would see any pressed juice, but these are-I mean, we’re talking apple, lime, kale, coconut water. I mean, that’s it. There’s nothing else, and the glycemic indexes are super low, and they’re as much vegetable as they are fruit. A lot of them, and the combinations. Man, we took a lot of time to come up with the right combinations in the flavor, and people were just going nuts over them yesterday. So,

Zack Arnold: Well, I commend I commend you on on the way that you’re trying to to change food as as well as fitness. I know you got to go, so I’ve got a really quick lightning round. I know you like lightning lightning

Tony Horton: Round. I’ll try to be fast in my answers. Go Zack Go.

Zack Arnold: First question: Do you still use a paper desk calendar?

Tony Horton: I do, but I also use my calendar on my computer. I use both. Fantastic. Two, I can’t lose.

Zack Arnold: Favorite Tony Hortonism.

Tony Horton: Do your best and forget the rest, man. I mean that applies to anything, anytime, all the time.

Zack Arnold: When will you be incorporating Ab Works into the P 90x series?

Tony Horton: Ab Works. What do you mean? Ab Works, that machine that not a shot. Oh, Ab works, the old Nordic track. Where

Zack Arnold: The the place where Tony Horton started Ab Works.

Tony Horton: Oh my! Well, you know, until I can find those those pink tights and that cut off tank shirt that I was wearing and that flock of seagulls haircut, when I can pull that off again, you might see it.

Zack Arnold: Well, I can guarantee you that I will have a link to the YouTube video in the show notes.

Tony Horton: Oh, excellent! I’ve

Zack Arnold: Done my homework.

Tony Horton: Yes, I can tell. I can tell. All

Zack Arnold: Right. Well, this has been an absolute immense pleasure to to do this, and hopefully we can do it again sometime. So, thank you so much for sitting down with me. This has been great,

Tony Horton: Zack. It’s been fun. Great questions. I think we’ve helped a lot of people, and you know, your purpose is now the same purpose I have, and that is giving more people purpose, and that’s got to feel good. Thank you.

Zack Arnold: Awesome. Thank you, sir.

Zack Arnold

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Tony Horton, the Mastermind Behind P90X

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